Shadowdancer Epic Strke

Baahb3

Well-known member
If the base Epic Strike for Shadowdancer has a ranged component, Shadowstrike-Ranged, and the Dark Imbuement upgrade works for ranged attacks, then Improved Imbuement needs to have a ranged combat component as well.

Maybe increasing PBS range by 5 meters to be similar in theme to the increased melee range.
 

VinoeWhines

Well-known member
Not only that but it should upgrade to the (Heroic lvl 3) Shattered Defense AOE Range Shot with an added +30% Damage to its First Tier damage for a total of +60% AOE Damage.
Same with the Melee version upgrade from 50% in First Tier to another 50% more damage. (Like Adrenaline does)


Tier III
*Dark Imbuement:
Melee: +50% AOE Damage. On hit, opponents must make a Fortitude save vs (DC 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate Bonuses) or be stunned.
Range: +30% AOE Damage. On hit, opponents must make a Fortitude save vs (DC 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate Bonuses) or be stunned.

* When you activate your Shadowdancer Epic Strike, you imbue your weapons and spells with Evil energies for 10 seconds. You deal 1d6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped damage on hit (scaling with the higher of Melee or Ranged Power), and on a Vorpal strike you Energy Drain opponents.

Meld should be moved to From the Shadows.

From the Shadows: From-Stealth Active (i.e. is sneaking): From a stealthed position, dissolve into shadows, before appearing some distance in front of you. You gain 20% Dodge that is not affected by your Dodge Cap for 10 seconds.
This grants you the buffs from your Shadowdancer Epic Strike if you have them trained. Cooldown: 20 seconds.

Tier IV
Improved Imbuement:

Melee: Your Epic Strike now increases your Melee range. +50% Damage.
Range: Your Epic Strike now increases your Point Blank Shot range by 15 Meters. +30% Damage.


It's a sad state when Shadow Dancer Tree is considered the hands down Universal SPLASH TREE, to not being taken seriously as a Tier V End Game Tree. (Example: tier V Greater Shadow Dancer Spell Focus....whats a Melee/Range character suppose to do with that choice taking up a useless slot.)

Tier V

It should be:(Choose one)
Greater Shadow Focus:
+1/2/3 Spell DCs
+2/4/6 Assassinate DCs
+5%/10%/15% Displacement
+5%/10%/15% Incorporeal
+5%/10%/15% Uncapped Dodge
-2/-4/-6 Cooldown to Tactics/Assassinate

Weird SLA should have it's DC include illusion + Assassinate, just like Dark Bargainers: Dark Ascended Bite includes Stunning + Necromancy.
 
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VinoeWhines

Well-known member
Unholy Feeding: You also gain +10 Force (10 Melee/Range) and Universal Spell Power. When you kill an enemy, you Heal for 2d6 per your Sneak Attack Dice and you gain 5 Temporary Hit Points and Spell Points per Sneak Attack Dice.
You also Temporary Gain +10 Force/Melee/Range and Universal Spell Power.
Your steps are ethereal, so you will not trigger Pressure Plates and Bear Traps.


Bring Darkness: When you roll a natural 20 on a Melee or Ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, applying a stack of Darkness.
If you have the feat First Blood, you Double the Damage(like Ruin Intensified) on Vorpal permanently Blind Non Boss mobs and it now triggers off of your harmful spellcasts, and when it procs, it also applies a stack of Darkness.

Darkness debuff: You are vulnerable to Sneak Attacks, -3 Spell Resistance, -3 PRR and -3 MRR per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 3 stacks. Hidden: +1 Sneak Attack dice. If you have the feat First Blood, you Double the debuff -6 Spell Resistance, -6 PRR, -6 MRR. Max 3 stacks.
Bug:
As of 10/2/2025, Darkness does not make the the target vulnerable to Sneak Attacks.
 
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VinoeWhines

Well-known member
Shadow Dancer Tree should of never lost Shadow Manipulation.

