Rogue Revamp

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Rogue drastically needs some love in terms of QoL and modernization. Would love to offer some more detailed feedback on this whenever it comes closer to actually happening! I'm updating my initial post with my full recommendations here, because it's more relevant to the thread.

If I had the ability to write for a Rogue/Shadowdancer Revamp, this would be my work.

Rogue Enhancements​

Assassin​

Core​

Knife in the Darkness (AP 1): You gain proficiency with Kukris. You can also use your Dexterity modifier to hit with Daggers, Shortswords, and Kukris.
Dagger in the Back (AP 1): You can now use your Dexterity for damage with Daggers, Shortswords, and Kukris. If you possess the Weapon Finesse feat, this also applies to melee weapons with which you can use your Dexterity modifier to hit. This enhancement does not work with handwraps or unarmed attacks.
Assassin's Trick (AP 1): On Crit: Target opponent loses their immunity to sneak attack and 25% of their fortification for 15 seconds.
Nimbleness (AP 1): On Hit: Up to once every 2 seconds, you gain 1% dodge for 6 seconds. This effect can stack up to 10 times. +5 Melee Power. +25% movement speed while stealthed.
Lethality (AP 1): While wearing light or cloth armor you gain +1 Insight bonus to your Critical Damage Multiplier for any one-handed weapon you are wielding (Two Weapon Fighters will get the bonus for both weapons provided they qualify.)
Deadly Shadow (AP 1): You gain +4 Dexterity and +2 Intelligence. You gain 10 Melee Power and +4 Sneak Attack dice. You gain +4 to Reflex Saving Throws. You gain +2 to the DC of your Assassinate.

Tier 1​

Poison Strikes (AP 2): Select one of three poisonous attacks.
Venomed Blades (AP 2): Imbue Toggle: On hit: 1d8 poison damage with weapon attacks, scaling with 200% of the higher Melee Power or Ranged Power.
Shiv (AP 1): Melee Attack: Performs a melee attack with +1/2/3[W], a +4 bonus to-hit, +1/2/3 to critical threat range, and +1/1/2 to Critical Damage Multiplier. On Damage: The target will become momentarily confused and rendered vulnerable to sneak attacks for four seconds as if affected by the bluff skill. (Cooldown 6 seconds)
Sneak Attack Training (AP 2): Grants +1 Sneak Attack die, +1 to hit when performing sneak attacks, and +1 to the DC of your Assassinate.
Stealthy (AP 1): +1/+2/+3 Hide and Move Silently. +25/50/75% enchantment bonus to movement speed while sneaking. Tier 3 grants the Hide in Plain Sight feat.

• Bug: Currently, this only provides +20/35/50%, this is a bug and it should provide the correct value
• Bug: If you jump or fall down to a different surface while sneaking, your speed may reset to a slower value until you exit and re-enter sneak mode, or switch weapons.

Tier 2​

Poison Strikes (AP 2): Select one of three poisonous attacks.
Toxin Affinity (AP 1): +1/+2/+3 Imbue Dice, Fortitude saves vs. Poisons and to the save DC of your Poison attacks.
Bleed Them Out (AP 1): Melee Attack: Deal +1/+2/+3[W] damage and on successful damage causes your opponent to bleed. The bleed effect can stack up to 5 times. (Cooldown: 6 seconds)
Sneak Attack Training (AP 2): Grants +1 Sneak Attack die, +1 to hit when performing sneak attacks, and +1 to the DC of your Assassinate.
Action Boost Multiselector (AP 1): Choose between Power Boost and Haste Boost.

Tier 3​

Poison Strikes (AP 2): Select one of three poisonous attacks.
Critical Mastery (AP 1): +1/2/3 bonus to critical damage and to confirm critical hits.
Shadow Dagger (AP 1): Throw a dagger made of solidified shadows at your enemy. Deals 4d8/6d8/8d8 unholy damage and blinds the target (Fort DC 10/14/18 + Rogue Level + the greater of Intelligence or Dexterity bonus + bonuses to Assassinate Negates blindness). This damage scales with 400% Melee Power. (Cooldown: 30/20/10 seconds)
Sneak Attack Training (AP 2): Grants +1 Sneak Attack die, +1 to hit when performing sneak attacks, and +1 to the DC of your Assassinate.
Dexterity or Intelligence (AP 2): Select +1 to Dexterity or Intelligence.

Tier 4​

Execute (AP 2): Melee Assassinate attack: +3[W] damage. If the target is below 30% health, deal 500 damage. This damage scales with 400% Melee Power. (Cooldown: 15 seconds). Shares a cooldown with A Good Death and Merciful Strike (melee and ranged versions).
Killer (AP 1): When you kill a target, gain +5 morale bonus to Melee Power and Ranged Power for 20 seconds. Weak enemies will not always produce this effect. The killer buff can stack up to 2/3/4 times.
Weakening Strikes (AP 2): Your attacks reduce the Melee and Ranged Power of opponents by (10 + Rogue Level/2) for 20 seconds if you attack an enemy with an "Assassin's Mark." (Applied by Poison Strikes.)
Sneak Attack Training (AP 2): Grants +1 Sneak Attack die, +1 to hit when performing sneak attacks, and +1 to the DC of your Assassinate.
Dexterity or Intelligence (AP 2): Select +1 to Dexterity or Intelligence.

Tier 5​

Assassinate (AP 1): Stealth Melee Assassinate Attack: On Sneak Attack: +10 Sneak Attack dice. Kills a target instantly, Fortitude save (10 + Rogue level + the greater of Intelligence or Dexterity bonus + bonuses to Assassinate) negates. (Cooldown: 12 seconds.)
Measure the Foe (AP 1): Gain +6 Melee Power, +2 Dodge, +2 Maximum Dodge, +1 to hit and +1 to the DC's of your Assassinate abilities for every 4/2/1 seconds you remain stealthed. This effect stacks up to five times, and lasts 20 seconds after you come out of stealth.
Deadly Strikes (AP 2): +10 damage against enemies with an "Assassin's Mark". (Applied by Poison Strikes.)
Knife Specialization (AP 2): You gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier with Daggers, Shortswords, and Kukris. Daggers also gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Threat Range. If you have Improved Critical: Piercing, this bonus to Threat Range is doubled.
Light Armor Mastery (AP 1): Gain 2/4/6 to the Maximum Dexterity Bonus of light armor and gain 2/4/6 Physical Resistance Rating. Rank 3: +25% Competence bonus to maximum hit points.

