Restless Isles needs to be updated

Br4d

Well-known member
Just ran Restless Isles for the first time in a year or two and was almost instantly reminded of why I do not run it.

Mounts do not work in the wilderness.

The map just doesn't work, likely due to overlapping elevation issues.

Knock does not work on any locked gate or door in the wilderness.

The wilderness zone is a true nightmare for people running slayer and XP pots. I had both going when I went in and I will *never* do that again.

My suggestion would be to make the simple fixes ASAP. It can't be that hard to enable mounts in a wilderness since they work everywhere else.

The map should be split into two maps if necessary, high and low. The navigation of the zone would be much easier with a working map.

I suppose I could see deciding that the gates that need a Runetusk key cant' be picked or knocked. However if that's the case I would have fewer of them and only to enter important instances. It's just annoying as all get out to keep running into them with no way around except to do the whole accessible parts of the zone in the hope a key will drop.

A better solution would be to rework Restless Isles for Epic (20 would be perfect) or Legendary content and re-examine the precepts that make it so annoying above. This would also allow for the switchover from Wildmen to some other enslaved race, which apparently is an issue since EG7 bought SSG.
 
Upvote 1

Phoenicis

Savage's Husband
Odd, We have never had an issue picking the locks on those runetusk gates. edit: Never tried to knock them though.

That said, there is ALWAYS a key on the island Just before a locked gate.

Also, this map made running the wilderness much simpler for us.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
I thought there was always a key available also. It's possible that one of the keys dropped into the aether due to lag or possibly falling through the mesh when it dropped.

The point of my post above is that Restless Isles just doesn't stand up to the quality level of most of the packs in it's temporal release window. It makes sense to fix that since I'm willing to bet it is among the least run content in the game outside of raids.
 

Visik

Well-known member
The map 'not working' is WAI.
If Knock doesn't work, you're not hitting the DC. Knock gets anemic pretty quickly. I certainly Knocked a gate to get to Slavers of the Shrieking Mines this life.
The wilderness zone predates slayer pots. It's not a good place to run with those.

And Runetusk Overseers drop keys to the gates.
 

Purr

Well-known member
The quests are fine; the wilderness was always bad. In early design, there were a lot of "instances within instances" like steam tunnels and restless isles. RI was always particularly bad, though, since there were few rares, few mobs, confusing map.

It's a shame because the two quests are good. Feels like it could be a place where it could be ravenlofted to essentially let people skip the wilderness while leaving it intact, and give teleporter NPCs directly to the quests and move the quest givers (or make redundant ones on the ship, like how arataxia works).

Would love to see Titan get some love by quadrupling the xp for the prequest and the raid and making it much easier to get to (and updating the loot). No reason we can't all run it along with VON 5/6 each life.

It would be nice if once a year, SSG dedicated one or two updates just to bringing stuff like Restless Isles up to date. Slice of Life development resources could have covered a Restless Isles revamp, and would have provided a better overall experience.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
The map 'not working' is WAI.
If Knock doesn't work, you're not hitting the DC. Knock gets anemic pretty quickly. I certainly Knocked a gate to get to Slavers of the Shrieking Mines this life.
The wilderness zone predates slayer pots. It's not a good place to run with those.

And Runetusk Overseers drop keys to the gates.

Knock works for me in Epics on a max level Wizard. It should work in a heroic 10 wilderness as a level 12 Wizard.

I completely disagree btw on the idea that Knock gets anemic. It works in r1 in Epics.
 

PersonMan

Well-known member
"The map just doesn't work, likely due to overlapping elevation issues."

We have had multilevel maps for some time now so it is certainly within their means to make a sub-level map and make it work. It is interesting to me that the current underground map will teleport your dot on the overworld map when in proximity to that area: just a strange behavior that I wonder whether it was specifically added or just works by happenstance.

Without stated plans to work on Restless Isles for an actual update I will anticipate no changes.
 

Mornyngstar

Well-known member
Just ran Restless Isles for the first time in a year or two and was almost instantly reminded of why I do not run it.

Mounts do not work in the wilderness.

The map just doesn't work, likely due to overlapping elevation issues.

Knock does not work on any locked gate or door in the wilderness.

The wilderness zone is a true nightmare for people running slayer and XP pots. I had both going when I went in and I will *never* do that again.

My suggestion would be to make the simple fixes ASAP. It can't be that hard to enable mounts in a wilderness since they work everywhere else.

The map should be split into two maps if necessary, high and low. The navigation of the zone would be much easier with a working map.

