Shadow Barbarian, rate my build

[Jodro]

Hello everyone, I'm doing some attempts to multiclass with da to get undead feature. There are some builds, but i just want to try my own.

I made this build, please help me make it better it or tell me if its not saveable and start over

Classes: 12 Barbarian, 10 Epic, 6 Dark Apostate, 2 Fighter, 2 Legendary
Race: Warforged · · · · · ·Alignment: Chaotic Good

· · ·Start Tome Final · · ·Incorp:· · 10% · · ·Displacement:· ·10%
Str:· · 16· · 0 · ·30 · · ·HP:· · · ·1603 · · ·AC:· · 24
Dex:· · 10· · 0 · ·12 · · ·PRR: · · · 102
Con:· · 18· · 0 · ·29 · · ·MRR: · · · ·28 · · ·+Healing Amp:· · 10
Int:· · 10· · 0 · ·10 · · ·Dodge: · ·6/25 · · ·-Healing Amp:· · 25
Wis:· · 10· · 0 · ·12 · · ·Fort:· · ·150% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · 10
Cha:· · ·6· · 0 · · 6 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 23
DR: 2\Adamantine· ·7%
Immunities: Sleep, Energy Drain, Nausea, Sickness, Exhaustion, Paralysis, Fear, Magic Missiles, Magical Controls and Compulsion

Class and Feat Selection
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Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Dark Apostate(1) Standard: Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Follower of Faith: Follower of the Lord of Blades
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Heal(4)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Tumble(4)
2 · · Dark Apostate(2) Domain: Luck Domain Tier I
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Heal(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Spot(1)
3 · · Dark Apostate(3) Standard: Adamantine Body
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Heal(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Spot(1)
4 · · Fighter(1)· · · ·Fighter Bonus: Power Attack
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(2)
5 · · Barbarian(1)· · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(4)
6 · · Barbarian(2)· · ·Standard: Extend Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(3), Jump(1)
7 · · Dark Apostate(4)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Heal(2)
8 · · Dark Apostate(5) Domain Feat: Luck Domain Tier II
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Heal(2)
9 · · Dark Apostate(6) Standard: Improved Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Deity: Bladesworn Transformation
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Heal(2)
10· · Fighter(2)· · · ·Fighter Bonus: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(2)
11· · Barbarian(3)· · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(3), Jump(1)
12· · Barbarian(4)· · ·Standard: Heavy Armor Training
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(1), Jump(3)
13· · Barbarian(5)· · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(1), Jump(3)
14· · Barbarian(6)· · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(1), Jump(3)
15· · Barbarian(7)· · ·Standard: Greater Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(1), Jump(3)
16· · Barbarian(8)· · ·Strength: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(1), Jump(2)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Heal(1)
17· · Barbarian(9)· · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(1), Jump(2)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Heal(1)
18· · Barbarian(10) · ·Standard: Toughness
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(1), Jump(2)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Heal(1)
19· · Barbarian(11) · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(1), Jump(2)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Heal(1)
20· · Barbarian(12) · ·Strength: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Intimidate(1), Jump(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Heal(2)
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Epic Barbarian Damage Reduction
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Toughness
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Crush Weakness
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Blinding Speed
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Deific Warding
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Epic Damage Reduction
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of Arborea
31· · Legendary(1)· · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Harbinger of Chaos
32· · Legendary(2)· · ·Strength: +1 Level up

Active User Controlled Stances
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Power Attack
Shadow Shrouding
Dread Mantle
Frenzy