Why give it to a Range (safe Distance) Tree in Shiradi (Beguile Charm) that they never use anyway and "Stealth/Sneak Attack" type characters Need it for opening up Sneak Attacks with your "Charmed mob" drawing aggro when entering a room.
Same for Executioner Strike/Shot that got removed AND Implosion?

Just a Taste: should be a multi selector:

Just a Taste:
  • You have +1 Critical hit multiplier on roll of 19-20 with Bows, Thrown Weapons, Crossbows, Quarterstaves, and Finessable Melee Weapons
  • Executioner Strike/Shot: 25%/50%/75% chance to execute a mob. 30 second cooldown. Fortitude save vs DC 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate Bonuses.
  • Implosion: You create a destructive resonance field around yourself that lasts 10 seconds. Every 2 seconds, the aura causes one nearby corporeal enemy to collapse in upon themselves and die. Fortitude save vs DC 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate Bonuses. 60 second cooldown.
 

kmoustakas

Scourge of Xaos
Shadowdancer is actually a decent caster tree now. But still pretending to be a martial tree for some reason.
Some strikes/mantles are so bad that they make (few) good strikes/mantles seem overpowered in comparison. So instead of reworking the bad ones, they try to make everything equally terrible hoping nobody will remember the "good old times".

This doesn't work.
 

Qrvar

Well-known member
I think the Shadowdancer mantle is fine (not great), but the rest of the tree is very all over the place like it doesn't know what it wants to be.

And I know there are lots of people who swear by Shadowdancer for ranged on these forums, but only for the lack of alternatives, methinks.
 

Fisto Mk I

Well-known member
And I know there are lots of people who swear by Shadowdancer for ranged on these forums, but only for the lack of alternatives, methinks.
There really is no alternative, not for SD, but for FS, because Shiradi and GMoF are mandatory for shuri-monks.
 

VinoeWhines

Well-known member
Shadow Dancer for Casters isn't too bad. It gets:
  • Evasion-Improved Evasion.
  • Sneak Dice on Spells.
  • Force + Universal Spell Power.
  • -9 PRR/MRR Trap the Soul debuff.
  • Anti-Energy Drain.
  • Spell DC's.
  • Greater Spell DC's.
  • -10% Spell Cool downs.
  • Reduce Meta Magics
  • A Spell version of Melee First Blood Feat
  • Weird Spell AOE Instakill. (the DC should of been STAT+ illusion + Assasinate DC, like how Dhampir's Ascended Bite's Enchentment+Stun DC)
  • Dimension Door.(if you didn't train it)
The problem with this Tree is that the Melee-Range version is completely lacking as a Stealth/Helpless inducing/aggro evading Tree.
The Tree should build on:
  • Sneak and Helpless damage to synergize with its Sneak Dice.(And a way to induce Helpless Damage.)
  • It should have an AOE blind-glue snare. (This could be were Helpless Damage comes from.)
  • Should build on Magical/Physical Trap Damage with Sneak Dice/MP/RP. Able to inscribe Scrolls to Traps bigger catalog.
  • Should build in Tier IV-V to get Teleport-Evasion attack-escape, like the Rogue mini boss in Slave Lords part III (Nerals). They could of built that up with From the Shadows to give you Shadow Phase for the 20 second cooldown. Where you would Jaunt but be able to appear on the other side of the room undetected by mobs and if you pass through them they are Bluffed>upgrade to Stunned (Bluff DC save)
  • Should put back Shadow Manipulation. (to have your minion draw aggro) Like what Beguile/Charm does. Never should of removed it.
  • An AOE instakill.
  • Offhand Assassinate. (This got removed from Two Weapon Fighting, makes no sense.)Or put back Executioner's Strike/Shot.
  • Cool down on Tactics-Assassinate -5%/-10%/-15% Cooldown.
  • Elusive Target bonus ability.
This would be a start to making it a Stand Alone Tree and not a Splash Damage/Utility of a Tree with the problem that it is now.
 
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VinoeWhines

Well-known member
SplashDancer

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VinoeWhines

Well-known member
Each Core in Shadow Dancer should have a themed Evasion-Counterattack and Magical ability, like what the Descriptions Says, yet falls short.