I suppose I could see deciding that the gates that need a Runetusk key cant' be picked or knocked. However if that's the case I would have fewer of them and only to enter important instances. It's just annoying as all get out to keep running into them with no way around except to do the whole accessible parts of the zone in the hope a key will drop.

A better solution would be to rework Restless Isles for Epic (20 would be perfect) or Legendary content and re-examine the precepts that make it so annoying above. This would also allow for the switchover from Wildmen to some other enslaved race, which apparently is an issue since EG7 bought SSG.
Why Restless Isles Should be Made Epic/Legendary.
 

Discount Gandalf

Well-known member
The knock spell acts as caster level + ability modifier for open lock skill. Its kind of hard to stay useful when DCs start to get stupid high, which they do in this game rather quickly. I guess it depends on the content? Given the level of the area, the DC is probably somewhere around 40 or 50ish I would imagine.
 

DYWYPI

Well-known member
An Open Lock DC of 45 is sufficient for unlocking those locked checkpoint barriers within 'The Restless Isles' wilderness tunnels. Alternatively you could use the appropriate 'Runetusk Pass-Keys' acquired from killing the Runetusk Overseers (as mention above).
 

Visik

Well-known member
The quests are fine; the wilderness was always bad. In early design, there were a lot of "instances within instances" like steam tunnels and restless isles. RI was always particularly bad, though, since there were few rares, few mobs, confusing map.

It's a shame because the two quests are good. Feels like it could be a place where it could be ravenlofted to essentially let people skip the wilderness while leaving it intact[...].

You can already skip most of the wilderness if your intent is simply to complete the quests ASAP.

If you already have the quests, there are two Guides in the first section of the underground from The Foot (where a teleport drops you off). The Runetusk Guide (just to the left of the first gate you encounter in the tunnels) will take you to the questgiver for Give Me the Head of Gola-Fan, and the Wildman Guide (straight ahead inside the first leg of the underground) will take you to the questgiver for Slavers of the Shrieking Mines.

From the questgivers, it's a short run to the quests:

For Ghola-Fan, when the Guide teleports you to the questgiver's island, you simply turn around and click the elevator, then follow one (straight) tunnel underground to the next island and one bridge to the following one, where the quest is. If you buy a key from one of the other ogre magi on the questgiver's island, you can even shortcut that by opening a door on the right in the glass spider area, kill a few oozes, pull a couple of levers, and swim up into Ghola-Fan's compound directly (into the well). You can keep the key from life to life. After completing the quest, there's another Guide on the island on the way back to the bridge who will teleport you back to the questgiver's island again. The only locked gate will be opened by an Ogre on the other side when you approach it (so he can fight you).

For Slavers, the beginning is the same (turn around and re-enter the tunnels). Then take all right turns when presented options and you get to an elevator that enters the quest. There are two wrinkles. First, there's one gate on the way there. The first door on the left in the tunnel leads to a room full of wildmen where there's a chest with a key for the gate(s). However, (second), there's no easy way to get a key on the way back. If you can't Knock or pick the gate, best is to recall back to The Foot and run to the Wildmen Guide again to get back to the questgiver's isle to turn in the quest.

All of this, ofc, depends on the availability of someone to share you the two quests so you don't have to make the runs through the wilderness just to get to the questgivers. That's one of the functions of one of the toons in my F2P account: to share these quests. On Hardcore, someone always runs to them early on and from that point, everyone shares them with others. My advice: Always retake the quests after turning them in, so you can help others shortcut the wilderness runs.
 

Visik

Well-known member
The map should be split into two maps if necessary, high and low. The navigation of the zone would be much easier with a working map.
I can't say I particularly disagree with you, but you have to remember that, historically, DDO was a much more difficult game than it now is. And sometimes the devs of the time conflated tedium or obscurity with difficulty, but that's another topic. Multi-level maps that are impossible to view in the in-game Map were pretty common at the time. In a similar timeframe, the only way to get to Meridia in the Vale of Twilight was to first talk to someone in the Tower of the Twelve, then run up the ramp to the right side of the Twelve and enter the Vale wilderness, then work your way through the wilderness to find the entrance to Meridia. The only way to get to Restless Isles was to run Hiding in Plain Sight, turn it in to the Inquisitive in the tavern in the Harbor, then find the guy in the Marketplace who would teleport you to The Foot. The game was deliberately complex and confusing.

Over the years, there's been a strong movement to make the game more accessible (which cut down on some of the elitism that used to run rampant). Maps got better, wildernesses got people who would teleport you to quests if you met certain prereqs (or paid in Astral Shards), we got Stormreach Teleporters and Guild Airships and their portals.... I'm sure if the idea for Restless Isles came up as a new one today, it would be designed differently. But overcoming the inertia of an existing quest to revamp it is apparently a higher bar.

