Rare loot + the curse system sucks. Make it suck less

[Catholicon]

Rare loot ruined gear tetris!

There simply isn't enough time to farm the gear for the build before it's time to re-build.

Back before I took an extended break from the game, I got burnt out farming Feywild for a Crown of Butterflies. And I only wanted that for the cosmetics.

If I was after something I actually needed, I'm not sure I'd even have come back.

 

[erethizon1]

I wouldn't mind rare drop table so much if mythic crafting was a thing - especially because the rare drop table armors and weapons of Myth Drannor are all used to craft raid weapons/armors which can not exist with mythic bonuses because of the nature of being crafted.
But also too much is being put on the rare drop table, if it was a single item per quest that's whatever but is there really a worse feeling than farming for a rare item and getting a completely different one instead?

Yes, it is absolutely insane that a full one-third of the loot in MD is on the rare drop table. Who on Earth thought it was reasonable for so many items to be rare?

 

[erethizon1]

Shhh, don’t let this top secret info out: DDO is a past life based game. Love your work.

Also, just increase cleaning card drop rates, add the mythic crafting system, lower reaper frag costs, and Bob’s your uncle.

And then, some of those alts might hope to benefit a bit even without past lives in a past life based game.

I'd prefer they increase the frequency with which mythic, and especially reaper, bonuses appear on gear. It sucks playing dozens of quests on high reaper and getting zero items with a reaper bonus.

 

[erethizon1]

As the level cap rises, more content becomes frivolously easy and more raids drop off the reaper list.

This is something that needs to be addressed. Now that you cannot get RXP for running epic quests if you are level 30+, they can get rid of the 6 level limit on reaper quests. If someone wants to run a level 21 quest at level 29 on reaper, let them.

But more importantly, when legendary raids start having to be run on elite because capped players are too high to enter on reaper, we have a real problem. We have a ton of legendary raids that will be more than 6 levels below the level cap of 40.

 

[erethizon1]

Well said. Particularly true since the great roll back a few years ago. Honestly if your not a raid equipped toon, why upgrade from Ravenloft or Sharn gear? For what 2-3 more points? A new augment slot which now is a rare item to endlessly hunt for. Or perhaps a new gear set in which you need to raid to get the last piece ? Or as you mentioned the joy of running the same quest over and over to try and not only get a mythic/ reaper bonus on a rare item?


I do have a question about loot that I've never looked into. I guess there are "loot tables" on which the rng is checked, and if high enough it then goes to the next table etc. My question is how many tables are there? And if it's say a 30% chance on any loot table, what is actual % chance of getting to the highest table ?

You are spot on. I still wear level 29 gear (Sharn docks and Ravenloft) at cap. The bonus is minor for higher level stuff and having to farm again isn't worth it. Maybe in 5 years I'll have a set without having to have farmed for it.

 

[Blunt Hackett]

So many games out there that don't do this. Is it Stockholm syndrome? Guildmates? Time investment? That's actually one of the reasons I soloed, so the only thing holding me here would be time and money. But time and money has gotten outweighed by the lack of respect for my time and money.

 

[Lacci]

Personally, I pretend that neither rare loot nor curse cards exist in the game.
I´ve never seen either one of these and I don´t chase them, never planned any for my builds and certainly don´t invest any money to get them...

 

[Tronko]

I've always been very critical of loot in DDO, and I believe things are getting exponentially worse. I have no problem with grinding—do I need to play 10,000 hours to get a certain item? Fine, I can do that.
The problem is that the current system has probabilities so low that obtaining the desired gear is practically unthinkable.

For a given item (which might also be a rare drop), you have to roll for mythic, reaper (with the right bonus...), and curse. That’s three different layers, and any failure or bad roll means the item is basically wasted.

They introduced reaper crafting long time ago, which could have been a good idea, but in reality, it's extremely limited.
For example, if I want melee power on bracers or boots, I have to roll the item.

Curses are a real abomination. Maybe they were meant to be a fun idea—if the bonuses were just colorful butterflies or a boost to Swim, it might have been amusing. But instead, they added a ton of power creep to curses, with bonuses like +5 MP, +2d6 Sneak, +2d6 Imbue, etc., which actually make a huge difference.

My personal experience?
1) I'm always dissatisfied with my gear setup because there's always something missing.
2) The game has become much more boring because I keep running the same quests—where before I needed one item, now I need to farm that same item hundreds of times.
3) I no longer pass decent loot to other players because I need to roll for curses on anything remotely useful for my current or future builds.
4) Some friends have gotten fed up and quit playing.

Do I spend more money? Personally, no. I would gladly spend money if they sold cleansers.

In my opinion, we badly need a system to craft mythic bonuses and a revamp of reaper crafting. And available cleansers.

 

[Guntango]

I've always been very critical of loot in DDO, and I believe things are getting exponentially worse. I have no problem with grinding—do I need to play 10,000 hours to get a certain item? Fine, I can do that.
The problem is that the current system has probabilities so low that obtaining the desired gear is practically unthinkable.

For a given item (which might also be a rare drop), you have to roll for mythic, reaper (with the right bonus...), and curse. That’s three different layers, and any failure or bad roll means the item is basically wasted.

They introduced reaper crafting long time ago, which could have been a good idea, but in reality, it's extremely limited.
For example, if I want melee power on bracers or boots, I have to roll the item.

Curses are a real abomination. Maybe they were meant to be a fun idea—if the bonuses were just colorful butterflies or a boost to Swim, it might have been amusing. But instead, they added a ton of power creep to curses, with bonuses like +5 MP, +2d6 Sneak, +2d6 Imbue, etc., which actually make a huge difference.

