Rare loot + the curse system sucks. Make it suck less

Guntango

Well-known member
Yes, DDO is a game based on past lives. And before, whenever someone in my guild said here on the forum that the devs were adding too many past lives, there was always someone who responded, "It's not that important. It's easy to equip alts; most of the gear is basic."

Well, now it's not easy to equip alts anymore. Now they're even moving to making base items rare! Add to that the myriad of bonuses added by the Mythic, Reaper, and Curse systems, and the difference becomes even greater. If we consider systems like sentience taking a long time, artifacts have been BTC from the beginning and now the devs are moving to BTC rare artifacts, and there are many boosts like Ravil's Book or just a 14-ability augments that are random, and they've disrupted Randall Lyric's Tonquin system... in the end, it's a lot of small numerical differences, added up one after another, making the difference between our main and our alts HUGE. And each subsystem adds up to time to complete.

Really, if there's proof that the devs aren't playing their own game, not even to get an idea of how it feels for players... here it is.

They need to stop adding subsystem after subsystem designed for players who only have one character. Some subsystems need to be overhauled, but rare loot needs to be removed, period.
Nah. You can still gear your alts perfectly. I just wouldn’t focus on rare, boosted or perfectly cursed items. Just like you’re not sweating the past lives or RP you’re missing comparatively, max gearing sets and augments is still easily attainable without sweating boosted rare gear and bis curses.
 

Monkey_Archer

Well-known member
Rare loot and curse cleaners should drop at a rate relative to the quest difficulty. Since we only have easy zerg fest difficulties the drop rates are appropriate.

If/when we ever get higher difficulty settings then drop rates should increase accordingly.
 

Guntango

Well-known member
Rare loot and curse cleaners should drop at a rate relative to the quest difficulty. Since we only have easy zerg fest difficulties the drop rates are appropriate.

If/when we ever get higher difficulty settings then drop rates should increase accordingly.
Nah. Requiring a chest farm of 600+ times isnt ok at any difficulty. If you’re going to measure appropriate values, some basis in reality would be helpful.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Rare loot and curse cleaners should drop at a rate relative to the quest difficulty. Since we only have easy zerg fest difficulties the drop rates are appropriate.

If/when we ever get higher difficulty settings then drop rates should increase accordingly.
So loot will drop at 5x the rate whenever my warlock (or some flavor build) solos a boss. Awesome!
 

MrBill

Well-known member
I haven't logged in since October or November of 2024. While there are a few aspects of DDO I do miss, the system of engineered inconvenience isn't one of them.
love that term "engineered inconvenience" it sure applies to some wilderness areas
 

MrBill

Well-known member
Rare loot is one of the worst ideas SSG has ever had.

-If they created it to sell shards, it's a predatory mechanic they should be ashamed of. Devs, people who are paying for a subscription, the most expensive expansions, various whims (like coffers, for example), in addition to your already predatory build-changing policies (Jeweler toolkits, hearts, etc.) are starting to get very tired of being scammed.

-If they created it to get chase items, they're completely off the mark.
  • First, we're not at the final cap, so creating items that will become obsolete before being found and enjoyed is absurd.
  • Second, chase items should be items with a long lifespan that compensates for the hunt. And that means they have to be good enough to be desired, and to remain so for years, not be displaced by the next trendy thing. Or be special enough to be unique in their function.
  • Third, chase items should preferably be like jibbers (or weapons, as they've had in the past) and not items we need to build our entire gear set around; it seems like the devs don't know how the Tetris Gear they designed works! (If you change one item, devs, you have to change many other items!)
-If they created the rare tables to increase interest in the quests where they appear, they've missed the mark again. There are a lot of people who hate MD right now because they're fed up and frustrated. It's not fun, devs.

-Rare loot is poison for alts. Alts are severely penalized in the game right now, and have been for years. It's not just the stupid number of PLs that keeps increasing. They're constantly adding more and more subsystems, making the numerical gap with our mains ever greater. If you create an alt, you have to worry about the difference in PLs (an eternal grind that can last for years), reaper points (a reasonable grind to get if you do TRs, but it takes time), reaper items/fragments (you know, devs, that their rarity makes crafting reaper items an impossibility for alts, right?), mythic items (devs, do you know the difference between having your gear full-mythic and not? And that there's literally no time to hunt mythic items for multiple alts?), raid items (hey, I find this grind reasonable for alts, but it adds more time), sentience (full sentience + rare & raid filigrees take more time), btc artifacts (btc artifacts are a bad thing; btc rare artifacts are evil), cursed items (hunting for perfect cursed items is only feasible if you play a toon, really, you can't do it for several alts... if you have a life outside the game, at least), random good augments (how much lottery can a game handle before it breaks the game to pieces, devs?), and now rare items to build alts' base sets (and devs, if it's difficult to equip a main with rare items, what do you think happens with alts?).