Enhancements: 80 APs
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Warforged - Points spent: 14
Core1 Improved Fortification I
Tier1 Construct Toughness I
Core2 Constitution I
Tier2 Construct Toughness II
Tier2 Great Weapon Aptitude - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Improved Power Attack - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Memories of the Last War I: Front Lines
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Frenzied Berserker - Points spent: 33
Core1 Die Hard
Tier1 Extra Rage - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Power Rage - 3 Ranks
Core2 Frenzied Toughness I
Tier2 Extra Action Boost - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Blood Tribute - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Angry Arms - 3 Ranks
Core3 Frenzy
Tier3 Supreme Cleave - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Blood Trail - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Mad Munitions - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Constitution I
Core4 Frenzied Toughness II
Tier5 Focused Wrath - 2 Ranks
Tier5 Healing or Hurt: Accelerated Metabolism
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Occult Slayer - Points spent: 4
Core1 Weapon Bond
Tier1 Extend Rage - 3 Ranks
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Ravager - Points spent: 14
Core1 Furious Rage
Tier1 Ritual Scarring - 1 Ranks
Tier1 Barbarian Power Attack - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Hardy Rage - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Fear me!
Core2 Pain Touch I
Core3 Demoralizing Success
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Constitution
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Dark Apostate - Points spent: 11
Core1 Dark Apostate
Tier1 Shadowy Bulwark - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Apostate's Skills - 1 Ranks
Tier1 Apostate's Curse
Core2 Shadow Shrouding
Tier2 Enhanced Curse I
Core3 Enhanced Shadowform I
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Kensei - Points spent: 4
Core1 Kensei Focus: Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades
Tier1 Action Boost: Haste Boost - 3 Ranks
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Epic Destinies: 40 APs + 2 permanent Destiny Points
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Fury of the Wild - Points spent: 18
Core1 Die Hard
Tier1 Acute Senses - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Enduring - 1 Ranks
Tier2 Primal Scream
Core2 Die Harder
Tier2 I'm Always Angry - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Eternal Rage - 3 Ranks
Core3 Die Hardest
Tier3 Embrace the Pain - 3 Ranks
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Legendary Dreadnought - Points spent: 32
Core1 Fearless
Tier1 Dread Mantle
Tier1 Epic Tactics - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Dire Attack: Dire Charge
Core2 Weaponmaster
Tier2 Extra Action Boosts - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Life and Death - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Ghost Touch
Tier2 Combat Brute
Core3 Thick Skinned
Tier3 Strike Twice - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Epic Power & Precision - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Momentum Swing
Core4 Unparalleled Accuracy
Tier4 Lay Waste
Tier4 Kick While They're Down - 3 Ranks
Tier5 Action Hero
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Spells· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · School· · · · ·DC
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Dark Apostate Spells
L1: Inflict Light Wounds· · · · · · · · · · Necromancy· · · 11
L1: Nightshield · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Abjuration· · · 11
L1: Protection from Evil· · · · · · · · · · Abjuration· · · 11
L1: Remove Fear · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Abjuration· · · 11
L1: Shield of Faith · · · · · · · · · · · · Abjuration· · · 11
L2: Inflict Moderate Wounds · · · · · · · · Necromancy· · · 12
L2: Bear's Endurance· · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 12
L2: Bull's Strength · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 12
L2: Lesser Restoration· · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 12
L2: Remove Paralysis· · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 12
L3: Inflict Serious Wounds· · · · · · · · · Necromancy· · · 13
L3: Magic Circle Against Evil · · · · · · · Abjuration· · · 13
L3: Remove Blindness· · · · · · · · · · · · Conjuration · · 13
L3: Remove Curse· · · · · · · · · · · · · · Abjuration· · · 13
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Spell Like / Special Abilities
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Dismiss Rage· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·
Displacement· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·
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[seph1roth5]

I did a 20 DA melee recently and didn't care for it at all. Went war domain and maul, but it was so bleh I wound up changing to warpriest with some DA splash for imbues/form.

What are you wanting to get out of DA? As a full cleric I had lots of self-heals, but without negative energy aura it was a lot of work. Might as well have just not gone into DA form and used my positive heals.

 

[Jodro]

What are you wanting to get out of DA? As a full cleric I had lots of self-heals, but without negative energy aura it was a lot of work. Might as well have just not gone into DA form and used my positive heals.

Basically the undead form, seems better than wizards. And since i was there investing extra 6 points for 5% incorporeality - concealment,+2 imbues and ghost touch seemed good idea.

 

[Lofen]

Basically the undead form, seems better than wizards. And since i was there investing extra 6 points for 5% incorporeality - concealment,+2 imbues and ghost touch seemed good idea.

You're looking for undead form, I would imagine for the immunities, but then I notice your race is warforged and warforged already enjoy most of the same immunities.

I have to wonder what you are hoping to gain from being able to use undead form that made you look to it at the first place.

Also, you seem to be gaining 2 feats from fighter, and using them for heavy armor training (+3/+3) and another. For the sake of argument I'll focus on toughness.

If you were to go pure barbarian you'd miss out on the +10% incorporeal, +2 imbues and ghost touch, +3/+3 and toughness, and heavy armor proficiency.

You would gain core 18 and capstone from FB, giving you +20 Melee power, +6 strength, +4 constitution, +3 imbues, +1 critical damage multiplier on rolls of 19-20, and a 5% chance to deal 400 damage (*MP) on attacks.
The additional barbarian levels would give you better BaB, more HP, +3% damage reduction, more rages, and an additional +4 strength and +4 constitution while raging over your current build's rage.

I feel you would be better served going pure, unless there is some compelling reason that I am missing to strive to be undead.

 

[Arsont]

I just TR'd out of a Dark Apostate Build (My third? fourth?).

