SERIOUS PLEA: 'You don't automatically fail saving throws on a roll of 1.' to evasion is necessary

[EvilDragon]

Title is a bit baiting.
The actual thing I want is this:

• Evasion: "When you fail saving throws on a roll of 1, you don't automatically fail saving throws against traps on a roll of 1 for a second."

I believe this is why everyone doesn't want to play a trapper in Hardcore server. If Mighty Dice God hates you, you'll get a series of rolling 1 on multiple trap hits, you'll just die.

For example, let's say you are a rogue that has a good saving throw. Your reflex is quite good.
Now you're going to disable a trap. Somehow a trap attempted to hit you 5 times in a second.

1. fail on 1. Take 200 damage. (timeline: 0s)
2. fail on 1. Take 200 damage. (timeline: 0.1s)
3. fail on 1. Take 200 damage. (timeline: 0.2s)
4. fail on 1. Take 200 damage. (timeline: 0.3s)
5. fail on 1. Take 200 damage. (timeline: 0.4s)
6. You took 1,000 damage within 0.5 seconds. You are dead.

Now, let's say you have the said feature.

1. fail on 1. Take 200 damage. (timeline: 0s)
2. rolled 1, but your reflex is high enough. Saving throw success. (timeline: 0.1s)
3. rolled 1, but your reflex is high enough. Saving throw success. (timeline: 0.2s)
4. rolled 1, but your reflex is high enough. Saving throw success. (timeline: 0.3s)
5. rolled 1, but your reflex is high enough. Saving throw success. (timeline: 0.4s)
6. You took 200 damage within 0.5 seconds.

This will make players feel better to play trappers.

 

[seph1roth5]

I always feel a bit bad for trappers on HC. If I could donate astral shards to them I would lol, after particularly nasty quests like another man's treasure anyway.

 

[Ying]

The overwhelming majority of traps can be bypassed with game knowledge and experience without disarming them.

Wear a shield if you're bad at trapping. Or play a Dark Hunter which takes half damage from traps. Or both. Or buy Froggo. Or let someone else who knows how to trap do it.

Evasion does not need no-fail on a 1 baked into it.

 

[EvilDragon]

The overwhelming majority of traps can be bypassed with game knowledge and experience without disarming them.

Wear a shield if you're bad at trapping. Or play a Dark Hunter which takes half damage from traps. Or both. Or buy Froggo. Or let someone else who knows how to trap do it.

Evasion does not need no-fail on a 1 baked into it.

The point is still when dice god hates you no matter how competent you are, but also this suggestion is not a full no-fail on a 1. It's conditional.

 

[DDObot]

*Illusion traps from strahd have entered the chat*

 

[PurpleSerpent]

There are a couple of ways to make yourself totally immune to auto-fails on saves. I can think of two at present, although I recognise neither of these is ideal; I think there might be a couple of better ones out there but I'm not totally sure where to look.

One solution is the "Saves Boost" action boost from the Human, Half-Elf and Purple Dragon Knight racial trees. Unfortunately, this triggers for a very short time and has a limited number of uses per rest, so you'd need to know a multi-hit trap was coming for it to help.

The other possibility I know of is the three "Epic Saves" feats, which make you permanently immune to auto-fails on one particular save each. Sadly, these unlock at level 27, which is pretty late to be of use in this case.

 

[Ying]

The point is still when dice god hates you no matter how competent you are, but also this suggestion is not a full no-fail on a 1. It's conditional.

If you're competent then you don't take trap damage.

If you're new to trapping, you will probably die more times than you want to admit. Dying is part of the game. When you get tired of dying, you have the needed motivation to become a better player.

 

[Dergex]

The point is still when dice god hates you no matter how competent you are, but also this suggestion is not a full no-fail on a 1. It's conditional.

Disabling Traps is as much a 'skill' as it is a skill. Almost every trap has a way to get to the trap box without having to cross the path of the trap. For those that don't, it's fairly survivable and pretty easy to time your way through. Beyond that, it's already possible when you get to epic levels to no longer auto-fail on a 1 for Reflex, Will, and Fortitude saves if it's something that you're wanting to do.

I don't think that they should put in an invulnerability window for saves like you're describing otherwise it will seriously devalue the current epic options as they are now.

With all of that said, I can at least assure you that it does indeed get better when you gain more 'experience' and experience.

 

[popejubal]

The overwhelming majority of traps can be bypassed with game knowledge and experience without disarming them.

Wear a shield if you're bad at trapping. Or play a Dark Hunter which takes half damage from traps. Or both. Or buy Froggo. Or let someone else who knows how to trap do it.

Evasion does not need no-fail on a 1 baked into it.