Mechanic​

Core​

Arbalester (AP 1): You can now use your Intelligence Modifier for attack with all crossbows and thrown weapons. Additionally, your ranged sneak attack and Point Blank Shot range increases by 5 meters per trained Mechanic Core enhancement. You also gain proficiency with great crossbows.
Targeting Sights (AP 1): You can now use your Intelligence modifier for damage with all crossbows and thrown weapons. You also gain proficiency with light repeating crossbows.
Distracting Shot (AP 1): Ranged Attack: Performs a ranged attack with +2[W], a +4 bonus to-hit, +2 to critical threat range, and +2 to Critical Damage Multiplier. On Damage: The target will become momentarily confused and rendered vulnerable to sneak attacks for four seconds as if affected by the bluff skill. (Cooldown 6 seconds)
Improved Detection (AP 1): You can detect traps and search from 50% further away. You gain proficiency with heavy repeating crossbows. You gain +1 to-hit and damage, and 1 extra Sneak Attack die with bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons.
Expert Builder (AP 1): You gain a +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Multiplier with bows, crossbows & thrown weapons. Great Crossbows instead gain +2 Competence Bonus to Critical Multiplier. Cooldowns of Alchemical Trap attacks are reduced by 20%.
Hip Flask (AP 1): Passive: +2 Dexterity and +4 Intelligence, +1 to hit with all crossbows, +2 damage with all repeating crossbows, +4 damage with non-repeating crossbows, +2 Sneak Attack dice and +2 to hit when performing Sneak Attacks. You are always considered to be in Point Blank Shot and Ranged Sneak Attack range.

• Action Boost: You drink a potion that you've been saving for a special occasion. Heals you for 10d3+30 (scales with 200% Ranged Power) and adds +10 to Dodge and Maximum Dodge for 10 seconds. For the next 60 seconds, you gain +1d6 to all ability scores, and +2d6 to attack and damage. (Cooldown: 3 minutes)

Tier 1​

Sharpshooter (AP 2): +1 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. +1 additional damage and one Sneak Attack die with all non-repeating crossbows if you are not dual shooting.
Lacerating Shots (AP 1): You have upgraded your Great Crossbow to shoot more forcefully that its construction would normally allow. Your Great Crossbow attacks have a 33%/66%/100% chance of putting a stack of Bleed on enemies. The bleed effect can stack up to 5 times.

• Note: Bleed deals 1d6 damage every 2 seconds for 14 seconds. This damage scales with 200% Ranged PowerMelee Power.

Thunderstone (AP 1): Alchemical Trap Attack: Throws an alchemical charge at your enemy. Deals 4d6/6d6/8d6 sonic damage and dazes in an area. Fort DC (12/16/20 + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier) Negates daze. The damage scales with 200% Ranged Power.

• Bug: The daze does not work correctly, targets hit by the daze effect can still move and attack, yet are vulnerable to sneak attacks.
• Bug: Thunderstone actually blinds targets and damage does not scale with RP.

Mechanics (AP 1): +1/+2/+3 Disable Device, Open Lock, and Repair. +1/+2/+3 to Saving Throws you make against traps.
Awareness (AP 1): +1/+2/+3 Listen, Search, and Spot.

Tier 2​

Sharpshooter (AP 2): +1 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2 and +1 SA dice if you are not dual shooting.
Conjure Bolts (AP 2): Activate to create a stack of returning +1 bolts. These bolts are destroyed when you log out for an extended period of time.

• Conjured Bolts have a 100% returning chance, just like Conjured Arrows from the Arcane Archer Enhancement Tree.

Improved Traps (AP 1): +[1/2/3] to the save DC's of Alchemical Trap Attacks and Magical Traps. Elemental Traps that you place now have a DC equal to [65/80/100]% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%. Additionally, you disable traps and open locks 25/33/50% faster.
Wand and Scroll Mastery (AP 1): +25%/+50%/+75% damage and healing of your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/+2/+3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands. Taking Wand and Scroll Mastery in one enhancement tree will block its availability in other enhancement trees.
Skill Boost (AP 1): Activate to gain a +2/+4/+6 Action Boost bonus to all skills for 20 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)

Tier 3​

Sharpshooter (AP 2): +1 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2 and +1 SA dice if you are not dual shooting.
Ooze Flask (AP 1): Alchemical Trap Attack: You throw a flask at your enemy that contains concentrated grey ooze secretions. Deals 4d8/8d8/12d8 acid damage (scales with 200% Ranged Power), no save, and reduces the Armor Class and PRR of your opponent by 2/4/8 for 30 seconds, Fort DC 10 + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier) negates.
Improved Trap Detection (AP 2): You will automatically find traps and secret doors for you assuming you meet the statistical threshold. You gain a bonus to Search and Disable Device skills equal to your Rogue Level.
Use Magical Device (AP 1): +[1/2/3] Use Magic Device and at Tier 3, you gain the Quick Draw feat.
Dexterity or Intelligence (AP 2): Select +1 to Dexterity or Intelligence.

