Returning Player Bard Questions

[eazyypz]

Hey gamers! Returning player looking at starting a first life character and really liking the sound of playing a caster bard. I am VIP, have access to everything. 32pts unlocked.

Would Stormsinger or regular Bard be the move?
Which races are optimal and why?
Which feats/enhancements are super high prio and why?

Also as a bonus meme would love to see a viable THF bard build as well.

Current goal is to play through Epics with a static (casual) group. Thanks in advance for any responses or assistance.

 

[Hobgoblin]

stormsinger is squishy but fun

 

[seph1roth5]

I love stormsinger bard, but I still go tier5/capstone spellsinger.

Stormsinger brings magical training (to get greater color spray and perma-shield from feydark illusionist, maybe cha to hit/damage), more dps options as you pick spells (like chain lightning), and more SLAs.

It has more raw dps in it's tree than spellsinger, but spell just has soooo much more utility. Storm gets iceberg and lightning strike added to your song, which is cool for damage/stun/freeze, but Spellsinger gets SP regen, higher dcs, heal, wail of the banshee, and mass hold.

I don't know that I'd call them "squishy" unless you're playing above R1. They have a lot of healing, displacement, and CC so you shouldn't be taking a lot of damage. Plus, while it's tricky to use, spellsingers eventually can fascinate oozes/undead/constructs.

Spellsinger bard is one of my fav builds by far. I have a main alt (?!?) that i've been working on completionist for, and he's going to be a spellsinger in the end.

 

[kmoustakas]

Hey gamers! Returning player looking at starting a first life character and really liking the sound of playing a caster bard. I am VIP, have access to everything. 32pts unlocked.

Would Stormsinger or regular Bard be the move?
Which races are optimal and why?
Which feats/enhancements are super high prio and why?

Also as a bonus meme would love to see a viable THF bard build as well.

Current goal is to play through Epics with a static (casual) group. Thanks in advance for any responses or assistance.

Stormsinger is a better solo and leveling experience because it has higher DPS. It loses inspire greatness though and all professional bards know how good that is, especially on epic.

What I do is level 1-30 on a stormsinger then I etr into a normal bard for 12 beautiful points in swashbuckler and 21 points in warchanter for the better inspire greatness.

 

[Silverhilt]

Would Stormsinger or regular Bard be the move?
Which races are optimal and why?
Which feats/enhancements are super high prio and why?

If you care about Buffs, then choose regular Bard. Any Bard ought to take up to T4 in Spellsinger for the song buffs, and depending on how you want to buff the party, points in Warchanter for your Bardic Aura is really solid. Song buffs (from Spellsinger) provides some heal over time and bonuses to mainly spellcasters I'd say, with spell DC and sp discount. Your Warchanter Aura provides to-hit, dmg prr and dblstrike for the DPS in party, but you have to be close.
Bards can be very good at crowd control, so a charisma race with 20 starting Cha+lvl ups, can ensure an easier time landing your spells. Default is Enchantment spells, but I have found I prefer the Evocation School with enchant 2nd.
Good feats are Spell Focus line for chosen school (can get 2nd School Speciality feat later (so you have both schools)), Metamagics to improve heals and/or Sonic stuff. Id stay away from Force of Personality for will saves, freedom of movement spell and a Protection from evil wand/pot will negate basically all spells that target your will. If going Enchant dont forget Spell Penetration.

The only pro for Stormsinger is the added elemental nuke spells, but I found gearing for spellpowers to be difficult. And they dont get Swashbuckler enhancement tree which has some nice perks if you have points to spare. A good extra tree is Feydark Illusionist, for easy charisma to-hit/dmg, more cha and an okay CC spell, Greater Color Spray.

I have a build posted, link in sig or further down the page ..thread has a few insights to what I consider a good all round yet specialized Bard

 

[eazyypz]

I love stormsinger bard, but I still go tier5/capstone spellsinger.

Stormsinger brings magical training (to get greater color spray and perma-shield from feydark illusionist, maybe cha to hit/damage), more dps options as you pick spells (like chain lightning), and more SLAs.

It has more raw dps in it's tree than spellsinger, but spell just has soooo much more utility. Storm gets iceberg and lightning strike added to your song, which is cool for damage/stun/freeze, but Spellsinger gets SP regen, higher dcs, heal, wail of the banshee, and mass hold.

I don't know that I'd call them "squishy" unless you're playing above R1. They have a lot of healing, displacement, and CC so you shouldn't be taking a lot of damage. Plus, while it's tricky to use, spellsingers eventually can fascinate oozes/undead/constructs.

Spellsinger bard is one of my fav builds by far. I have a main alt (?!?) that i've been working on completionist for, and he's going to be a spellsinger in the end.

