raids on normal are now crazy hard?

[J1NG]

I read about dungeon alert changes in a forum thread.
do you know if it's alive now? I read all DDO release notes but I don't remember any mentioning dungeon alert changes.

I don't believe the specific changes were ever released, only that changes were made. This didn't help of course when that came days after U59 dropped, which had it's own share of changes, so the Devs being unable to track anything easily is not surprising as too many things were altered in a short time, so there's too many variables (of their own making).

J1NG

 

[Oliphant]

Do folks understand that Arcaneverse is NOT a DDO employee and happens to be our best puzzle solver??

 

[DeathTitan]

I don't believe the specific changes were ever released, only that changes were made. This didn't help of course when that came days after U59 dropped, which had it's own share of changes, so the Devs being unable to track anything easily is not surprising as too many things were altered in a short time, so there's too many variables (of their own making).

J1NG

My fear is that they are asking us to help them to realize what is causing issues, but they are not writing everything in the release notes.
For example, it's hard for me to say that a raid is now more difficult because "dungeon alert nerf changes" have been been applied: Cordovan, are there any dungeon alert changes on live servers?

I noticed playing heroic r1 with red alert more difficult, but I'm now playing with my 3rd life toon (with top equipment) instead of my full completionist toon, so I can't say that it's more difficut due to my weaker toon or due to the dungeon alert changes.

 

[KylerrTheMajty]

when you put black ants in to jar with red ants nothing happens but when you shake the jar black ants will kill red1 and red1 will kill black1 bc they take each other as enemy , the real enemy is jar shaker and we get this here with SSG ?

 

[Titus Ovid]

My fear is that they are asking us to help them to realize what is causing issues, but they are not writing everything in the release notes.
For example, it's hard for me to say that a raid is now more difficult because "dungeon alert nerf changes" have been been applied: Cordovan, are there any dungeon alert changes on live servers?

I noticed playing heroic r1 with red alert more difficult, but I'm now playing with my 3rd life toon (with top equipment) instead of my full completionist toon, so I can't say that it's more difficut due to my weaker toon or due to the dungeon alert changes.

The other thread that Arcana posted in the #3 comment is way better concerning data collcetion and possible causes than this here yelling and trashing around.
But you are right. They want more input/data but don't say what kind of Input/data is needed. Instead of engagening with the more reasonable players and do some research they might look into it on their own and then just let it get old and forgotten.
Been there, seen that.
But since I am an idiot concerning this, please do provide more data, if you have some.

Cheers,
Titus.

 

[The Narc]

My fear is that they are asking us to help them to realize what is causing issues, but they are not writing everything in the release notes.
For example, it's hard for me to say that a raid is now more difficult because "dungeon alert nerf changes" have been been applied: Cordovan, are there any dungeon alert changes on live servers?

I noticed playing heroic r1 with red alert more difficult, but I'm now playing with my 3rd life toon (with top equipment) instead of my full completionist toon, so I can't say that it's more difficut due to my weaker toon or due to the dungeon alert changes.

The answer is yes dungeon alert changes were made on live servers, it was in a release note. There was even a post from some group that said they could do no damage to an end boss because their alert was too high. So yes dungeon alert will impact the end bosses in an end fight.

 

[JaynChar2019]

The answer is yes dungeon alert changes were made on live servers, it was in a release note. There was even a post from some group that said they could do no damage to an end boss because their alert was too high. So yes dungeon alert will impact the end bosses in an end fight.

Yes exactly this!!

 

[JaynChar2019]

-_-. Yep, things are jacked. Ok. If it wasn't clear... trying to determine precisely what is jacked.

You gave a time, which is great. Problem is, there wasn't an update on May 8th. There was an patch on the 9th which didn't have any monster or player changes that would have this kind of reach. May 3rd had the changes to dungeon alert.

Which DA changes could impact your raids that much. But that would only apply if you were getting a dungeon alert which you still haven't confirmed nor denied.

Also, which is it? A tight nit raid group that runs raids together every day with a few regulars and is not a pug group or was tonight a raid group of first timers that you were kindly showing the way?

No one is attacking you or say they're better than you. They're mistakenly trying to help like I was by offering their own experience. Egg on my face I guess.

You are not helping if you are acting like nothing has changed. Even Cordovan himself has addressed this issue and is looking for answers as to what is causing it. I believe it was the may 9th changes they stated on the 8th that they were going to make aka dungeon alert updates because it was then that everything got jacked.

 

[DeathTitan]

The answer is yes dungeon alert changes were made on live servers, it was in a release note. There was even a post from some group that said they could do no damage to an end boss because their alert was too high. So yes dungeon alert will impact the end bosses in an end fight.

Anyone has the release notes link by the chance?

 

[Hammatimes]

Just a curiosity, are you a developer or a DDO staff member? What can you do to help exacly?

He can help troubleshoot which is literally the only productive thing that can come from a thread like this.

You are not helping if you are acting like nothing has changed. Even Cordovan himself has addressed this issue and is looking for answers as to what is causing it. I believe it was the may 9th changes they stated on the 8th that they were going to make aka dungeon alert updates because it was then that everything got jacked.