I would like to buy Froggo, but I'm not spending $75 for him. Since I already have Saltmarsh from DDO points, he's the only thing I'd be getting for that $75.

Wish there were a way to buy permanent gold seal hirelings from the DDO store. (Hint: SSG I'm telling you I want to give you money.)

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Easy solution: don't play that hardcore thingy. ??

Come and play on live instead, with u... erm, I mean me. It's wonewey...

All I got for company is this damned Panther! ?

 

[EvilDragon]

I am not talking every roll 1 should not fail. I specifically wrote a condition where none of your skills will be involved in.

• "When you fail saving throws on a roll of 1, you don't automatically fail saving throws against traps on a roll of 1 for a second."

It's only 1 second grace against traps when you rolled 1.


Let's say the blading trap part in VON5. You need to stand on traps while you're disabling.
Where is the skill here? Am I missing any exact skill issue here?

 

[Ying]

Evasion doesn't need to change to acommodate some corner case with traps that isn't a real issue. It's one of the most powerful defenses in the game. Some would argue it's too good already. If you stand in the trap and roll a 1, you deal with it.

 

[EvilDragon]

Still, I see that is an issue. I am fine with any implementation that can solve that if you're not a fan of tweaking Evasion, like action boosts that doesn't let you not force-fail on 1, but I believe this is worse because you'll never fail the traps. or any rogue enhancement that does the thing.

 

[DYWYPI]

If you are a pure Rogue you can typically just quickly run through traps – at any time – and most likely not get hit. Of course timing also helps – I wear Feather Fall. You might be able to 'Tumble' through them to reduce damage or use Uncanny Dodge, etc.

Also decide upon which wall(s) you want to hug (plan your route) when running to reduce the chance of the blade arc in a Blade trap hitting you, etc.

The blades themselves can go about; one to two feet further than the recess itself, which isn't uncommon for the large horizontal type Blade traps. Don't rely upon that recess graphic itself (for actual damage zone area). That's the kind of thing a DDO newbie would get caught out with and if you were to get "lag" it can be extra dangerous.

You'd notice the same with the Level 2 quest: The Smuggler's Warehouse. Regarding the blade damage area extending slightly past the recess graphic. The blades on Smuggler's Warehouse ramp are much faster and harder to see than those in LoD. Although you can just walk through the centre of the ramp in Smuggler's Warehouse and not get hit. The same type of caution should be made with most types of traps. Even sprays will sometimes hit when it graphically looks like you aren't standing anywhere near the "active spay" of the jet, etc.

[...] Let's say the blading trap part in VON5. You need to stand on traps while you're disabling. ...

#untrap​

That's my Rogue in the above screenshot within the 'The Vault of Night' Raid, I'm perfectly safe from being hit. All the traps within that raid have safe places where you can stand to disable the control panels.

As a rule nearly all Control Panels in the game are positioned where it's completely safe to stand when performing: Disable.

The quest: Prove Your Worth (Epic) is rare; since it actually has one moving spinning blade trap, where several whirling blades will ALL eventually catch you up and make it hard to disable... But, only if you dally by the Control Panel for far too long LOL.

If you've never played a Rogue before then; yes, you might do something reckless like stand within arm's length of a blade trap or acid spay searching for a Control Panel (and get hit). I'd typically recommend keeping at least an arm's length away from mechanical traps (if possible) when performing Search. Since the graphics animations aren't always synchronised; or exact as to where they can hit you, it's something you typically learn early on, usually long before Level 10, if playing a Rogue.

[...] The other possibility I know of is the three "Epic Saves" feats, which make you permanently immune to auto-fails on one particular save each. Sadly, these unlock at level 27, which is pretty late to be of use in this case. ...

Shadowdancer (level 26 Core), The Darkest Luck: You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically by rolling a 1.

Therefore, the feature exists in a limited sense, if you have the prerequisites. The Darkest Luck, is similar to the Epic Reflexes feat that you mentioned.

 

[Mand O'Lin]

For example, let's say you are a rogue that has a good saving throw. Your reflex is quite good.
Now you're going to disable a trap. Somehow a trap attempted to hit you 5 times in a second.

1. fail on 1. Take 200 damage. (timeline: 0s)
2. fail on 1. Take 200 damage. (timeline: 0.1s)
3. fail on 1. Take 200 damage. (timeline: 0.2s)
4. fail on 1. Take 200 damage. (timeline: 0.3s)
5. fail on 1. Take 200 damage. (timeline: 0.4s)
6. You took 1,000 damage within 0.5 seconds. You are dead.

So you want to change the trap saving throw mechanic for a 1:3.2 Million chance?!?!

What about the poor soul who get's happens to get crit'd 5 times in .5 sec?