Crustbucket
Well-known member
Posted previously in general to get ideas for a new direction for Sword and Board play. Wanting to do a Universal tree and am currently working on my "Platebreaker" idea utilizing shields and blunt weapons to both deal moderate damage and destroy armor/prr on enemies BUT i found the current feats to scattered and not very standalone to a playstyle that should be able to be picked up and run with even without enhancement support. You can pick up Twf/Swf/2Hf and run for the most part a pretty decent elite level toon out the box, Sword and board relies too much on Vanguard and is not standalone.
To make S&B feel good when picked up for NEW players and old i have proposed these changes to the feats to make playing them feel more modern and versatile.
Tower Shields: Seem to be the only shield with a Max Dex Bonus, i think they either should remove it as the armor check penalty is steep enough and no one uses towers as it caps dodge in higher difficulties OR they smack a nice flat 5-10% Flat Damage Reduction to the items itself solidifying it as a solid defensive option. No reason why carrying around half an armory on your arm doesn't yield some standing defense as enemies may accidentally hit the giant metal wall you carry or it would deaden the blow. You arent dodging with it so embrace the added defense. Towers atm are all tradeoffs and no boons.
For Example feats could be tweaked:
Shield Mastery: You've learned to carry the weight of your gear and are no longer hindered by its weight.
*You gain: 2% Flat Damage Reduction (Standing), +5PRR&MRR and gain +5% Combat style bonus to attack and movement speed while holding a shield. Your Equipped sword and shield gain 1.25x Ability modifier*
(We removed Doublestrike as i think it should be a gear/enhancement bonus route. You would chose for further defenses or offense and DS doesn't apply to shields until your T5 Divine crusader anyways so ... it seems like its not quite synergistic and not immediately user friendly. Also no Melee Power as we gain defenses, utility in movement for staying ahead of the party to tank or maneuver as well as attack speed. Thematically we are able to swing and move faster due to our training but not as fast as SWF as we have the inertia of the shield)
Improved Shield Mastery: You carry a shield as if it were an extension of your body.
*You gain: 4% Flat Damage Reduction (Standing), +15PRR&MRR and gain +10% combat Style bonus to attack and movement speed while holding a shield. your equipped weapon and shield gain 1.5x Ability Modifier*
(Further skilled, faster, better at defending etc)
Now at around level 8 i believe shields need two options here for feats similar to offhand versatility for SWF.
Shield Striker: Req BAB +8, Shield Mastery Anti-Req: Shield Guardian
You are adept at using your shield as an offensive tool.
*You gain 0.25% more from your ability modifier while holding a shield, 5 Melee Power and +20% additional chance to shield bash.*
OR
Shield Guardian: Req BAB +8, Shield Mastery Anti-Req: Shield Striker
You are adept at blocking and directing blows away from your party
*You gain +4% Damage reduction while holding a shield and +50% Melee threat generation*
(This one is odd since id like to bake into absorption from the other feat to keep it simple but i really like the idea of flat reduction with a shield. I also think all towers should have 5% additional Damage reduction just for holding them as they are hard to completely fight around and we dont have a %chance to deflect blows in DDO)
Greater Shield Mastery: You are the frontline of the party, you are steadfast in your craft.
*You gain 6% Flat Damage Reduction (Standing), +25PRR/MRR and gain 15% Combat style bonus to attack and movement speed while holding a shield and you now apply 1.75x your ability modifier to your equipped weapon and shield*
Legendary Shield Mastery:
Your shield gains 1[W] dice, you gain +20% additional chance to shield bash and +5PRR/MRR while holding a shield.
All 5 of these feats would count towards your heroic durability and would bolster your hit points respectively.
Things of Note:
1 .Vanguards attack speed with shields could be changed to doublestrike in the tree for offensive punch easily.
2. Shield specialty would need to be looked at though as swashes in particular would benefit a tad too much from the movement speed i believe.
3. Stalwart movement speed is Action boost and would stack, but sprint boost would gain marginal utility at this point.
4. I do believe though with the movement speed i think something would need to be addressed for casters but that's no reason to spoil it for all toons.
5. I think these changes would also prevent it from being a noob trap if your starting up and say are rolling a "Warpriest" you played on pen and paper or something of the like you wouldn't fall behind or feel so sluggish around level 6-8 when the game picks up in enemy hp and damage for the first time.
If we can get something like this into the game i would hope to see many a toon play Barbarian Occult slayer tanks, Warpriest S&Bs, Some flavor builds like a S&B Warchanter good ole Axe and shield thematic goodies, It would buff up some Vanguards and i think thats ok, honestly THF is still going to clear faster, your tanks may get some moderate boost to damage and even if you get the Helm Vanguard Pali i don't think it unreasonable to have a highly skilled and trained Paladin be stronger than a warpriest or eldritch Knight. Also S&B builds with on hit effects like your imbue system would not be strictly penalized on attack speed as compared to a purely offensive option in SWF, alchemists could even make it work too! Build diversity is the goal.