Overview: Use the power of shadows and deadly illusion magic to terrify and consume enemies
(Where is the Consume part? oh ya it got removed, it should go back in as a Multi-Selector for Just a Taste.)

Just a Taste:

  • You have +1 Critical hit multiplier on roll of 19-20 with Bows, Thrown Weapons, Crossbows, Quarterstaves, and Finessable Melee Weapons
  • Executioner Strike/Shot: 25%/50%/75% chance to execute a mob. 30 second cooldown. Fortitude save vs DC 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate Bonuses.
  • Implosion: You create a destructive resonance field around yourself that lasts 10 seconds. Every 2 seconds, the aura causes one nearby corporeal enemy to collapse in upon themselves and die. Fortitude save vs DC 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate Bonuses. 60 second cooldown.

--------------------
The Cores should be a Magical SLA-Martial ability.

Core Abilities

Shadow Training:
You gain the Magical Training feat and are able to Tumble through Enemies.
You gain SLA:
Flaming Sphere (DC 20+STAT+Evocation+Assassinate vs Reflex save.)
Each Core ability in this tree, including this one, grants the following:

+1 Epic bonus to Spell DCs
+25 Maximum Hit Points
+25 Maximum Spell Points
+5 Melee Power
+5 Ranged Power
+1 Sneak Attack Dice
+5 Force and Universal Spell Power.
EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 0 Requires: None



Step Through Shadow: Dimension Door SLA. Cooldown of 2 minutes.
Gain Deflect Arrows Feat. If you have it trained you Deflect Arrows from 6 seconds to 3 seconds.
5% Uncapped Dodge, 5% Stacking Incorporeal, 10% Stacking Displacement.
EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: Progression: 5 Requires: Shadow Training, Character Level 23



The Darkest Luck: You gain the Evasion feat (normal Evasion rules apply). If you have Evasion, you gain the Improved Evasion feat. If you already have Improved Evasion, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically by rolling a 1.
SLA: Distract: Create an illusionary Shadow that appears at a targeted location, acting as a distraction and attracting attention of monsters who may be searching for you in the area. This will only successfully distract monsters who are not actively attacking. This ability may be used without breaking Stealth or Invisibility. Cooldown 30 seconds.
EDP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 10 Requires: Step Through Shadow, Character Level 26



Cut to the Soul: +3% Dodge Bypass, +3% Fortification Bypass, +3% Damage versus the helpless.
When you Tumble through Enemies they are Dazed for 3 seconds. If you have the Sap Feat, they become Stunned for 3 seconds if no damage is applied.
You gain SLA: Trap the Soul(DC: 20+STAT+Conjuration+Assassinate vs Will): If you already can cast the spell Trap the Soul, it automatically applies 3 stacks of the Darkness debuff even if the enemy survives the spell. Darkness debuff: You are vulnerable to Sneak Attacks. -3 Spell Resistance, -3 PRR and -3 MRR per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 3 stacks.

Just as Machrotechnic gives anyone Rune Arm use, this Tree should give SLA use, as it also grants Sneak Dice. (as a Caster - Martial Tree hybrid)
 

Buddha5440

"There are some who call me...Tim"
Most, if not all, of the suggestions here are over-powered. The tree (like all) could use a little tweaking but some of these would make it Demigod status.
 

VinoeWhines

Well-known member
SLA's flaming sphere/distract is over powered? A little flame ball that practically does nothing but distract for a few seconds?

Trap the Soul is an SLA like Weird. That Casters can already do.

Rune Arm use with having no Artificer is demigod in Machrotechnic as an example?
It also gives a Radiant Prison CC and works on Reapers.
Epic Destinies gives you feats and abilities in the Trees that you would normally not have.

This Tree is about Evasion-Manipulation, Distraction and Deadly illusion or at least according to its Description/theme.


Fury of the Wild and Dreadnought and Fatesinger and GMoF have Stuns and some Self Heals in its own Tree....

