Question: Next archetype

J1NG

I can do things others can't...
What is that for Monk, or are you talking up a story? (Source)
No one knows. However, the Dragon Disciple name can apply to Sorceror or Monk, where the former was a direct name (3e and 3.5e), and for the latter, is a newer 5e name.

Given how DDO has implemented and dropped content that matches up with the latest (or near latest DnD PnP ruleset), there's a decent chance of it being a Monk Archetype and it's the known one that's availeble next Feb (2025). If there's anything earlier, we certainly wouldn't know about it.

J1NG
 

Smokewolf

Well-known member
No one knows. However, the Dragon Disciple name can apply to Sorceror or Monk, where the former was a direct name (3e and 3.5e), and for the latter, is a newer 5e name.

Given how DDO has implemented and dropped content that matches up with the latest (or near latest DnD PnP ruleset), there's a decent chance of it being a Monk Archetype and it's the known one that's availeble next Feb (2025). If there's anything earlier, we certainly wouldn't know about it.

J1NG
Honestly, I'd not in favor of a new Monk Archetype. My justification is that over the years, Monks have had so many issues from cumulative nerfs that adding something new could require more of the same. Thus possibly hurting other classes in the process. Just with how every Sorc nerf, hurts other casting classes in often unforeseen ways. Such that the dev's are unwilling to roll back after the fact.
 

Aelastiar

Well-known member
Green star adept and make it a wizard archetype. Both classes have no use at end game so they will complement each other nicely.
 

Contessor

Well-known member
Green star adept and make it a wizard archetype. Both classes have no use at end game so they will complement each other nicely.
I was thinking wizards might have more utility value now than sorcs at end game. I mean DPS on most casters is horrible. Sorcs do have better casting speed, but lower DCs than wizards, less overall defenses and limited spell book.

But I do like wild mage, not because it makes sorc better, just a flavor thing.

Also sorc can be eliminated from a possibility since they have an archetype. Monk (most likely) or possibly wizard. Can’t see a dragon disciple fit anywhere else, where an archtype isn’t already assigned to another class. Unless they start working on the premium classes. Then maybe FVS or possibly even an alchemist.

I would personally love to see rogue as the next archetype, but I can’t see dragon disciple fit there.
 

KeithUs Jr.

I don't work for SSG- I pay their bills.
None... I hope. I'm dreading the day they somehow release Archetype Past Lives Completion.. as I skipped most of them since I'm already 3x Heroic Comp. Also dreading the inevitable Iconic PL Completion feat.. though I only have 4ish more to go of those until being 3x comp.
 

KeithUs Jr.

I don't work for SSG- I pay their bills.
None... I hope. I'm dreading the day they somehow release Archetype Past Lives Completion.. as I skipped most of them since I'm already 3x Heroic Comp. Also dreading the inevitable Iconic PL Completion feat.. though I only have 4ish more to go of those until being 3x comp.
Also, don't even get me started on Legendary Past Lives.......
 

Matuse

Join Date: February 2006
My bet for Dragon Disciple is a Monk archetype. They'll remove the Ninja Spy tree (and not replace the incorporeal click, so monks will lose a lot of defense), and put in a kind of amped up elemental strike tree where you select a dragon color and those element strikes do a bunch of stuff.
 

Tyrande

Well-known member
My bet for Dragon Disciple is a Monk archetype. They'll remove the Ninja Spy tree (and not replace the incorporeal click, so monks will lose a lot of defense), and put in a kind of amped up elemental strike tree where you select a dragon color and those element strikes do a bunch of stuff.
My bet is not the removal of the Ninja Spy tree since it does not align with spell like activities. My bet is the removal of the other tree, Henshin Mystic and replace it with Dragon Disciple, and the spell like strikes are all using Ki with any centered weapon, So kamas, handwraps, shurikens, short swords (with Basic Ninja training), longswords (with Whirling Steel Strike), and longbow (with Zen Archery) and quarterstaff. Perhaps dragon disciple contains unarmed claw attacks, tail spins and breath weapon?

There's no reason that Ninjas can't be Dragon Disciples.

Look at the recent Wu Kong (PC & PS5) movie, he's using a stick like quarterstaff: Jing Gu Bang; floating on a lightning cloud. Go with the month of August blue dragon wings... hmmmm... very likely Henshin Mystic is gone.
 

Tyrande

Well-known member
I was thinking wizards might have more utility value now than sorcs at end game. I mean DPS on most casters is horrible. Sorcs do have better casting speed, but lower DCs than wizards, less overall defenses and limited spell book.

