Razorclaw help

warlock player

Well-known member
Hi, new to this meta build that is razorclaw 18 1 1. My question for now is can you racial rage with ftr stance on? I've seen 18 ftr 1 fvs 1 brb. I thought the idea was 18 brb 1 fvd 1 wlk?

Many thanks
 

Pineapple

Active member
If by fighter stance you mean Stalwart Defence, it is usually not a good choice for a dps toon, the 150% threat will cause all sorts of issues with pulling agro from the tank.

While I'm not familiar with where you're seeing /1 being barb maybe if someone was trying to max str they might pick that for some of the cheap rage enhancements, the run speed would be nice too.
 

Rugar

Active member
Defender prevents Rage, so they are exclusive. And honestly, by the time you put the spend into VKF and Kensei you don't really have many points left over to get anything useful in SD anyway.

And you see 1 of the splits being Barb when people do not want to spend the points on a +1 Heart. If you are going to spend on the heart, you'll see it being 18/ 1 FvS / 1 Warlock. Warlock for the aura and FvS for the Charisma trance.
 

unbongwah

Well-known member
Hi, new to this meta build that is razorclaw 18 1 1. My question for now is can you racial rage with ftr stance on? I've seen 18 ftr 1 fvs 1 brb. I thought the idea was 18 brb 1 fvd 1 wlk?
Stalwart defensive stance blocks Rage. But these days, every melee tree has a tier-5 Competence bonus to HPs so you don't need Tenacious Defense. The extra PRR/MRR would be nice to have but it's not a hard requirement; and as pointed out, the extra threat is a downside if you're not built for tanking. And by design, you can't have STR bonuses from both barbarian Rage and Strong Defense, so that's a wash or favors barb Rage depending on how many Rage enhancements you can take.
 

Grunndi

Well-known member
For the OP. There are 2 common versions of this razorclaw thing. 18ftr/1fvs/1wlk and 18barb/1fvs/1wlk. The ftr version has more DPS but has a lot more to keep track of in terms of rotating boosts and active attacks to stay at peak power, and can get better tactics DCs if you want. The Barb version slightly lower overall DPS, but is much easier to stay at peak power and a lot tougher between Barb DR, Improved uncanny dodge, and just more HP (and doesn’t need a +1 Heart).

Having played both I personally prefer the Barb version. Still crazy DPS compared to almost any other build. Easier to stay at peak effectiveness (if you don’t play the Ftr version properly it’s lower DPS than the Barb), and just a little more forgiving with the better defenses. If you pop improved uncanny and Action Hero you can get a little taste of the old 95% meld.

You will sometimes see people swap the FvS for DA Cleric for the Imbue, since the Ftr version doesn’t get one and the Barb imbue is just awful. And you still get the cheap Divine might. (Edit: this may require favored weapons, so hard to do on a razorclaw without that perfect curse, and if you get that curse go pure pally lol)

And by design, you can't have STR bonuses from both barbarian Rage and Strong Defense, so that's a wash or favors barb Rage depending on how many Rage enhancements you can take.
Agree with everything you said, just wanted to clarify that Rage is basically always better. Even base rage from Fury of the Wild with just a Raging Strength item (which can be a swap) is +7, and you’ll have the Adrenaline line which gives another +3, so +10 total.
 
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warlock player

Well-known member
For the OP. There are 2 common versions of this razorclaw thing. 18ftr/1fvs/1wlk and 18barb/1fvs/1wlk. The ftr version has more DPS but has a lot more to keep track of in terms of rotating boosts and active attacks to stay at peak power, and can get better tactics DCs if you want. The Barb version slightly lower overall DPS, but is much easier to stay at peak power and a lot tougher between Barb DR, Improved uncanny dodge, and just more HP (and doesn’t need a +1 Heart).

Having played both I personally prefer the Barb version. Still crazy DPS compared to almost any other build. Easier to stay at peak effectiveness (if you don’t play the Ftr version properly it’s lower DPS than the Barb), and just a little more forgiving with the better defenses. If you pop improved uncanny and Action Hero you can get a little taste of the old 95% meld.

You will sometimes see people swap the FvS for DA Cleric for the Imbue, since the Ftr version doesn’t get one and the Barb imbue is just awful. And you still get the cheap Divine might.


Agree with everything you said, just wanted to clarify that Rage is basically always better. Even base rage from Fury of the Wild with just a Raging Strength item (which can be a swap) is +7, and you’ll have the Adrenaline line which gives another +3, so +10 total.
Thanks for your reply and all the valuable information.

I have another question, as I was pondering this for next life. Does the 1/1 split really add that much? Because on paper you get +2 str / +6 con for being pure barb, -10 melee power but your +10 melee power boost is static, and don't need gathering up of stacks per 5 seconds. In questing people move fast and with all the caster nukers around I feel like it'd be difficult to have the stacks up at 20. And then there's +25 damage from storm's eye, as well as +1% barb dmg reduction and more hp, and +20BAB, and in a 18/1/1 version you're at +24 BAB at level 32.