I'm not opposed to the change you propose, but I acknowledge a bit of nostalgia for a different time in DDO's existence that I'm reminded of whenever I run the quests in Restless Isles.... And I frankly really miss the fail condition in Slavers of the Shrieking Mines where killing too many Wildmen Slaves would fail the quest. Now the only difficult thing in it is making sure you don't fall past one of the side halls when dropping from level to level down the main shaft. (Though not dying in the sonic traps can still be a bit of a challenge for some toons.)
 

Purr

Well-known member
You can already skip most of the wilderness if your intent is simply to complete the quests ASAP.

If you already have the quests, there are two Guides in the first section of the underground from The Foot (where a teleport drops you off). The Runetusk Guide (just to the left of the first gate you encounter in the tunnels) will take you to the questgiver for Give Me the Head of Gola-Fan, and the Wildman Guide (straight ahead inside the first leg of the underground) will take you to the questgiver for Slavers of the Shrieking Mines.

From the questgivers, it's a short run to the quests:

For Ghola-Fan, when the Guide teleports you to the questgiver's island, you simply turn around and click the elevator, then follow one (straight) tunnel underground to the next island and one bridge to the following one, where the quest is. If you buy a key from one of the other ogre magi on the questgiver's island, you can even shortcut that by opening a door on the right in the glass spider area, kill a few oozes, pull a couple of levers, and swim up into Ghola-Fan's compound directly (into the well). You can keep the key from life to life. After completing the quest, there's another Guide on the island on the way back to the bridge who will teleport you back to the questgiver's island again. The only locked gate will be opened by an Ogre on the other side when you approach it (so he can fight you).

For Slavers, the beginning is the same (turn around and re-enter the tunnels). Then take all right turns when presented options and you get to an elevator that enters the quest. There are two wrinkles. First, there's one gate on the way there. The first door on the left in the tunnel leads to a room full of wildmen where there's a chest with a key for the gate(s). However, (second), there's no easy way to get a key on the way back. If you can't Knock or pick the gate, best is to recall back to The Foot and run to the Wildmen Guide again to get back to the questgiver's isle to turn in the quest.

All of this, ofc, depends on the availability of someone to share you the two quests so you don't have to make the runs through the wilderness just to get to the questgivers. That's one of the functions of one of the toons in my F2P account: to share these quests. On Hardcore, someone always runs to them early on and from that point, everyone shares them with others. My advice: Always retake the quests after turning them in, so you can help others shortcut the wilderness runs.
Lots of good stuff here (as usual), Vis.

I think the mechanic of "just have someone share" or "have a second account" feels a little too meta for me, kind of like red boxing shadow crypt.

Maybe Restless Isles could essentially just be scrapped and the quests moved somewhere like searing heights, which is a phenomenal wilderness area but under-utilized?
 
Nunca jugué Restless Isles porque no se entiende qué quisieron hacer ahí. El mapa no está claro. Rápidamente termino perdido y nunca llego a ninguna misión. Pero no es la única zona que está tan mal diseñada y es tan agresiva con los jugadores que ni vale la pena poner un pie ahí.

La necrópolis, giganthold y todas las misiones en The Cogs son otras zonas pésimamente diseñadas. Empezando porque tienes que pasar por un laberinto lleno de enemigos para llegar a otro laberinto lleno de enemigos y puzzles. Dios, hay una raid, y ya estamos hablando de una raid, en una zona central del juego en la que vas a matar a un dragón y para matar el dragón tienes que resolver 14 puzzles mientras te caen rayos… Eso es ser Troll, y disculpen la palabra, pero en su profundo significado y por definición es ser caprichoso, infantil e idiota. Eso es lo que es el diseño de este juego que pretende tener trasfondo e historia pero recurre continuamente a deus ex machinas para argumentar situaciones que tienen el único fin de que nadie se divierta.

A lo que quiero llegar es a que hay una diferencia entre difícil o desafiante pero divertido y malintencionadamente roto para frustrar. Porque debe que existir una intención detrás de ese desastre. Y eso es lo que buscan esos pésimos diseños, que vos te frustres, como una burla hacia el jugador que creía que se iba divertir.

¿Creías que ibas a matar un dragón? -¡No! Vas a resolver 14 puzzles.

¿Qué creíste que ibas a hacer una misión, divertirte y obtener una recompensa? -¡No! Vas a estar media hora perdido en una zona buscando la llave de una puerta solamente para descubrir que está bug.