Tier 4​

Sharpshooter (AP 2): +1 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2 and +1 SA dice if you are not dual shooting. You also gain +10 to your Ranged Power.
Tanglefoot (AP 1): Alchemical Trap Activate: Throws a flask of caustic liquid at your enemy, which explodes into a sticky mess. Enemies caught within by the goo puddle take: 4d6/6d6/8d6 acid damage every 2 seconds, Reflex DC (12/16/20 + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier) halves, and are slowed (does not affect bosses), Reflex (DC 12/16/20 + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier) negates. This damage scales with 200% Ranged Power.
Wrack Construct (AP 2): Passive: Your weapons count as Adamantine for bypassing Damage Reduction, gain Construct Bane 3, and applies Wracked: This construct or living construct's fortification is reduced by -10% and loses its inherent immunity to sneak attack. This effect stacks up to five times. Damage scales with the 200% melee power or ranged power, whichever is higher. Duration: 20 seconds.
Leg Shot (AP 2): Ranged Attack: +2[W]. On Damage: Slow your enemy's movement by 50% for 10 seconds. (Cooldown: 10 seconds, also affects bosses)
Dexterity or Intelligence (AP 2): Select +1 to Dexterity or Intelligence.

Tier 5​

Sharpshooter (AP 2): +3 to-hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. +3 additional damage with all non-repeating crossbows and +1 SA dice if you are not dual shooting.
Rapid Fire (AP 1): +3%/6%/10% Doubleshot
Time Bomb (AP 1): Alchemical Trap Attack: Quickly creates an alchemical charge at your feet. Deals 10/25/50 sonic and 10/25/50 fire damage per rogue level to all nearby enemies after 2 seconds, and knocks them to the ground. Reflex (DC [10/14/18] + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier + Trap Bonus) for half damage. Balance DC (Disable Device check) (Listed Balance DC (10 + Half Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier + Trap Bonus) to Negate knockdown.

• Bug: Severe targeting problems. Some monsters seem to be completely immune (e.g. many tieflings, some zombies), and the damage blast will often fail to hit enemies on sloping or uneven ground.

Sniper (AP 2): You gain 1 extra Sneak Attack die with bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase this to 3 Sneak Attack dice and also gain +2[W]. Great Crossbows now vorpal on a 19-20.
Mechanical Reloader (AP 2): +10 Ranged Power, +10% Ranged Alacrity with repeating crossbows and thrown weapons. +30% Ranged Alacrity with non-repeating crossbows when not dual shooting.

Thief Acrobat​

Core​

Staff Control (AP 1): You can now use your Dexterity modifier to hit with Quarterstaves.
Stick Fighting (AP 1): You can now use your Dexterity modifier for damage with Quarterstaves. Gain feat: Swords to Plowshares.
Tumbler (AP 1): You can pass through enemies when you tumble. +2 maximum dodge.
Kip Up (AP 1): You are immune to most knockdown effects and slippery surfaces. +2 to maximum dodge.
Cartwheel Charge (AP 1): After tumbling, you gain a +2 Morale bonus to Strength and Dexterity for 12 seconds.

• Passively provides: +2 to maximum dodge, and +20% Doublestrike while using staves.

Followthrough (AP 1): You gain +2 Strength and +4 Dexterity, +1 to hit and +2 damage with quarterstaves, +5% attack speed with quarterstaves, +2 critical hit damage with all weapons, +2 Balance, Jump, and Tumble, +2 Sneak Attack dice and +2 to hit when performing Sneak Attacks. After tumbling with a staff equipped, for 12 seconds gain +50% strikethrough chance and gain On Vorpal: Your target is knocked down.

Tier 1​

Acrobat Staff Training (AP 2): +1 to hit and +2 damage with quarterstaves.
Thief Acrobatics (AP 1): +1/+2/+3 Balance, Jump, and Tumble, +5%/+10%/+15% attack speed with quarterstaves.
Charming (AP 1): +1/+2/+3 Bluff, Diplomacy, Haggle, and Intimidate.
Sly Flourish (AP 1): Melee Attack: +1/2/3[W] with +1/2/3 critical threat range. On Sneak Attack: Intelligent target also gains a -1 penalty to Balance, Reflex, and Will saves for 20 seconds. (Stacks 5 times.) (Cooldown: 6 seconds)

• Passively provides: 5/10/15% threat reduction (Note: only reduces melee threat).

Fast Movement (AP 2): You run 1% faster for each of your Rogue levels if you are wearing cloth or light armor.

Tier 2​

Acrobat Staff Training (AP 2): +1 to hit and +2 damage with quarterstaves.
Trip Focus (AP 1): +1/+2/+3 to the save DC's of Trip Attacks at Tier 3 gain the Improved Trip feat.
Subtlety (AP 1): -20%/-30%/-40% threat generation with melee attacks. (This enhancement cannot be combined with other Subtlety enhancements.)
Quick Strike (AP 1): Melee Quarterstaff Attack: Deals +1/+2/+3[W] damage. You gain a 5%/15%/25% Morale bonus to melee doublestrike for 10 seconds. (Cooldown: 18/15/12 seconds)
Action Boost Multiselector (AP 1): Choose between Haste Boost and Sprint Boost.

Tier 3​

Acrobat Staff Training (AP 2): +1 to hit and +2 damage with quarterstaves.
Improved Second Strikes (AP 1): +5/10/20% Strikethrough chance.
Shadow Dodge (AP 1): +1/2/3 to Dodge, and Dexterity. +1/2/3 Maximum Dexterity while wearing light armor.
Sweeping Strikes (AP 1): Melee Quarterstaff Trip Cleave Attack: +1/3/5[W] to all nearby enemies and trips them. Listed DC: Balance DC 10 + Rogue Level + Dexterity Modifier + Trip Bonuses Negates trip. Cooldown: 30/25/20 seconds.

• Bug: Despite saying "all nearby enemies", the attack hits enemies in a 180 degree arc. This should be corrected to a 360 attack.
• Bug: Actual DC is a Strength save for 10 + Rogue Level + Dexterity Modifier + Trip Bonuses. This should be updated to the correct save above.

Dexterity or Strength (AP 2): Select +1 to Dexterity or Strength.