He has been trying to troubleshoot by first asking for more details because the information supplied has been very vague and confusing. The initial post says that this guild has done r4 raids but is now repeatedly failing on Normal but it is still not clear if the guild has failed the same raid on Normal that it completed on r4. It sounds more like they completed baba on r4 at some point in time and is now failing dryad on normal.

I think everyone can agree that the unicorn aggro has changed and is now causing more issues but this is much more likely to have been the result of the initial lag improvement update and not the subsequent patch that added to dungeon alert scaling. That is why the timing of these experiences is important. The souls in Hunt can damage players if they move away from souls too quickly because the trigger is a bit delayed from their actual disappearance, this could be happening more frequently now due to better responsiveness from the lag improvement update. Pinpointing details like this is what can actually help the devs solve the issues you are experiencing and improve the game we all love.

 

[JaynChar2019]

He can help troubleshoot which is literally the only productive thing that can come from a thread like this.

He has been trying to troubleshoot by first asking for more details because the information supplied has been very vague and confusing. The initial post says that this guild has done r4 raids but is now repeatedly failing on Normal but it is still not clear if the guild has failed the same raid on Normal that it completed on r4. It sounds more like they completed baba on r4 at some point in time and is now failing dryad on normal.

I think everyone can agree that the unicorn aggro has changed and is now causing more issues but this is much more likely to have been the result of the initial lag improvement update and not the subsequent hotfix that added to dungeon alert scaling. That is why the timing of these experiences is important. The souls in Hunt can damage players if they move away from souls too quickly because the trigger is a bit delayed from their actual disappearance, this could be happening more frequently now due to better responsiveness from the lag improvement update. Pinpointing details like this is what can actually help the devs solve the issues you are experiencing and improve the game we all love.

Actually I said reaper 3 raids and he upped it to 4 then started saying he sees nothing wrong on his end.

 

[JaynChar2019]

Just a curiosity, are you a developer or a DDO staff member? What can you do to help exacly?
i read in the previous posts that souls in Hunt raid are more deadly and unicorns are way more aggressive: so reduce the number of souls and their damage in Hunt raid and rollback the unicorns aggressivity in Dryad raid at hard difficulty to help random pugs with noob players to bring home those raids weekly easily.
And do that by next week wednesday.
In the meantime I'm creating and alt account to farm more easily some quests because DDO population Is dropping drammatically (and I'm on Orien).
By the way, do you agree with me that the dungeon alert change is causing only issues and no solutions to the game? Due to It my 3rd Life toon died more when zerging with alert, but what I'm doing is still zerging R1 with Red alert and pay more attention while playing (I Will still zerg with Red alert because I have to be fast for High XP per minute).

Yes thank you only issues and no solutions. Lag is worse then ever and now is the difficulty of the game as well. I mean I can't move and things hit harder and are more difficult to kill ???

 

[JaynChar2019]

He can help troubleshoot which is literally the only productive thing that can come from a thread like this.

He has been trying to troubleshoot by first asking

Yes thank you only issues and no solutions. Lag is worse then ever and now is the difficulty of the game as well. I mean I can't move and things hit harder and are more difficult to kill ???

for more details because the information supplied has been very vague and confusing. The initial post says that this guild has done r4 raids but is now repeatedly failing on Normal but it is still not clear if the guild has failed the same raid on Normal that it completed on r4. It sounds more like they completed baba on r4 at some point in time and is now failing dryad on normal.

I think everyone can agree that the unicorn aggro has changed and is now causing more issues but this is much more likely to have been the result of the initial lag improvement update and not the subsequent patch that added to dungeon alert scaling. That is why the timing of these experiences is important. The souls in Hunt can damage players if they move away from souls too quickly because the trigger is a bit delayed from their actual disappearance, this could be happening more frequently now due to better responsiveness from the lag improvement update. Pinpointing details like this is what can actually help the devs solve the issues you are experiencing and improve the game we all love.

Oh and the giant in dryad healed himself to 50% last night after we had to dance that has never happened before. Oh and dude is not looking for answers. He is just trying to brush us aside. I said reaper 3 he upped to 4 then acted like he has no issues and asks me what is different after i stated in my first post what is wrong. Issue is the may 9th update I have said since my very 1st post. You want answers MAY 9TH!!!!!!!!! May 9th may 9th May 9th. Am I making myself clear yet???? Problems started may 9th May 9th may 9th? Still unsure?? May 9th. My God have I said it enough times yet for everyone to get what is wrong? Seriously?!

 

[The Narc]

Anyone has the release notes link by the chance?

Hey DeathTitan

Here are the exact words from a Tolero post in changes to dungeon alert thread the original post from May 3rd;

Greetings!

As we look at our lag metrics since our changes last week, we have seen that one unfortunate side effect is that the player behavior of evoking high Dungeon Alert levels by moving quickly through dungeons has spiked, and that behavior is contributing to a different form of lag (the conditions that cause dungeon alert cause lag).