-Rare BTC items are the height of greed and malice. Do you know, devs, what it feels like when you get a rare artifact on the wrong toon? The bad taste left by upgrading a rare item that will become BTC, leaving you with the impression that changing builds will render it useless after all the farming? Do you expect us, devs, to use your VERY overpriced Wish of Inheritance? That's the height of greed, devs. It's disgusting.


The curse card mechanic doesn't excite me; I'm not much of a lottery fan. But it's a system I can live with, taking the mentality of "I curse my items once, and maybe I'll get one or two buffs on my entire gear. Okay, I'll pass on waiting for optimized items." But I can't live with rare loot. I already pay enough for this game, devs. More than enough. I'm not free to play. I buy your content to get loot within a reasonable timeframe, not to get frustrated.
Well said. Particularly true since the great roll back a few years ago. Honestly if your not a raid equipped toon, why upgrade from Ravenloft or Sharn gear? For what 2-3 more points? A new augment slot which now is a rare item to endlessly hunt for. Or perhaps a new gear set in which you need to raid to get the last piece ? Or as you mentioned the joy of running the same quest over and over to try and not only get a mythic/ reaper bonus on a rare item?


I do have a question about loot that I've never looked into. I guess there are "loot tables" on which the rng is checked, and if high enough it then goes to the next table etc. My question is how many tables are there? And if it's say a 30% chance on any loot table, what is actual % chance of getting to the highest table ?
 

Smokewolf

Frequently banned member.
love that term "engineered inconvenience" it sure applies to some wilderness areas
A fair number of businesses use Engineered-Inconvenience (EI) as a means to "push" customers into making purchases.

Two examples:

-Airlines use convenience as a means to upcharge for everything beyond the basic seat. Hell, if it were legal, they come up with a way to turn the in-flight toilet into just another micro-transaction.

-Cell phone / Console gaming typically have their F2P games, then later bombard the player with in game purchase options. Often leaving the best aspects, features and items firmly behind a pay wall.

While these methods are proven to work, it absolutely undermines the customers long term trust and loyalty for a short-term profit. Often, at the extreme inconvenience of the customer as the purchase was not expected. Unfortunately in the Western world, this sort of Entrapment-Econony has become the norm. One that I seek to distance myself from regardless of the inconvenience I'm forced to deal with. After all, it's my (explative) money, my choice and I'd so bloody tired of being manipulated by an industry that seeks to profit for nothing.
 

Positive thinking

Well-known member
The sad part is DDO could make a mint selling actual conveniences players keep asking for. They refuse to.
This statement holds soo much potential for sucking amazing profit from those that need power, convenient ways to immediately buy power at great costs would stimulate heavy competitiveness in that spectrum of the market.

As for the cards they are great for players that are starting new and need to make a big shard purchase like a guild ship.
 

Anurakh

Little Nixie
Nah. You can still gear your alts perfectly. I just wouldn’t focus on rare, boosted or perfectly cursed items. Just like you’re not sweating the past lives or RP you’re missing comparatively, max gearing sets and augments is still easily attainable without sweating boosted rare gear and bis curses.
Of course, you can equip your alts with generic items, without reaper bonuses, with few mythic bonuses, lacking some interesting augments, etc. But that widens the gap with mains, that's my point. The difference between mains and alts grows as devs add more and more subsystems to the game, all designed for single-character players. My point is that the big difference between alts and mains isn't just due to past lives, but to the accumulation of almost a dozen subsystems, which is impossible to maintain at their maximum on multiple characters.

In the end, alts are relegated to builds and roles that function with few PLs and gear that's far, far from optimized. Can you play them? Yes. Fun? Not so much for me.

From my perspective, the devs are too busy hammering nails into the alts' coffins. They must be very worried about them reanimating as super-juju-zombies, because they're using so many nails!
 

Monkey_Archer

Well-known member
Nah. Requiring a chest farm of 600+ times isnt ok at any difficulty. If you’re going to measure appropriate values, some basis in reality would be helpful.
Reality is Time, Cost, Quality: Pick two.