Tier 4​

Acrobat Staff Training (AP 2): +1 to hit and +2 damage with quarterstaves.
Improved Defensive Roll (AP 1): Defensive Roll now triggers at 30%/40%/50% or below health.
No Mercy (AP 1): You deal 10%/20%/30% additional damage to helpless opponents.
Staff Lunge (AP 2): Melee Quarterstaff Attack: Deals +2/4/6[W] damage as you dive through enemies in a line and to nearby enemies when you finish. (Cooldown: 30/25/20 seconds)
Dexterity or Strength (AP 2): Select +1 to Dexterity or Strength.

Tier 5​

Acrobat Staff Training (AP 2): +3 to hit and damage with quarterstaves. +10 Melee Power.
Staff Specialization (AP 2): You gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier and Threat Range with Quarterstaves. +25% Competence bonus to maximum hit points.
Improved Shadow Dodge (AP 1): +1/2/3 to Dodge, and Dodge Cap. +2/4/6 PRR while wearing light armor or clothing.
Spinning Staff Wall (AP 2): Activate to gain 50 PRR and 50 MRR for 20 seconds. Cooldown: 90 seconds.

• Passively provides: While wearing cloth or light armor, gain 5% Dodge, 5% maximum dodge, and 5 Maximum Dexterity Bonus with Light Armor.

Vault (AP 2): Quarterstaff Action: Use your quarterstaff to propel yourself forward at great speed. Requires you to have a quarterstaff equipped. (Cooldown: 15 seconds)

Shadowdancer Epic Destiny​

Core​

Shadow Training (EDP 1): You gain the Magical Training feat if you didn't have it already. Each core ability including this one grants +5 Melee Power and +4 Ranged Power, +1 Sneak Attack Dice, as well as 15 Maximum Hit Points. 50 Spell Points, +1 Epic DC, 5 Force Spell Power and 5 Universal Spell Power.
Step Through Shadow (EDP 1): Dimension Door SLA. Cooldown of 1 minutes.
The Darkest Luck (EDP 1): You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically by rolling a 1.
Cut to the Soul (EDP 1): +3% dodge bypass, +3% fortification bypass, +3% damage versus the helpless, and +3 Sneak Attack Dice.

Tier 1​

Stealthy (EDP 1): +1/2/3 Reflex Saves +2/4/6 Hide and Move Silently. Rank 3: Gain the Hide in Plain Sight feat. If you already have Hide in Plain Sight, you become invisible while stealthed.
Cover of Darkness (EDP 1): +10/20/30% less threat from all sources. Rank 3: Gain a permanent benefit of Nightshield.
Well of Darkness (EDP 1):
Assassinate (EDP 1): +2/4/6 to your Assassinate DCs and Poison DCs.
Technician (EDP 1): +2/4/6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock. Rank 3: +1 Sneak Attack dice.

Tier 2​

Sleight of Hand (EDP 1): +2/4/6 UMD. +25/50/75% damage and healing of your wands, scrolls and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/2/3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands. Note: This does not stack with Wand and Scroll Mastery.
Dance in the Dark (EDP 1): +1/2/3 Sneak Attack Dice.
Shadowform (EDP 2): Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle. Grants +25% Enhancement Insight bonus to movement speed, 25% Insight bonus to Sneak Speed, 25% Insight bonus to Cast Run Speed, and grants ghost touch on all attacks.
Lithe (EDP 1): +2/4/6 reflex saves, AC and light armor Max Dex Bonus, Dodge, and Maximum Dodge Bonus.
Epic Strike Multiselector (EDP 2):

• Shadowstrike (melee): Epic Strike: +5[W], +3 Critical Threat Range and Critical Damage Multiplier. Enemy must make a Fortitude save vs (20 + highest ability score + assassinate) or be cursed with Shadow Loss. Cooldown: 15 seconds.
• Shadowstrike (ranged): Epic Strike: +5[W], +3 Critical Threat Range and Critical Damage Multiplier. Enemy must make a Fortitude save vs (20 + highest ability score + assassinate) or be cursed with Shadow Loss. Cooldown: 15 seconds.
  
  Note: Shadow Loss: You no longer cast a shadow. In addition, you have -5 PRR, MRR, and Spell Resistance.

Tier 3​

Grim Precision (EDP 1): +2/4/6% Dodge Bypass, and you bypass 5/10/15% enemy Fortification.
Shadowstriker (EDP 2): +5% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Immunity to Energy Drain.
Depths of Darkness (EDP 2): While in your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle, you gain a +50% Insight bonus to Sneak Speed and a stacking 25% Incorporeality and 25% Concealment. Additionally, while sneaking you become Invisible and when exiting Invisibility you gain displacement for 20 seconds. This can only happen once every 20 seconds.
Epic Strike Upgrade (EDP 2):

• Dark Imbuement: Your Epic Strike now increases your melee range and imbues your weapons with Evil energies for 20s: You deal 1d6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped damage on hit (scaling with Melee or Ranged Power, or Force Spell Power if its higher), and on a vorpal strike, your attacks blind enemies with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
• Meld into Darkness: Your Epic Strike now grants you 15% uncapped dodge for 20s. When enemies miss you in combat while Meld is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.

Tier 4​

Pierce the Gloom (EDP 1): +1/2/3 Accuracy, to-hit with Sneak Attacks, to-hit while flanking. Rank 3: You gain immunity to Silence, Quell, and Blindness.
From the Shadows (EDP 2): From a stealthed position, Dissolve into shadows, before appearing some distance in front of you. This grants you the buffs from your Shadowdancer Epic Strike if you have them trained. Cooldown: 20 seconds. Note: This ability requires the character to have the Stealth feat active ("in stealth") to use it.
Dark Mercy (EDP 2): Your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle now grants you +5/10/15% Helplessness damage and your attacks gain Vamprism 3 and Feeding 30.