Like the poster above, I find going Warpriest with some points in DA for the form and imbue to be the best way to do a melee DA.
I find playing an undead really frustrating if you can't cast self-heals, since so many of the normal healing effects a barb would rely on are coded as positive healing. DA not having an aura for undead healing means you'd have to spam AoE inflict spells or use Harm for healing, neither of which your build can do. Since you'll have a decent sp bar, I'd swap Extend for Quicken, since it'll work on all your spells instead of just a couple.

Firstly, I'd suggest swapping to Wood Elf instead of Warforged, if you want to stay with the undead flavor. Warforged is pretty redundant with undead for immunities, though you would lose some of the other goodies (Namely some PRR and Melee Power). Wood elf gets falchions as Favored Weapons for 11 AP in T3 though, which in most cases is better than using greatswords (SoS being the obvious outlier). If you have PDK then Silvanus could work too, but I understand not having or not wanting to play an iconic.

If you're intent on going an undead barbarian-type build, may I suggest 12 DA/6 Barb/2 ftr instead of a 12 barb split? 12 DA gives you access to both Harm and Inflict Crit for more sp-efficient healing, as well as Inflict Mod Mass when you're in a horde of mobs and want to heal while also doing some damage (Similar to an aura).

Or, if you'd like to keep the heavy barb flavor (Greater rage @11, Epic Barb Damage Reduc @ 21), you could go 12 Barb/7 DA/1 Fighter. 1 fighter lets you keep Haste Boost, and 7 DA still gives you Inflict Crit and Inflict Light, Mass. Since you're not forgie, you free up a feat from taking Adamantine Body, and you could drop Heavy Armor Training to pick up Maximize, Empower, Stunning Blow, more Toughness, Weapon Focus, Dodge, Mobility (If you took Dodge elsewhere), etc. This means you can wear medium armor to get the full benefits of Greater Rage without sacrificing as much by dropping heavy armor. If you swapped Extend for Quicken, you could consider dropping Toughness and taking Maximize AND Empower for some solid self-heals. I'd further suggest swapping out Toughness at lv24 for Overwhelming Crit. A final feat list could look like:

1: Two-handed Fighting, 3: Maximize, 4 (F): PA, 6: Quicken, 9: Empower, 12: IC:Slash, 15: Imp. Thf, 18: Greater Thf

Just spitballing here, let me know what you think.

 

[Jodro]

You're looking for undead form, I would imagine for the immunities, but then I notice your race is warforged and warforged already enjoy most of the same immunities.

I have to wonder what you are hoping to gain from being able to use undead form that made you look to it at the first place.

Flavor basically. Undead barbarian feels like the exact opposite of a paladin. Originally this was supposed to be an undead melee/tankish build for undead party, but I try to make it doing it solo build too.

Firstly, I'd suggest swapping to Wood Elf instead of Warforged, if you want to stay with the undead flavor. Warforged is pretty redundant with undead for immunities, though you would lose some of the other goodies (Namely some PRR and Melee Power). Wood elf gets falchions as Favored Weapons for 11 AP in T3 though, which in most cases is better than using greatswords (SoS being the obvious outlier). If you have PDK then Silvanus could work too, but I understand not having or not wanting to play an iconic.

Yeah, when i first made that build i didn't even think of the wood elf falchion function. I had just unlocked warforged for the first time, saw his very cool skeleton like face and his enhancment tree (strikethrough, improved pa) along with lord of blades felt great for an undead barbarian.

Or, if you'd like to keep the heavy barb flavor (Greater rage @11, Epic Barb Damage Reduc @ 21), you could go 12 Barb/7 DA/1 Fighter. 1 fighter lets you keep Haste Boost, and 7 DA still gives you Inflict Crit and Inflict Light, Mass. Since you're not forgie, you free up a feat from taking Adamantine Body, and you could drop Heavy Armor Training to pick up Maximize, Empower, Stunning Blow, more Toughness, Weapon Focus, Dodge, Mobility (If you took Dodge elsewhere), etc. This means you can wear medium armor to get the full benefits of Greater Rage without sacrificing as much by dropping heavy armor. If you swapped Extend for Quicken, you could consider dropping Toughness and taking Maximize AND Empower for some solid self-heals. I'd further suggest swapping out Toughness at lv24 for Overwhelming Crit. A final feat list could look like:

1: Two-handed Fighting, 3: Maximize, 4 (F): PA, 6: Quicken, 9: Empower, 12: IC:Slash, 15: Imp. Thf, 18: Greater Thf

After that post i made countless build attempts for wood elf or warforged barb/da. And gotta say i was disappointed. Going big on barb means bad healing, big on da means mediocre self healing but bad on damage, going big on fighter means there is no point in barb ect. Basically renders this build only good in a party or you'll probably struggle. Tbh i haven't given up on the idea yet and keep doing some futile attempts from time to time ?