¿Creíste que ibas a pasar la misión?- ¡No! Hacen falta dos jugadores porque hay que activar dos palancas al mismo tiempo. No hay diversión para vos, ándate a otro lado.

Y así es todo el juego. Es como si lo hubiera hecho un Troll que no quiere que vos te diviertas, porque tal vez no tenga suficiente contenido para poner en el juego y alucine conque si lo hace más difícil apropósito van a tardar más en pasarlo o algún infantilismo. Tal vez crea que negándole una recompensa a un jugador lo va a hacer más feliz o que va a ser más entretenido. Pero cuando solamente hay cinco misiones es inevitable que los jugadores se las aprendan de memoria.

Además está lleno de bugs que no han sido reparados en 17 años.

Y el epítome de esa mezcla desastrosa es Restless Isles, algo tan troll, tan infantil, tan idiota, que una vez que lo pruebas decides no volver jamás. Como si te hubieran jugado una mala broma solamente para hacerte sentir mal.
 

Visik

Well-known member
Nunca jugué Restless Isles porque no se entiende qué quisieron hacer ahí. El mapa no está claro. Rápidamente termino perdido y nunca llego a ninguna misión. Pero no es la única zona que está tan mal diseñada y es tan agresiva con los jugadores que ni vale la pena poner un pie ahí.

La necrópolis, giganthold y todas las misiones en The Cogs son otras zonas pésimamente diseñadas. Empezando porque tienes que pasar por un laberinto lleno de enemigos para llegar a otro laberinto lleno de enemigos y puzzles. Dios, hay una raid, y ya estamos hablando de una raid, en una zona central del juego en la que vas a matar a un dragón y para matar el dragón tienes que resolver 14 puzzles mientras te caen rayos… Eso es ser Troll, y disculpen la palabra, pero en su profundo significado y por definición es ser caprichoso, infantil e idiota. Eso es lo que es el diseño de este juego que pretende tener trasfondo e historia pero recurre continuamente a deus ex machinas para argumentar situaciones que tienen el único fin de que nadie se divierta.

A lo que quiero llegar es a que hay una diferencia entre difícil o desafiante pero divertido y malintencionadamente roto para frustrar. Porque debe que existir una intención detrás de ese desastre. Y eso es lo que buscan esos pésimos diseños, que vos te frustres, como una burla hacia el jugador que creía que se iba divertir.

¿Creías que ibas a matar un dragón? -¡No! Vas a resolver 14 puzzles.

¿Qué creíste que ibas a hacer una misión, divertirte y obtener una recompensa? -¡No! Vas a estar media hora perdido en una zona buscando la llave de una puerta solamente para descubrir que está bug.

¿Creíste que ibas a pasar la misión?- ¡No! Hacen falta dos jugadores porque hay que activar dos palancas al mismo tiempo. No hay diversión para vos, ándate a otro lado.

Y así es todo el juego. Es como si lo hubiera hecho un Troll que no quiere que vos te diviertas, porque tal vez no tenga suficiente contenido para poner en el juego y alucine conque si lo hace más difícil apropósito van a tardar más en pasarlo o algún infantilismo. Tal vez crea que negándole una recompensa a un jugador lo va a hacer más feliz o que va a ser más entretenido. Pero cuando solamente hay cinco misiones es inevitable que los jugadores se las aprendan de memoria.

Además está lleno de bugs que no han sido reparados en 17 años.

Y el epítome de esa mezcla desastrosa es Restless Isles, algo tan troll, tan infantil, tan idiota, que una vez que lo pruebas decides no volver jamás. Como si te hubieran jugado una mala broma solamente para hacerte sentir mal.
¡Guau! Si asi piensas del juego entero, por qué juegas?

Si todos los misiones eran solo de matar a un montstruo, devendríamos aburrido rápido. Puzzles y problemas hacen mejor el juego por darnos diferentes cosas que hacer. Pero, si, la zona en Restless Isles es difícil sin buen razon por estar así.. al menos en el estado corriente del juego. Pero a mi parecen interesantes los misiones allí.
 

axel15810

Well-known member
It does need an update, badly. Inside the caves they need to add actual maps so you can navigate the area. Same design choice is why I don't like Madstone Crater.

It is overly cryptic to just get to the quests, this pack really does harken back to an older design style of MMOs. I hate the idea of them just lazily adding a teleport NPC to this area that sends you straight to the quests/quest givers, since a lot of thought went into the wilderness, but if they are never going to revisit the area it'd be better than the current state. Or, they could boost the quest XP a lot to make the XP/min more worth it considering the long confusing wilderness runs, especially for those running XP pots.
 
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