• Vamprism 3: This weapon thirsts for the blood of your enemies, healing you for +3d2 hit points with each hit.
• Feeding 30: On Vorpal Hit: Your target incurs one Negative Level, and you gain +30 Temporary Hit Points. (These Temporary Hit Points last for one minute, or until used to negate incoming damage.)

Bring Darkness (EDP 2): When you roll a critical hit on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, applying the Darkness debuff. If you have the feat First Blood, the trigger of First Blood now also applies the Darkness debuff

• Darkness: The target is no longer immune to Sneak Attacks. -3 Spell Resistance, -3 Physical Resistance Rating and -3 Magical Resistance Rating per stack. Lasts 20 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 3 stacks.

Epic Strike Upgrade II (EDP 2): Able to pick the other Epic Strike upgrade.

Tier 5​

Consumed By Shadows (EDP 1): From Sneak: Active attack. Enemy must make a Will save versus 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate or be beset by your shadow. Enemies affected have their Armor Class set to 0, and when they are hit, they take a stack of Vulnerability. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown: 1 minute. Note: This ability requires the character to have the Stealth feat active ("in stealth") to use it.
Just a Taste (EDP 1): +1 multiplier on an attack roll of 19-20 with bows, thrown weapons, crossbows, quarterstaves, and finessable melee weapons.
Greater Shadowform (EDP 2): You also gain +10 Force/Universal Spell Power. While in your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle, you float as if you had Feather Fall, gain +20 Hide and Move Silently, gain a +75% Insight bonus to Sneak Speed, and no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. Your Feeding and Vampirism are also upgraded to Feeding 60 and Vampirism 6.

• Vampirism 6: This weapon thirsts for the blood of your enemies, healing you for +6d2 hit points with each hit.
• Feeding 60: On Vorpal Hit: Your target incurs one Negative Level, and you gain +60 Temporary Hit Points. (These Temporary Hit Points last for one minute, or until used to negate incoming damage.)
• Note: As a result of the floating, you are also immune to Trip and Knockdown effects.

Shadow Mastery (EDP 2): Epic Moment: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 6d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% stacking Incorporeality, as well as the effects your Epic Strike as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies miss you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

• Note: The incorporeality provided by your Epic Moment does not stack with the bonuses gained from your Epic Mantle. But they do stack with effects such as Ghostly and Enhanced Ghostly.

Because I was told it was worth mentioning.. as for what Casters lost from the Shadowdancer Epic Destiny, I'd be perfectly fine with some of it getting merged into the Magus of the Eclipse Destiny.. and if there is enough leftover for the community to want a shadow based illusion focused Epic Destiny, they always have the option of adding in a Shadowcaster Destiny, which has always been the caster cohort to the Shadowdancer back in 3.5 D&D. That way we can retain the identity of the Shadowdancer without trying to make it a strange hybrid that ended up doing nothing overly well.

Sneak System and AI Adjustments​

Some stealth changes that I'd really love to see in addition to the above changes... set mob AI triggers to have several states. Passive, Alert, and Active. If a mob is passive then when a player would normally trigger their AI have it check against the stealth state of the character first.

If the character is Stealthed, then have it do a check against the Hide DC of the player. If it fails, then leave them in the passive state until someone enters its aggro range again. If it succeeds then have the enemies switch to Active state and aggro the characters as normal.

When players move around while stealthed or invisible, have them trigger a Move Silently check against enemies in the area that are in the Passive state periodically, probably every seconds or so while moving. If they succeed, then enemies remain in the passive state. If they fail then enemies are raised to Alert state.

When an enemy is in the Alert state, have it make spot checks against the character's hide DC once every 6 seconds. If it succeeds then raise the enemy to the Active state. If it fails then remain in the Alert state. Have them repeat this for a number of attempts and then lower them to the Passive state if they fail each of the checks.

For the case of Invis, See Invis, and Truesight.. Invis should either autosucceed on hide checks, or should offer a significant bonus to the check. See Invis or Truesight should negate this benefit.

Stealthed players should still be able to sneak past enemies, champions, and the majority of bosses if their Hide and Move Silently are high enough. With or without Invis.

Reapers should remain a constant threat for players though, having a much higher than normal listen and spot check as well as see invis or truesight. They should not have an auto-win against stealth, but they should have a decent shot even against players that raise those stats heavily. Especially in higher levels of Reaper.

I believe this would simplify the aggro system for most enemies and allow a 'stealth' playstyle.

Some Additional Stealth QoL I'd love to see. In addition to the AI changes above.

• Allow triggering of switches, levers, and other mission specific items from Stealth. When they are triggered, have the character perform a move silently check against the enemies listen DC in the area. If they fail, raise the state of those enemies to Alert.
• Allow attacks from stealth. Making an attack from stealth should immediately trigger a move silently check against enemies listen DC. When an enemy is hit, all enemies should be raised to the Alert state.
• Combine Stealth and Stealth Movement Speed bonuses on enhancement trees where possible. Rank 3 of these skills should provide the Hide in Plain Sight feat.
• Shadowdancer should become Invisible on Stealth as a part of either its core abilities or as a part of the Stealthy destiny enhancement.
• Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle should allow characters to stealth at full movement speed when combined with movement speed while stealthed enhancements that have been maxed.
• Stealth Conquest options should be expanded upon for quests, making stealth play a viable option when you're able to get through the entire quest killing as close to the minimum of enemies as possible.

 

[Dergex]

Here no choice at all because Haste much better.

No tnx. Old version much better. +1 CC Holy bolt with 2d6 Good damage or +5 Holy/Law bolts drops like candy from quests much better than +1 Conjured Bolt.

Again, no choice here really.

Must be marked as green, because currently it's not stacking.

Now about fully removed spellcaster part...

No more 10% Spell Alacrity for my Necroillusionist? No tnx!
No more boost from Epic Strike to my caster damage, Warlock specifically? No tnx!
No more debuff to enemy from Epic Strike and core 4 too? No tnx!
No more Weird?!! No! Clearly no!!! 8)

Personally, I think the caster stuff should be merged over into the Magus of the Eclipse tree. Including Weird and spell alacrity.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

Personally, I think the caster stuff should be merged over into the Magus of the Eclipse tree. Including Weird and spell alacrity.