Appreciate this. Since I'm more worried about the success of the group and less about being the star of the show, I'll be going Spellsinger for sure.

 

[eazyypz]

If you care about Buffs, then choose regular Bard. Any Bard ought to take up to T4 in Spellsinger for the song buffs, and depending on how you want to buff the party, points in Warchanter for your Bardic Aura is really solid. Song buffs (from Spellsinger) provides some heal over time and bonuses to mainly spellcasters I'd say, with spell DC and sp discount. Your Warchanter Aura provides to-hit, dmg prr and dblstrike for the DPS in party, but you have to be close.
Bards can be very good at crowd control, so a charisma race with 20 starting Cha+lvl ups, can ensure an easier time landing your spells. Default is Enchantment spells, but I have found I prefer the Evocation School with enchant 2nd.
Good feats are Spell Focus line for chosen school (can get 2nd School Speciality feat later (so you have both schools)), Metamagics to improve heals and/or Sonic stuff. Id stay away from Force of Personality for will saves, freedom of movement spell and a Protection from evil wand/pot will negate basically all spells that target your will. If going Enchant dont forget Spell Penetration.

The only pro for Stormsinger is the added elemental nuke spells, but I found gearing for spellpowers to be difficult. And they dont get Swashbuckler enhancement tree which has some nice perks if you have points to spare. A good extra tree is Feydark Illusionist, for easy charisma to-hit/dmg, more cha and an okay CC spell, Greater Color Spray.

I have a build posted, link in sig or further down the page ..thread has a few insights to what I consider a good all round yet specialized Bard

I really appreciate these insights. I did not even really consider focusing on a school of magic to improve DCs. That seems like a pretty major one. Without using a +1 heart of wood for a PDK, would you recommend Tiefling or Dragonborn probably? (I'm guessing).

 

[Silverhilt]

yeah those are good races for sure, also a human can somewhat compete

 

[Hobgoblin]

I run a first life human bard that has 125 enchantment DC and holds most things

 

[Bardy]

If nobody in your group wants to trap you could also consider splashing 2 rogue for a "super utility" build. I'm running an 18/2 normal bard/rogue and she's very fun - solid DPS, healing, trapping. Getting evasion makes you a little more slippery also. With the bard buffs you tend to have very good trapping skills. You'll miss out on capstone, though which is a bummer.

I like running this build primarily using my SLA's pumped with metamagics active so feats are:
- maximize
- quicken
- empower
- heighten (arguably less vital depending on what you want to focus on)
- extend (again, not totally vital, but nice to have less frequent buffing)
- feat that gives int to your reflex save, if you invest into it more for trapping skills, and feat that gives cha to your will save
- spell focus enchant (I didn't take this, with the splash I wasn't sure it'd be worth it. I still do see pretty good success with disco ball)

You don't get very many good nuke spells, so going stormsinger may actually be better if you want to nuke as much as possible.

 

[ChickenMobile]

Spellsinger or Bard?
It is up to your playstyle.
Bard has better defensive buffs attached to songs/aura with the ability to also do physical damage if wanted, while Stormsinger is more Spellcasting-focused and does more spellcasting damage (they get +caster levels etc.) while buffing your physical friends with lightning strikes. Both have access to Spellsinger tree so getting the great effects and SLAs there is possible.

My suggestions:
If you have a physical focused team but you rather stay back a bit and cast spells - choose Stormsinger.
If you like to get into the thick of things - choose Bard. Even if you decide to go spellcasting bard, swashbuckler or warchanter is great to dip into for defensive abilities.
Bards multiclass well with 2 levels of Rogue (to get evasion and trapping abilities) but a pure 20 bard is probably still the strongest.

Races
Anything that gives a bonus to Charisma initially is great. This is essentially a free +1 to all your DCs and other important bard abilities. Dragonborn is a great choice for Stormsinger to deal more lightning damage. Tieflings (+charisma) and Humans (for an extra feat) are popular choices. The new Eladrin is a good choice (well-rounded stats).