We have made an adjustment this morning to make this behavior less rewarding. All red named boss monsters will be buffed if you encounter them while dungeon alert is active. The buff is gentle for green and yellow, and gets more severe at higher dungeon alert levels. This means that players will have an easier time if they defeat minions before tackling red named bosses if dungeon alert is active.

(As an aside, bosses always got buffed with dungeon alert, but we have leaned more heavily into this. Bosses will take much longer to kill at higher levels of dungeon alert, so kill those minions!)

We will be looking further into modifying content that tends to provoke Dungeon Alert, and change Dungeon Alert to discourage play patterns that provoke the highest levels of Dungeon Alert for long periods of time.

 

[calouscaine]

I'll put up the things I've noticed so far with raids, and mind it's pretty minimal. But, this is my experience running since may on normal to elite.
Tier 2 and below can for the most part (depending on mechanics) be solo'd on a first lifer or run with two people. Tier three can be done if a group has solid mechanics and are geared up right and are all spec'd with decent prr and mmr with two to three people, depending on mechanics.
Tier four and five are rough, even geared up, if you are running a small group and usually equate to wipes.

For example, deity and the demi god, unicorns won't stay aggro'd and will corrupt to 100% with in less than three minutes on normal. Oh, and they spam knock down like a gatlin gun. My tiny guild will be attempting this one again in a month or two on r1 once we max out our reaper points to see if that makes a difference.

I'd love to be able to test some of the other higher end raids, but with a small team it's not very feasible since it seems that mobs have increased in size, strength, and that 220 prr and 150 mrr isn't going to cut it on normal setting, and this is with about 100 elemental resist across the board and between 20-75% absorption on most elements and damages.

I really wish they'd do something about the aggro holding in this game.

There's also the issue that occasionally when buffing or casting in some of these it seems to lag out, 3-10 seconds, by my estimation. It's not every instance, but it happens often enough that it's noticeable.

 

[JaynChar2019]

Ok my 1st life toon has 348% fort 116 prr 76 mrr 50% deflection chance and 96 AC, evasion and an a special envasion feat on gear. Also all my gear is all raid gear I made with runes. But the severe lag plus aggro increase is just ridiculous and we are experiencing whole party wipes. Everyone else in our raids are mostly multiple lifers with a few stragglers we encourage to join and have fun. Basically the game is no longer fun and is just frustrating at this point. They need to get rid of the so called fix for lag that never even worked in the first place and just made things way harder.

 

[JaynChar2019]

-_-. Yep, things are jacked. Ok. If it wasn't clear... trying to determine precisely what is jacked.

You gave a time, which is great. Problem is, there wasn't an update on May 8th. There was an patch on the 9th which didn't have any monster or player changes that would have this kind of reach. May 3rd had the changes to dungeon alert.

Which DA changes could impact your raids that much. But that would only apply if you were getting a dungeon alert which you still haven't confirmed nor denied.

Also, which is it? A tight nit raid group that runs raids together every day with a few regulars and is not a pug group or was tonight a raid group of first timers that you were kindly showing the way?

No one is attacking you or say they're better than you. They're mistakenly trying to help like I was by offering their own experience. Egg on my face I guess.

At the moment the main actionable feedback in this thread relates to whether enemies may or may not be bypassing player Fortification they were not previously, but so far nothing has turned up related to any change associated with it. If people have more information that could help lead to a result, please do let us know!

We know some of you want us to announce whether there is a bug or not, but we can't really make such a statement unless/until we have more information to base such a decision on. Could be nothing is different and it's a perception issue. Could be there's a bug that resulted in a change that so far has not been identified. Could be players were erroneously getting generous bypass and a halo to some other change made it start working correctly. The list of options goes on. At this moment there isn't really a concrete piece of evidence to make such a declaration as to whether there's a thing and what the nature of the thing is, or whether the feelings about "mobs hitting harder" actually relates to Fortification bypass.

So here you go obviously there is something wrong!! My Fortification is 348% yeah definitely a bypass by mobs going on.

 

[calouscaine]

It would be easier to test this sort of thing if we could some how take full combat logs and export them to note pad or something and send that in, i.e. detailing what exactly the npc's are doing in combat, what they're bypassing, etc.
I don't know if lamania (sp?) has something like this when it's up, and I still can't get the download for it to work, but such a feature would be very helpful in bug reporting and isolation.

 

[JaynChar2019]

Thank you for being helpful unlike others in this thread.

 

[PraetorPlato]

I can actually be helpful with fort! I spent most of a r1 dryad within the last 3 days trying to figure out what was enough fort where, because that was what was dangerous. Asked some other experienced players as well. For guardians, bear, scath, trash, and fire beetles, 290% was no fail. For chipmunk, 290% was very much NOT no fail after I'd been shredded a bit, but this was reflected in my character sheet. Not sure about king ingrlll, but that char doesn't look like a main tank, so other mobs are probably more important. There are definitely mobs that get fort bypass, but as far as I can tell, it comes in the form of tons of fort bypass on a few mobs rather than fort bypass across the board (at least once you get over 250 fort).