Then you need propose change to this ED too.
See, with your revamp caster currently used SD ED lose +20 force SP, +20 USP and 200 spellpoints only from core, and more from T1-T4. You cannot just add it to Magus because it do Magus clearly OP.

 

[Dergex]

Then you need propose change to this ED too.
See, with your revamp caster currently used SD ED lose +20 force SP, +20 USP and 200 spellpoints only from core, and more from T1-T4. You cannot just add it to Magus because it do Magus clearly OP.

My biggest issue here is that Caster is clearly not hurting for more power. They have Draconic Incarnation, Fatesinger, Magus of the Eclipse, and now Machrotechnic. While they might not give Force SP it does give plenty of USP and Spellpoints. They also have the ability to get no fails on Nat 1 with Fortitude (Draconic Incarnation), Will (Magus of the Eclipse), and now Reflex (Machrotechnic) so it's a really solid option for them.

Dex Based Skirmish Characters with a focus on Assassination and Trapping however really only have Shadowdancer.. Maybe Grandmaster of Flowers or Legendary Dreadnaught, though both of those are a far cry from what they actually want to focus on. Shadowdancer sacrifices a lot just to be viable for Casters right now and it's rough.

As it is right now, Shadowdancer is for very specific casters or a minor dip for people that don't already get evasion from somewhere else.

 

[Dergex]

I will also add, that if they feel like an illusion/shadow specific caster is something that the community actually wants... There's always the option of adding a Shadowcaster Epic Destiny. Shadowdancer was almost always an option for Monks and Rogues... Shadowcaster was the Caster version.

 

[SunTzu]

There should be some kind of self-healing in rogue enhancement, or shadowdancer epic destiny.

Dungeons & Raids are designed to assume everyone have decent self-healing nowadays. Scroll healings are FAR from it.

 

[Dergex]

There should be some kind of self-healing in rogue enhancement, or shadowdancer epic destiny.

Dungeons & Raids are designed to assume everyone have decent self-healing nowadays. Scroll healings are FAR from it.

You should check out my long post on the last page, haha. One of my suggestions was to add Feeding and Vampirism to the Shadowdancer Mantle.

 

[SunTzu]

You should check out my long post on the last page, haha. One of my suggestions was to add Feeding and Vampirism to the Shadowdancer Mantle.

Small number of healing is nullified by high reaper skull self-healing panelty.

We need some kind of high, stackable, temp hp.
Like Blightcaster, ES warlock, Blood Feast tier 5 filigree proc, Legendary Affirmation proc, Blood Strength.

Soul absorption
* 300 temp hp on kill(scale by level, 300 on max level), stackable by 4.
* 500 or 1000 temp hp on assassination

 

[Dergex]

Small number of healing is nullified by high reaper skull self-healing panelty.

We need some kind of high, stackable, temp hp.
Like Blightcaster, ES warlock, Blood Feast tier 5 filigree proc, Legendary Affirmation proc.

Soul absorption
* 250 temp hp on kill(scale by level, 250 on max level), stackable by 4.
* 500 or 1000 temp hp on assassination

That would be nice, but I'm not sure how likely it would be or where it would fit in. But I'd be cool with it.

 

[VinoeWhines]

That would be nice, but I'm not sure how likely it would be or where it would fit in. But I'd be cool with it.

I like the suggestions you propose and read through all of it, the only thing I would propose is that Assassin should get the +4 intelligence along with the +4 DEX, since INT is a stat that I use as do others, the change to Assassinate from INT to include DEX based had some people upset, though I wasn't one of them, as I was opened to it, so just as well, I would not shun INT as an option in the Cores. In fact the Cores should give passive +1 to stats to open up more choices in the Tiers to add things.

Knife in the Darkness: You gain proficiency with Kukris. You can also use your Dexterity/Intelligence modifier to hit with Daggers and Kukris Dexterity or Intelligence: Choose one: +1 Dexterity +1 Intelligence.
AP Cost: 1	Ranks: 1	Progression: 0	Requires: Level 1 Rogue

Dark Hunter gets Assassinate bonus' in their tiers: So should Assassins.

Assassin's Training: +[1/2/3] to your Assassinate DCs. This should be in tier for Assassins.
Also there should be a way to throw noise makers in Stealth and have a Smoke/Snap Trap as well.
Rogues should also have the ability to conjure a Displacer Beast, since Rogues were taken away the ability to create Construct dog, when Artificer came out.

Tier One​

Displacer Shadow Beast: Summon the apex predators of the Feywild, a dangerously intelligent hunter, to do your bidding once per rest. Cooldown: 20 seconds The Displacer Beast is a Magical Beast with a level equal to your current Rogue level plus any Epic levels. You can summon it in addition to any Summon Monster spell you might be using. Additional ranks in this enhancement increase your Displacer Beast Blur, Damage, Attack Speed, Movement Speed, and Fortification. Passive: +[5/10/15] Hitpoints
AP Cost: 1	Ranks: 3	Progression: 1	No requirements

Tier 2​

Displacer Shadow Beast Training: The Displacer Beast +[3/6/10] Primal bonus to hit and damage, +[2/4/6] Primal bonus to AC, and its attacks bypass [10/20/50]% of enemy Fortification. Third tier . When at 50% health your Displacer Beast will gain 30 seconds of Displacement(Cooldown 1 min.) and phase in and out of combat.
AP Cost: 1	Ranks: 3	Progression: 1	Reauires: Displacer Shadow Beast

I also argue for the fact that since Double Strike was removed in game for Two Weapon Fighting, they should have in the Enhancement, TWF Strikethrough, which would be on par to what we had before.

In fact Rouge/Stealth Tree should have DEX/INT/WIS as a choice in CORES and change Harper Agent to give Strikethrough instead of INT to hit and Damage in the Tree.