My personal experience?
1) I'm always dissatisfied with my gear setup because there's always something missing.
2) The game has become much more boring because I keep running the same quests—where before I needed one item, now I need to farm that same item hundreds of times.
3) I no longer pass decent loot to other players because I need to roll for curses on anything remotely useful for my current or future builds.
4) Some friends have gotten fed up and quit playing.

Do I spend more money? Personally, no. I would gladly spend money if they sold cleansers.

In my opinion, we badly need a system to craft mythic bonuses and a revamp of reaper crafting. And available cleansers.

 

[Teh_Troll]

Personally, I pretend that neither rare loot nor curse cards exist in the game.
I´ve never seen either one of these and I don´t chase them, never planned any for my builds and certainly don´t invest any money to get them...

You're proving my point, thank you.

 

[Elminster]

The problem with D&D in general. It’s turned into a number crunching game where you have to win.

While true D&D should be about furthering the story and having fun.

 

[Teh_Troll]

The problem with D&D in general. It’s turned into a number crunching game where you have to win.

While true D&D should be about furthering the story and having fun.

Good DM's don't allow or adjust for this.

Our DM is a power-mad AI.

 

[Elminster]

Good DM's don't allow or adjust for this.

Our DM is a power-mad AI driven by an insatiable lust for money and greed.

Fixed.

 

[Ying]

It's anecdotal, but sums up why I hate the MD rare loot system: 576 chest pulls in Oghma's Song during the anniversary with djinn and discovery elixirs, and I didn't get the rare medium armor once. Note this is the *base* item that still has to be upgraded in the raid to obtain the best version. Not being able to obtain the *base* item is why this system sucks. I stopped farming for it. I exhausted what shards I had. All it did is make me question why I'm spending my time hoping RNGesus blesses my dice rolls. There is no player satisfaction with this system.

 

[Teh_Troll]

It's anecdotal, but sums up why I hate the MD rare loot system: 576 chest pulls in Oghma's Song during the anniversary with djinn and discovery elixirs, and I didn't get the rare medium armor once. Note this is the *base* item that still has to be upgraded in the raid to obtain the best version. Not being able to obtain the *base* item is why this system sucks. I stopped farming for it. I exhausted what shards I had. All it did is make me question why I'm spending my time hoping RNGesus blesses my dice rolls. There is no player satisfaction with this system.

anecdotal, but a very common experience.

This is insane. Beyond greed, SSG must literally hate their player base.

(Except for crossbows, they low them!)

 

[Monkey_Archer]

So what was the point of playing advocate other than attempting to prove your right? (Waste of time)

Whats the point of the forums if everyone just agrees?
I mean its not like the devs even read this, let alone come here to argue their own perspectives on it...

 

[Elminster]

It's anecdotal, but sums up why I hate the MD rare loot system: 576 chest pulls in Oghma's Song during the anniversary with djinn and discovery elixirs, and I didn't get the rare medium armor once. Note this is the *base* item that still has to be upgraded in the raid to obtain the best version. Not being able to obtain the *base* item is why this system sucks. I stopped farming for it. I exhausted what shards I had. All it did is make me question why I'm spending my time hoping RNGesus blesses my dice rolls. There is no player satisfaction with this system.

It would upset me to no end if the “RNG” isn’t really RNG at all and rather on certain hours on certain days certain gear goes out or something along those lines.

 

[Ying]

You know what loot system was rare but fun and accepted by players? Feytwisted chests. Because when you saw one you knew everyone was guaranteed an item, and you could trade them to other players in the chest. That was satisfying and promoted playing with others.

 

[5 Other People]

Whats the point of the forums if everyone just agrees?

Community, knowing others feels the same way gives us comfort.

It's anecdotal, but sums up why I hate the MD rare loot system: 576 chest pulls in Oghma's Song during the anniversary with djinn and discovery elixirs, and I didn't get the rare medium armor once. Note this is the *base* item that still has to be upgraded in the raid to obtain the best version. Not being able to obtain the *base* item is why this system sucks. I stopped farming for it. I exhausted what shards I had. All it did is make me question why I'm spending my time hoping RNGesus blesses my dice rolls. There is no player satisfaction with this system.

Interestingly this behavior should be knowable. If I were running a loot system and was allowed to use AI (or create an AI Dungeon Master), the first thing I'd want to do is figure out each individual players loss threshold (the number of chest pulls after which customer still feels remorse even if they get the desired loot), then force them to run to 80-90% of their threshold (to maximize profit).

It's shady b/c while you will get your desired loot, it may take more time than someone with a lower loss threshold...still, most folks would be happier with the system. Also, you'd need some long running program (Like MD) to collect data on each player, to see when they reached their threshold.

Ying said it earlier, the winning move is not to play...at least until the data model is complete & they put the desired algorithms into place.

 

[Lotoc]

You know what loot system was rare but fun and accepted by players? Feytwisted chests. Because when you saw one you knew everyone was guaranteed an item, and you could trade them to other players in the chest. That was satisfying and promoted playing with others.

also the big boons of feytwisted chests being that they had no ransack timer and could spawn in the place of any chest in the relevant content, so if you were after a rare item every quest is worth running and you don't run out of chances completing a quest 8 times in a week.
Feytwisted was dramatically preferable to the current rare drop table, it's just an issue that quests can't be designed to have early chests to scout if they go with feytwisted again because we'd end up with that r10 scouting Make Believe water elementals meta again.