 

[Arsont]

Flavor basically. Undead barbarian feels like the exact opposite of a paladin. Originally this was supposed to be an undead melee/tankish build for undead party, but I try to make it doing it solo build too.

Yeah, when i first made that build i didn't even think of the wood elf falchion function. I had just unlocked warforged for the first time, saw his very cool skeleton like face and his enhancment tree (strikethrough, improved pa) along with lord of blades felt great for an undead barbarian.

After that post i made countless build attempts for wood elf or warforged barb/da. And gotta say i was disappointed. Going big on barb means bad healing, big on da means mediocre self healing but bad on damage, going big on fighter means there is no point in barb ect. Basically renders this build only good in a party or you'll probably struggle. Tbh i haven't given up on the idea yet and keep doing some futile attempts from time to time ?

I really like flavor builds, and I think you have a neat idea here. I'll probably use this theme for my next horc or forgie life, just to see how it feels. Since you're not relying on Warpriest, I think this would work equally well with warforged, horc, or wood elf.

The healing vs. damage question is really dependent on how much you think you'll be soloing vs. grouping. Something to keep in mind is that as a barb, your self-healing is really going to be mediocre in general for a while since you can't cast while raged by default, and even Blood Strength from Ravager is a bit unreliable.

I think that any variation of this build will do just fine for most content, and can probably do R1-3 pretty well solo once you gear it up and get a feel for the build. I find that being peak damage doesn't matter as much nowadays unless you're in a static group or trying to push raid, so making a few small trade-offs for better sustain is okay.

You could do something like 14 DA/6 barb and go T5 Frenzied? That'd give you really stable healing, while mitigating your loss in damage. I'm assuming you're taking Luck for the Displacement SLA? Might be better to take Destruction Domain so you can cast while raged, or just forgo self healing and take Strength Domain. Not sure what the enhancements would look like, but you'd probably want to dip into Warpriest a bit for the low-hanging fruit there.

I still think a 12/7/1 Barb/DA/Ftr build might work and is the most accurate flavor-wise; this is probably what I'll do when I try this build out on one my upcoming TR's. Like you seem to be, I'm the type that just doesn't want to give up on a cool build idea ?

 

[Jodro]

I really like flavor builds, and I think you have a neat idea here. I'll probably use this theme for my next horc or forgie life, just to see how it feels. Since you're not relying on Warpriest, I think this would work equally well with warforged, horc, or wood elf.

That's true, you can not use your religions weapon since there is no investment in warpriest and instead put some in kensei i guess.

You could do something like 14 DA/6 barb and go T5 Frenzied? That'd give you really stable healing, while mitigating your loss in damage. I'm assuming you're taking Luck for the Displacement SLA? Might be better to take Destruction Domain so you can cast while raged, or just forgo self healing and take Strength Domain. Not sure what the enhancements would look like, but you'd probably want to dip into Warpriest a bit for the low-hanging fruit there.

Regarding the domain if you don't go heavy on da the only valid options i see is strength or luck, one has no ability score damage to strength and strength for reflex, the other has displacement sla (great for flavor). If you go only 3 da (cause thats all you need for undead, and want more into barb/fighter) then the only option is strength.
With more da other domains are applicable, but tbh i don't see much need to cast spells while raged. So as countless people have told me better to go with war domain (If da is lvl 14) for holy sword sla

I still think a 12/7/1 Barb/DA/Ftr build might work and is the most accurate flavor-wise; this is probably what I'll do when I try this build out on one my upcoming TR's. Like you seem to be, I'm the type that just doesn't want to give up on a cool build idea ?

If you ever do it please post the build and your impressions of it

 

[Arsont]

Regarding the domain if you don't go heavy on da the only valid options i see is strength or luck, one has no ability score damage to strength and strength for reflex, the other has displacement sla (great for flavor). If you go only 3 da (cause thats all you need for undead, and want more into barb/fighter) then the only option is strength.
With more da other domains are applicable, but tbh i don't see much need to cast spells while raged. So as countless people have told me better to go with war domain (If da is lvl 14) for holy sword sla

Destruction would be more useful for a heroic leveler, since the "Cast while raging" would affect your heals, and kicks in with the first tier of the domain. War would be more damage than the other domains, even if you go t5 Frenzied, since you'd get +1/+2 crit mod (the +1 multi from Holy Sword wouldn't stack with Focused Wrath). As you said though, I think Strength is the only one useful if you go 3 DA.

If you were only going 3 DA though, I'd probably rather take 3 wizard and get the undead form from there (Wraith saves a slot on ghostly, but zombie might be okay even with the penalty to atk speed). DA shroud 1 only gets 5% blur and incorp, neither of which stack with items. Then you could also use some AP in EK if you wanted to pick up an imbue die and some PRR/MRR.