You want fast quality loot, Buy astral shards for 6 accounts.
You want cheap quality loot, get on the grind wheel.
You want fast cheap loot, don't build around rare gear.

As long as loot is a monetised component of this game, you can't avoid this reality, and its likely to only get worse in time. Personally I'd prefer a real slog-fest hour+ long quest difficulty that could justify a real drop rate as opposed to grinding easy 7 minute quests as nauseam... but that's just me I suppose...
 

woq

Well-known member
Personally I'd prefer a real slog-fest hour+ long quest difficulty that could justify a real drop rate as opposed to grinding easy 7 minute quests as nauseam... but that's just me I suppose...
What do you mean just you? A lot of people would take this but this is not how quests are balanced in this game. A quest that takes an hour has similar drop rates and similar amounts of named items in their drop pool as a quest that takes 7 minutes.

Everyone and their mom prefers raid runes to ransacking a quest in 30 minutes weekly for months.
 

Positive thinking

Well-known member
Of course, you can equip your alts with generic items, without reaper bonuses, with few mythic bonuses, lacking some interesting augments, etc. But that widens the gap with mains, that's my point. The difference between mains and alts grows as devs add more and more subsystems to the game, all designed for single-character players. My point is that the big difference between alts and mains isn't just due to past lives, but to the accumulation of almost a dozen subsystems, which is impossible to maintain at their maximum on multiple characters.

In the end, alts are relegated to builds and roles that function with few PLs and gear that's far, far from optimized. Can you play them? Yes. Fun? Not so much for me.

From my perspective, the devs are too busy hammering nails into the alts' coffins. They must be very worried about them reanimating as super-juju-zombies, because they're using so many nails!
I agree with you alot, but the division isnt necessarily a bad thing.

The players with alts generally play for fun and are not to concerned with all that power and will continue to play that way with like minded people. Key is to not get sucked into being a lackey for folks in the other part of the division.

The players in the other part of the division are SSG’s goldmine, they are the ones so heavily invested that each new investment that comes out must be acquired to maintain pace, their investment is so deep that to leave will mean that they waisted all the investment they have already spent, this being the singular reason as to why they are the goldmine. I would hazard a guess that SSG has meetings with the sole purpose to figure out how to mazimize this without breaking it.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Reality is Time, Cost, Quality: Pick two.

You want fast quality loot, Buy astral shards for 6 accounts.
You want cheap quality loot, get on the grind wheel.
You want fast cheap loot, don't build around rare gear.
Or the alternative I choose, where my time moved on to other games. The cost of time(& shard/etc. alternatives) for gear exceed my sense of entertainment & fun thresholds once they added in rares; rares + mythic/reaper/curses is even further outside that scope. I still play a little bit of DDO each day, but SSG succeeded in getting me play thru my backlog of other games that I'd been tempted by in the past. It's a funny concept, but when the odds of getting the gear setup I want is near zero, it's still near zero regardless if I grind 4 hours a night or if I only play a few hours a week and spend that extra time playing other games.
 

Anurakh

Little Nixie
Everyone and their mom prefers raid runes to ransacking a quest in 30 minutes weekly for months.
This. It's crazy how much easier it is to get a ton of raid items than to get a single rare item you really want in MD!

Recently, a friend in-game was laughing because I showed him the five threat items my main was carrying (including three copies of the same orb with three different debuffs), and he said "overkill." Overkill? Not really. Much easier than getting a single artifact in MD quests!
 

Guntango

Well-known member
Reality is Time, Cost, Quality: Pick two.

You want fast quality loot, Buy astral shards for 6 accounts.
You want cheap quality loot, get on the grind wheel.
You want fast cheap loot, don't build around rare gear.

As long as loot is a monetised component of this game, you can't avoid this reality, and its likely to only get worse in time. Personally I'd prefer a real slog-fest hour+ long quest difficulty that could justify a real drop rate as opposed to grinding easy 7 minute quests as nauseam... but that's just me I suppose...
You chose 3 mediocre possibilities to suit your narrative.

There could also be the more realistic scenario imagining the exact game that exists currently, except, instead of having to farm a chest 600 times, you only have to ransack it 3 times. That would fix the current problem we're talking about without recreating 60-minute long quests that only 3 people want, and also affording some of the more casual, alt collectors a chance at rare stuff.
 
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