Important Feats/Enhancements
Feats
Bards should take at the basic damage-focused metamagics: Maximize, Empower, Quicken. I found Extend, Heighten or Spell DC focus feats not as important for a bard as a wizard or sorcerer would be because their max level of spell is 6 rather than 9.
I usually take the Shield Fighting or Single Weapon Fighting (melee/hybrid bard) styles on Bard for more HP - but that is up to you. Without Primal past lives, not taking these feats means being a bit squishy. You can probably ignore these feats on a Stormsinger.
Enhancements
Spellsinger: anything that buffs your songs for yourself and others is great here. Fast Healing and Spell Point regen are amazing for everyone. Heal, Horn of Thunder and Mass Hold Monster are incredibly strong. SLAs all stay strong except for Reverberate, I like taking Suggestion instead. Take all the boosts to Enchantment and Evocation DCs.
Warchanter: Anything that boosts PRR, defense, your aura/songs are great choices. Core 4 (Fighting Spirit) is amazing for your team's survivability, especially in Reaper difficulties.
Swashbuckler: If not melee-focused: Dodge/Deflect Arrows/Fast Movement and Skirmisher for +10% dodge while holding a buckler is still 100% worth it. Melee Bards will do the most damage swashbuckling (don't take warchanter medium armor enhancement) - En Pointe is a great melee attack. Would suggest going to T5 in Warchanter over Swashbuckler for the extra 6% damage and +1 19-20 weapon multi.
Stormsinger: Caster levels, electric/sonic/universal spellpower and crit chance, Fast Movement, Metamagic reductions, Evocation DCs. I rather go to t5 in Spellsinger as a caster as you get much more DC and utility while still getting Horn of Thunder. But that's up to you.
If you come across an enemy immune to lightning, use your sonic spells instead. I always felt the Cold SLAs weak at mid-high Heroics anyway.

 

[eazyypz]

Spellsinger or Bard?
It is up to your playstyle.
Bard has better defensive buffs attached to songs/aura with the ability to also do physical damage if wanted, while Stormsinger is more Spellcasting-focused and does more spellcasting damage (they get +caster levels etc.) while buffing your physical friends with lightning strikes. Both have access to Spellsinger tree so getting the great effects and SLAs there is possible.

My suggestions:
If you have a physical focused team but you rather stay back a bit and cast spells - choose Stormsinger.
If you like to get into the thick of things - choose Bard. Even if you decide to go spellcasting bard, swashbuckler or warchanter is great to dip into for defensive abilities.
Bards multiclass well with 2 levels of Rogue (to get evasion and trapping abilities) but a pure 20 bard is probably still the strongest.

Races
Anything that gives a bonus to Charisma initially is great. This is essentially a free +1 to all your DCs and other important bard abilities. Dragonborn is a great choice for Stormsinger to deal more lightning damage. Tieflings (+charisma) and Humans (for an extra feat) are popular choices. The new Eladrin is a good choice (well-rounded stats).

Important Feats/Enhancements
Feats
Bards should take at the basic damage-focused metamagics: Maximize, Empower, Quicken. I found Extend, Heighten or Spell DC focus feats not as important for a bard as a wizard or sorcerer would be because their max level of spell is 6 rather than 9.
I usually take the Shield Fighting or Single Weapon Fighting (melee/hybrid bard) styles on Bard for more HP - but that is up to you. Without Primal past lives, not taking these feats means being a bit squishy. You can probably ignore these feats on a Stormsinger.
Enhancements
Spellsinger: anything that buffs your songs for yourself and others is great here. Fast Healing and Spell Point regen are amazing for everyone. Heal, Horn of Thunder and Mass Hold Monster are incredibly strong. SLAs all stay strong except for Reverberate, I like taking Suggestion instead. Take all the boosts to Enchantment and Evocation DCs.
Warchanter: Anything that boosts PRR, defense, your aura/songs are great choices. Core 4 (Fighting Spirit) is amazing for your team's survivability, especially in Reaper difficulties.
Swashbuckler: If not melee-focused: Dodge/Deflect Arrows/Fast Movement and Skirmisher for +10% dodge while holding a buckler is still 100% worth it. Melee Bards will do the most damage swashbuckling (don't take warchanter medium armor enhancement) - En Pointe is a great melee attack. Would suggest going to T5 in Warchanter over Swashbuckler for the extra 6% damage and +1 19-20 weapon multi.
Stormsinger: Caster levels, electric/sonic/universal spellpower and crit chance, Fast Movement, Metamagic reductions, Evocation DCs. I rather go to t5 in Spellsinger as a caster as you get much more DC and utility while still getting Horn of Thunder. But that's up to you.
If you come across an enemy immune to lightning, use your sonic spells instead. I always felt the Cold SLAs weak at mid-high Heroics anyway.

This is incredible, thank you!

 

[seph1roth5]

People dismiss the spellsinger's healing a lot since it's a pretty small amount, but it's a small amount every couple sec lol. Can easily keep a party alive in r1.

As for the 125 dcs, that may be a first life character but I bet they have tons and tons of gear. I doubt the OP is quiiiiite there yet lol.

 

[Hobgoblin]

well ya


it took me a while to get it but it is possible is my point

 

[Frantik]

I find Spellsinger is my cup of tea... you can still solo, and having Hold Monster Mass with a decent DC helps in groups too. The cap provides Heal spell, the other cores DCs. Farm the SM ring from rare chests, the Smugglers cap is nice too. Feydark for +4 Cha, GCS, saves and extra crit chance.