Knife in the Darkness: You gain proficiency with Kukris. You can also use your Intelligence/Dexterity/Wisdom modifier to hit with Daggers and Kukris.
AP Cost: 1	Ranks: 1	Progression: 0	Requires: Level 1 Rogue

Harper Agent enhancements​

Tier One​

Strategic Combat I: You can Strikethrough with your Melee weapon. Your Missile weapons Allows a 5% chance to AOE it's Damage at -50% of it's Damage
AP Cost: 2	Ranks: 1	Progression: 1	No requirements

 

[Dergex]

I like the suggestions you propose and read through all of it, the only thing I would propose is that Assassin should get the +4 intelligence along with the +4 DEX, since INT is a stat that I use as do others, the change to Assassinate from INT to include DEX based had some people upset, though I wasn't one of them, as I was opened to it, so just as well, I would not shun INT as an option in the Cores. In fact the Cores should give passive +1 to stats to open up more choices in the Tiers to add things.

Dark Hunter gets Assassinate bonus' in their tiers: So should Assassins.

Assassin's Training: +[1/2/3] to your Assassinate DCs. This should be in tier for Assassins.
Also there should be a way to throw noise makers in Stealth and have a Smoke/Snap Trap as well.
Rogues should also have the ability to conjure a Displacer Beast, since Rogues were taken away the ability to create Construct dog, when Artificer came out.

I also argue for the fact that since Double Strike was removed in game for Two Weapon Fighting, they should have in the Enhancement, TWF Strikethrough, which would be on par to what we had before.

In fact Rouge/Stealth Tree should have DEX/INT/WIS as a choice in CORES and change Harper Agent to give Strikethrough instead of INT to hit and Damage in the Tree.

I would be opposed to having a class capstone with +4 to two different stats, I only picked Dex because that was what the current meta scales off of. I wouldn't be opposed to keeping it at +2 Dex/Int though if people feel like it still matters for them. But I do think that it might hurt things a little bit for the overall meta of Assassin.

Personally, I would have zero issues with Assassin gaining Assassinate bonuses on their core abilities. It would fit and definitely reduce the load on them for AP. Would need to figure out something fun to put in that slot.

When it comes to adding a Displacer Beast as a pet.. I would be cool with it as a Rogue Archetype, but not as a baseline. I think it doesn't fit the standard concept for Rogues but it does sound like fun as an option for an Archetype.

I think that TWF/OH is a solid option for Rogues as it is, though they need to be able to max those out fairly easily with AP and items. If anything, I think Strikethrough only makes sense on a temporary basis similar to Tempest, but even then I think might be a bit much. I would much rather have solid working passives that easily strip sneak attack immunity and drop high health targets quickly as well as the ability to get into and out of combat in a skirmishing playstyle for Assassin, with solid Trap skills in Mechanic. Rogue shouldn't be too diluted in their abilities but taking that into consideration they do need to have really decent performance on the stuff that they do have to make it worth it.

 

[VinoeWhines]

The reason I would strongly suggest Strikethrough as an option, well more for Assassinate and Melee in general is to give TWF something back that was taken away from them. I use to be able to Assassinate 3 mobs consistently with Doublestrike prior to them removing the double procs of effects and a very, very rare chance to hit 4 targets with Offhand doublestrike. That got taken away as a "Collateral Damage" when they took away the Double Strike/Shot and just made it a base Double Damage now. We lost the ability to Assassinate 3 and super rare 4 mobs, the Devs have Strikethrough as a tool to put back what was there already. Allot of people that were using Double Strike/Shot 's procs as a staple to their cycle of attacks also suffered. Other class's can AOE instakill things.
Rouges should get back their ability to Assassinate 3 mobs like before, if invested in it, so Strikethrough would seem to be the path to accomplish this. Thief Acrobat can Strikethrough with Staff. A dagger/kopesh should be able to slice through 3 bellies if timed right.

In regards to pets Mechanic Tree had a pet and they took it away, they should get their pet back.
Assassins had Cheat Death(similar to Monks Rise of the Phoenix) and should get that back that was taken away. Also Vorpal with any attack.
This use to be On Live before:

Rogue Cheat Death: +2 dexterity and a chance of self-resurrection, but this chance drops each time you die and Maruts dislike you.
AP Cost: 2	Level: 20	Progression: 74	Requires: Level 20 Rogue

Lethality: Any sneak attack that also counts as a vorpal strike (attack roll of 20 followed by critical confirmation) that you make will kill most living targets.
AP Cost: 1	Progression: 30	Requires: Nimbleness, Level 18 Rogue

 

[Dergex]

I'd much rather Assassinate be a cone attack at that point rather than relying on a Strikethrough mechanic.. But more realistically, I'd rather Shadowdancer have a much more reasonable way to take out multiple mobs, either through their Epic Moment or another cooldown ability in their destiny.

I think the Iron Defender makes a lot more sense for Artificer than Mechanic personally, and would rather Mechanic focus more around traps and their crossbow and just be insanely good at it. Though, I wouldn't complain if Mechanic got an Iron Defender pet similar to Artificer I'm not gonna start asking for it since I would rather shore up their core features and make them incredibly solid.

I have no problems with Rogues getting Cheat Death somewhere in their trees, probably somewhere in the top end Thief Acrobat.

My issue with Strikethrough is that it seems to be reserved primarily for THF characters and not SWF or TWF characters. It's a mechanic that's simply baked into them. The one exception to this is a temporary Tempest ability in the T5 of their enhancement tree. I'd personally rather not step on toes there and would instead ask for something as good or better that fits the core identity of Rogue.

 

[Dergex]

Dark Hunter gets Assassinate bonus' in their tiers: So should Assassins.

Assassin's Training: +[1/2/3] to your Assassinate DCs. This should be in tier for Assassins.

Also, I just looked. Dark Hunter doesn't have Assassinate in their Core abilities. They also have Assassin's Training at Tier 2 that costs the same amount and gives the same bonus. You may be thinking back to a test build.