To make S&B feel good when picked up for NEW players and old i have proposed these changes to the feats to make playing them feel more modern and versatile.
Tower Shields: Seem to be the only shield with a Max Dex Bonus, i think they either should remove it as the armor check penalty is steep enough and no one uses towers as it caps dodge in higher difficulties OR they smack a nice flat 5-10% Flat Damage Reduction to the items itself solidifying it as a solid defensive option. No reason why carrying around half an armory on your arm doesn't yield some standing defense as enemies may accidentally hit the giant metal wall you carry or it would deaden the blow. You arent dodging with it so embrace the added defense. Towers atm are all tradeoffs and no boons.
For Example feats could be tweaked:
Shield Mastery: You've learned to carry the weight of your gear and are no longer hindered by its weight.
*You gain: 2% Flat Damage Reduction (Standing), +5PRR&MRR and gain +5% Combat style bonus to attack and movement speed while holding a shield. Your Equipped sword and shield gain 1.25x Ability modifier*
(We removed Doublestrike as i think it should be a gear/enhancement bonus route. You would chose for further defenses or offense and DS doesn't apply to shields until your T5 Divine crusader anyways so ... it seems like its not quite synergistic and not immediately user friendly. Also no Melee Power as we gain defenses, utility in movement for staying ahead of the party to tank or maneuver as well as attack speed. Thematically we are able to swing and move faster due to our training but not as fast as SWF as we have the inertia of the shield)
Improved Shield Mastery: You carry a shield as if it were an extension of your body.
*You gain: 4% Flat Damage Reduction (Standing), +15PRR&MRR and gain +10% combat Style bonus to attack and movement speed while holding a shield. your equipped weapon and shield gain 1.5x Ability Modifier*
(Further skilled, faster, better at defending etc)
Now at around level 8 i believe shields need two options here for feats similar to offhand versatility for SWF.
Shield Striker: Req BAB +8, Shield Mastery Anti-Req: Shield Guardian
You are adept at using your shield as an offensive tool.
*You gain 0.25% more from your ability modifier while holding a shield, 5 Melee Power and +20% additional chance to shield bash.*
OR
Shield Guardian: Req BAB +8, Shield Mastery Anti-Req: Shield Striker
You are adept at blocking and directing blows away from your party
*You gain +4% Damage reduction while holding a shield and +50% Melee threat generation*
(This one is odd since id like to bake into absorption from the other feat to keep it simple but i really like the idea of flat reduction with a shield. I also think all towers should have 5% additional Damage reduction just for holding them as they are hard to completely fight around and we dont have a %chance to deflect blows in DDO)
Greater Shield Mastery: You are the frontline of the party, you are steadfast in your craft.
*You gain 6% Flat Damage Reduction (Standing), +25PRR/MRR and gain 15% Combat style bonus to attack and movement speed while holding a shield and you now apply 1.75x your ability modifier to your equipped weapon and shield*
Legendary Shield Mastery:
Your shield gains 1[W] dice, you gain +20% additional chance to shield bash and +5PRR/MRR while holding a shield.
All 5 of these feats would count towards your heroic durability and would bolster your hit points respectively.
Things of Note:
1 .Vanguards attack speed with shields could be changed to doublestrike in the tree for offensive punch easily.
2. Shield specialty would need to be looked at though as swashes in particular would benefit a tad too much from the movement speed i believe.
3. Stalwart movement speed is Action boost and would stack, but sprint boost would gain marginal utility at this point.
4. I do believe though with the movement speed i think something would need to be addressed for casters but that's no reason to spoil it for all toons.
5. I think these changes would also prevent it from being a noob trap if your starting up and say are rolling a "Warpriest" you played on pen and paper or something of the like you wouldn't fall behind or feel so sluggish around level 6-8 when the game picks up in enemy hp and damage for the first time.
If we can get something like this into the game i would hope to see many a toon play Barbarian Occult slayer tanks, Warpriest S&Bs, Some flavor builds like a S&B Warchanter good ole Axe and shield thematic goodies, It would buff up some Vanguards and i think thats ok, honestly THF is still going to clear faster, your tanks may get some moderate boost to damage and even if you get the Helm Vanguard Pali i don't think it unreasonable to have a highly skilled and trained Paladin be stronger than a warpriest or eldritch Knight. Also S&B builds with on hit effects like your imbue system would not be strictly penalized on attack speed as compared to a purely offensive option in SWF, alchemists could even make it work too! Build diversity is the goal.
Upvote
1