But I do like wild mage, not because it makes sorc better, just a flavor thing.
Personally I dislike wild mage being a sorcerer archetype. It took away the sorcerer defenses and HP from EK tree and replaced it with fluff.
IMHO, Wild Mage should have been given to the wizard and replace the Arch Mage tree since alot of players complained that it is bad...
and wizard got most defenses from the Palemaster tree...

and give Dragon Disciple to the Sorcerer, this replacing the EK tree is making more sense. But in 3.x e, Dragon Disciple can be any casting class that can cast arcane spells without preparation, i.e. sorcerers and bards.
Also sorc can be eliminated from a possibility since they have an archetype. Monk (most likely) or possibly wizard. Can’t see a dragon disciple fit anywhere else, where an archtype isn’t already assigned to another class. Unless they start working on the premium classes. Then maybe FVS or possibly even an alchemist.

I would personally love to see rogue as the next archetype, but I can’t see dragon disciple fit there.
Nah, not FvS, not alchemist. FvS is not an arcane spellcaster, and alchemist is a caster that needs preparation; I wouldn't consider it arcane though. Rogue? it is doing fine as the highest melee or ranged DPS damage dealer in the game.
 

Uska

Founder
My bet is not the removal of the Ninja Spy tree since it does not align with spell like activities. My bet is the removal of the other tree, Henshin Mystic and replace it with Dragon Disciple, and the spell like strikes are all using Ki with any centered weapon, So kamas, handwraps, shurikens, short swords (with Basic Ninja training), longswords (with Whirling Steel Strike), and longbow (with Zen Archery) and quarterstaff. Perhaps dragon disciple contains unarmed claw attacks, tail spins and breath weapon?

There's no reason that Ninjas can't be Dragon Disciples.

Look at the recent Wu Kong (PC & PS5) movie, he's using a stick like quarterstaff: Jing Gu Bang; floating on a lightning cloud. Go with the month of August blue dragon wings... hmmmm... very likely Henshin Mystic is gone.
Hope not I use Henshin I never use ninja
 

Terranigma

Well-known member
For Dragon Disciple, these are the Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 and 5.0 (Way of the Dragon) abilities and traits we might see translated into a DDO Dragon Disciple archetype:

3.5
  • Increased Natural Armor
  • Bonus Spells - This translates to more Spellpoints in DDO
  • Claw and Bite - Extra strikes with natural weaponry
  • Breath Weapon - CON-based DC
  • Ability Boost - Increases to STR, CON, INT
  • Blindsense - Negates the need to make Spot/Listen checks for foes and bypasses some Concealment sources. Works out to 30 feet
  • Wings - Effectively Abundant Step or other Wing Leaps we already have
  • Dragon Apothesis - Become half-dragon. Immune to Sleep and Paralysis. Immune to your dragon's energy type.

5.0
  • Draconic Presence - Reroll Intimidation or Persuasion (or in DDO, Bluff) failures
  • Draconic Strike - Unarmed Strike deals Fire/Cold/Lightning/Acid/Poison damage
  • Tongue of Dragons - Speak/Read/Write Draconic. Generally not a thing in DDO, but might be interesting to add as a bypass for optionals relating to dragons, such as the Litany of the Dead riddle or to ask Aussircaex for her treasure without fighting here in Prey on the Hunter.
  • Breath of the Dragon - Energy Breath attack. Can use Ki to use extra times
  • Wings Unfurled - A flight ability that would translate to a Leap in DDO
  • Frightful Presence - Aura to frighten foes
  • Resistance Aura - Nearby allies have increased resistance against Fire/Cold/Lightning/Acid/Poison
  • Blindsight - Similar to 3.5's Blindsense, but only out to 10 feet
  • Explosive Fury - Selected targets in your aura take energy damage

A lot of that stuff (especially the Claw and Bite, along with Draconic Strike) lends itself well to Monk, so I would expect Dragon Disciple to be a Monk Archetype. I did a theorycraft writeup on what a potential design of the archetype could look like.
 

Darkwolfer2002

Well-known member
I hate asymmetry so I'm hoping they do one for every class before doing a 2nd archetype for any other. Most likely Dragon Disciple will be Monk but SSG never stops surprising me with random things. That being said we still need Wizard, Rogue, Artificer, Alchemist, Favored Soul, and Barbarian besides Monk.
Honestly, I can see them twisting almost any of those to make some sort of sense. I liked the original pace and am kind of disappointed we only got one this last time. I get not handing them out for free though.
 

misterski

Well-known member
I hate asymmetry so I'm hoping they do one for every class before doing a 2nd archetype for any other. Most likely Dragon Disciple will be Monk but SSG never stops surprising me with random things. That being said we still need Wizard, Rogue, Artificer, Alchemist, Favored Soul, and Barbarian besides Monk.
Honestly, I can see them twisting almost any of those to make some sort of sense. I liked the original pace and am kind of disappointed we only got one this last time. I get not handing them out for free though.
One of the devs posted on the old forums that they are not beholden to "symmetry". They may release archetypes for classes that already have them before they release one for each class. Just look at what they've done with races and their racial reincarnation bonuses.
 
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