 

[VinoeWhines]

The thing is ddo stepped on Mechanic because it DID have the Mechanical pet before Artificer came out. It was there originally and should not of been removed and given only to Artificer. It's not like a new proposal to get what was there before.
I don't mind if they make Assassinate a Cone Kill, maybe a Great Cleave Attack with first version being Cleave Assassinate then Great Cleave Assassinate distance. Though Strikethrough would make more sense as you are dashing through a melee attack and it's a Physical Attack and not a Sonic or Air attack that follows a Cone. It could also be exclusive to only Assassinate and not other basic type of Attacks.
The bottom line is that it was Double Strike which meant two Assassinates per handed(Left/Right hand) and the Doublestrike caused each hand to be able to get a second Assassinate attempt. Again this WAS the norm and because of trying to "fix" lag they collateral removed this ability, that had nothing to do with lag(And lag was still front and center after the change)

How the devs put it back can be an open discussion but it seemed that Strikethrough would be the possible choice;
(or make it similar to Improved Imbuement: Dark Imbuement now increases your melee range. Can also be Assassinate Range.)
Many Melee builds are at a disadvantage verses AOE Casters that Mass Hold/CC mobs and then obliterate the group, while melees have to run up to mobs and are at a safety disadvantage of getting taken out by second or third mob that comes into Cleave range. Melee class is the most dangerous class to be in, in upper Reapers, since your at striking distance of getting taken out, while Casters and Range toons fight from a safe distance away. (that could be a separate discussion though)

It would be great to be able to throw an AOE Bear traps(maybe 5 traps), kind of how like cops throw Spike Strips to disable tires on a car.
Dark Hunter already does this with their Snap Trap: Toss a snapping trap at the targeted enemy. If they don't make a Fortitude Save (DC20 + Dex/Int/Wis Mod + Assassinate DCs + Bonus Trap DCs) they are rooted in place by the trap's jaws for 12 seconds. Cooldown: 12 seconds.
The fact that Assassinate is in the DCs only makes sense. We shouldn't have to splash another class of 3 levels for something that originally was a Class specific ability in Traps/Making/Disabling.

In regards to Displacer Beasts, I think the lore of Rogues were known to hunt them and keep their eyes in pouches to use as a form of Stealth/Displacement or shifting, can't remember which one it was. Though wouldn't mind it in Shadow Dancer Tree, though could of been added to Assassin Tree just as Dark Hunter has a pet wolf.
Look at how Dark Hunter steps on soo many toes of Assassin Tree and even gets better options...
Assassinate DC's (standalone)
Throw Traps-abilities 50% less damage from Traps
Primal Sneak Dice
While you are sneaking, you gain a 5% enhancement damage bonus to your melee, ranged abilities

 

[VinoeWhines]

Also, I just looked. Dark Hunter doesn't have Assassinate in their Core abilities. They also have Assassin's Training at Tier 2 that costs the same amount and gives the same bonus. You may be thinking back to a test build.

Yes Dark Hunter's Assassinate is in the Tiers like I stated. Falconry has it as well.
Wasn't thinking of a test build but more in line of Assassins Tree doesn't have the ability to choose Assassinate DC's like in Dark Hunter, grant it assassinate DC's in total are theoretically higher if you include Measure the Foe from the Assassin Tree, but Falconry and now Dark Hunter have a stand alone Assassinate DC that doesn't require you as an Assassin to be in stealth to increase it.

 

[Dergex]

Yes Dark Hunter's Assassinate is in the Tiers like I stated. Falconry has it as well.
Wasn't thinking of a test build but more in line of Assassins Tree doesn't have the ability to choose Assassinate DC's like in Dark Hunter, grant it assassinate DC's in total are theoretically higher if you include Measure the Foe from the Assassin Tree, but Falconry and now Dark Hunter have a stand alone Assassinate DC that doesn't require you as an Assassin to be in stealth to increase it.

Gotcha, makes sense. I could easily see it being mixed into Toxin Affinity or even into Sneak Attack Training. It could be mixed into the Cores as well, I really wouldn't have much of an issue with that.

 

[Dergex]

No tnx. Old version much better. +1 CC Holy bolt with 2d6 Good damage or +5 Holy/Law bolts drops like candy from quests much better than +1 Conjured Bolt.

Wanted to reply to this here, I've got no issues with using up these sort of bolts, but keep in mind that enhancement bonuses from Ammunition only matter when your Ranged Weapon has a lower enhancement bonus on it. They're not added together for the purposes of damage or anything else. When it comes to the effects of 2d6 Good Damage or 1d6 Good + 1d6 Law Damage, it's not bad either. But I would much rather have a stack of 100 bolts that are 100% returning baked into the enhancement tree.

Fletching only provided 80% returning at the cap, and it just felt kind of rough at times. If they raised the returning rate on Fletching to 100% at Tier 3, or allowed Returning to stack so you could use Sturdy bolts for 100% Returning chance.. I'd be a lot more interested in it!

 

[Fisto Mk I]

Fletching only provided 70% returning at the cap

80%. It's mean any 100 bolt stack really is 500 bolt. More than enough for me. I play as Mechanic very oft... and cannot empty my quiver, because nice holy/law bolts drops faster than i spend it. Conjure bolt ability just don't needed with Fletching, really.

 

[Dergex]

80%. It's mean any 100 bolt stack really is 500 bolt. More than enough for me. I play as Mechanic very oft... and cannot empty my quiver, because nice holy/law bolts drops faster than i spend it. Conjure bolt ability just don't needed with Fletching, really.

I mean, that's fair. I typo'd a 7, lol. But still, wish it was 100%.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

I mean, that's fair. I typo'd a 7, lol. But still, wish it was 100%.

Oh, i wish too, but i understand it must be too powerful. So i'm good at 80% with any bolts and 95% combined with Sturdy returning rate. 8)