The trance
Is the FvS trance that much better than Harper int trance?
 

Rugar

Active member
FvS is less of an AP spend and Shifter is a -2 Int race. Also, not all that much to spend AP on so anything other than initial Int is pretty wasteful.

The Warlock level is more for Raid or high skull focused content. The aura from ES is enough to proc Arcane Warrior which in higher difficulties and raids is a pretty much always up +20MP. Is it necessarily better than going pure? You'll have to play it and find out because your opinion may differ.
 

Grunndi

Well-known member
This build is really for max endgame raid DPS so it’s all about squeezing that DPS as high as you can. 20 Barb is plenty viable, but doesn’t perform as well in that role.

The FvS trance is better for a couple reasons:
-You can get you Cha higher (razorclaw is -2 int, and there are more Cha racial PLs
-it gives bonus to Attack as well as Damage
-and most importantly it’s only 3 AP and this build simply does not have enough AP for Harper trance. By the time you pick up razorclaw Crit multi, vistani capstone, and then either Kensi or FrBerz T5s, there just isn’t enough left for a universal trance. (This build uses just about ALL the extra AP from racial PLs, Tomes, etc.)

So you need 1 FvS for trance, then it’s just a matter of what to take for that last level. Warlock is nice for those passive arcane warrior stacks and gets the best damage increase for those longer raid boss beatdowns. There’s other options too that work just fine. I would sometimes forget to turn on the warlock aura, and the build still hits plenty hard lol 🤷🏼‍♂️
 

unbongwah

Well-known member
Does the 1/1 split really add that much?
Warlock splash is exclusively for level 28+ content. Eldritch Aura causes Arcane Warrior to proc, giving a "free" +20 Melee Power once it's fully stacked.

Vistani capstone is +20 MP +5% attack speed for any melee weapon / combat style.

Divine Will / Might is only 2-4 APs while Know the Angles is 6-8 APs. Also Razorclaw takes -2 INT penalty.

So when talking about a build that is, e.g., Razorclaw warlock 1 / FvS 1 / fighter 18, every AP matters. You're looking at something like 41 Vistani / 34 Kensei / 16 Razorclaw / 1 ES / 2 Warsoul = 94 APs.

In short, this is not a leveling build or for casual players; it's for someone looking to max out their single-target melee DPS at endgame who has the racial PLs to support this approach. And isn't afraid of SSG nerfing the "ES aura + Arcane Warrior" combo and/or Razorclaw DPS someday.

Pure Razorclaw handwrap barbarian is more straight-forward: e.g., 41 Berserker / 16 Razorclaw / 14 Horizon Walker / 11 Vistani = 82 APs, doable as a first-lifer with AP tomes.
 

warlock player

Well-known member
This build is really for max endgame raid DPS so it’s all about squeezing that DPS as high as you can. 20 Barb is plenty viable, but doesn’t perform as well in that role.

The FvS trance is better for a couple reasons:
-You can get you Cha higher (razorclaw is -2 int, and there are more Cha racial PLs
-it gives bonus to Attack as well as Damage
-and most importantly it’s only 3 AP and this build simply does not have enough AP for Harper trance. By the time you pick up razorclaw Crit multi, vistani capstone, and then either Kensi or FrBerz T5s, there just isn’t enough left for a universal trance. (This build uses just about ALL the extra AP from racial PLs, Tomes, etc.)

So you need 1 FvS for trance, then it’s just a matter of what to take for that last level. Warlock is nice for those passive arcane warrior stacks and gets the best damage increase for those longer raid boss beatdowns. There’s other options too that work just fine. I would sometimes forget to turn on the warlock aura, and the build still hits plenty hard lol 🤷🏼‍♂️
Okay

Looking at the AP's I am now convinced FvS splash is a very good thing.

Is it necessarily better than going pure? You'll have to play it and find out because your opinion may differ.
Very sensibly said.

My playstyle is different from many, so only way to know for sure is I play the build.

In the end I think I will go 18ftr/1fvs/1barb, cos FvS trance is, as I've learned, vital, and I'm poor (just spent 1k turbine points on gimping this TWF build and all the pots I had).



Two last question:

What about tactics? Does this build get any CC? If so, improved trip from Fury tree? Also do I pick up Improved Sunder for raids?

Whirlwind attack and Strikethrough (via epic tree)
Are these worth it? I was going to get Spring attack for some mobility. And does strikethrough from Fury tree work?


Many thanks for your experience and goodwill to share your knowledge.
 

Rugar

Active member
The short answer is no, there is not really anything in this build that is substantially better at CC than any other equivalent Fighter build. The only exception to this is in the Razorclaw tree at T4 where you can get Relentless Onslaught which is a "recurring" trip that is not otherwise available to a Fighter.
 
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