Distract is just a replacement for Shadow Manipulation(Beguile Charm is more powerful as a Dominate ally in Shiradi - a ranged safe Epic Destiny)

Were is the over-powered demi-god coming from? Evasion-stun?
Right now its just a Splash Tree.

Shadow Dancer got neutered into an orphaned Tree for Martial Stealth Players.
Adding 10HP more per Core and Deflect Arrows?

Look at GMoF and how it gets:
DR weapon bypass
Allignment bypass
25% Element Absorption
Deflect Arrows
AOE 1d6+5 per Character Force Damage Stun(Fury gets a 3d6x3 Slash Damage per Character every 2 seconds for 8 seconds?)
Self Heals

Fury of the Wild also has Adrenaline 225% Damage stacked on next hit with a Stun and Huge Self Heals with Rage and Primal Scream.

Shadow Dancers Epic Strike damage is very low in upper Reapers and has no CC or ability to Stun.

Meld into Darkness shouldn't be an Epic Strike but should be tied with From the Shadows as an Evasion, escape ability.

Stealth-illusion players need a Tree focused on what their Class was built for. They got the illusion part done that is ok but completely left out the Stealth Martial player far behind from what it had before and completely lacks now compared to other Martial Trees.
 
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VinoeWhines

Well-known member
A little Tweaking will bump it up to a bigger Splash investment Tree, ya sure everyone wants that when their Tree is their Alpha Choice but .....Dare it be considered ......a Main Tree for Classes that are built around Stealth-illusion (more so the Stealth-Deadly Shadow aspect Class).

I would think a Dire Charge(stun) Epic Strike or Adrenaline/Quick Cutter Epic Strike would of been somewhat ok but not thematic but usable in Tree.
Every Melee character is forced to take Fury of the Wild as it is the De Facto choice.

This Tree needs to be a valid: Overview: Use the power of shadows and deadly illusion magic to terrify and consume enemies Tree for Martial classes.

I would very much welcome a discussion on discrepancies on this Tree as an Honest discussion when compared to other Trees(as to what they offer) vs Splash Dancer.
 
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Raedier

The Druid
Problem with SD is it is already a nearly mandatory splash for every melee/ranged build and very strong for casters so how do you buff it without making it overpowered?
Probably just tweaking the mantle and t5 a bit would fix most of it's issues.
 

woq

Well-known member
Problem with SD is it is already a nearly mandatory splash for every melee/ranged build and very strong for casters so how do you buff it without making it overpowered?
Probably just tweaking the mantle and t5 a bit would fix most of it's issues.
By buffing t5 and/or moving some of the power higher up the tree, yep.
 

VinoeWhines

Well-known member
By buffing t5 and/or moving some of the power higher up the tree, yep.
This. Exactly. you buff Tier IV and Tier V.
It sucks that they made Shadow Dancer the whorse of a Tree where it gets passed around by everyone that wants a "Short Good Time" but not taken seriously for a deeper commitment.

Problem with SD is it is already a nearly mandatory splash for every melee/ranged build and very strong for casters so how do you buff it without making it overpowered?
Probably just tweaking the mantle and t5 a bit would fix most of it's issues.
So making it as a Stand Alone by itself Tree would make it over powered? Or a Choice to be viable for Stealth-Sneak Attack Melee/Range Players?
It should start by making the Epic Strikes continually build better upon each Tier. (They actually fixed it in Fury of the Wild by building the 1d6 per Tier to 3d6), they could do the same for Shadow Dancer Epic Strike, similar to Adrenaline in % damage.


Tier II
Epic Strike Melee: Deals +50% Damage. +3 Critical Multiplier. +3 Critical Threat Range. Dealing 1d6+6 Force damage per character level to all enemies. On hit, opponent must make a Fortitude save vs (DC 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate Bonuses) or be cursed with Shadow Loss. Cooldown: 8 seconds.
Epic Strike Range: Deals 30% Damage. +2 Critical Multiplier. +3 Critical Threat Range. Fire a single shot, hitting every enemy in an area around where the shot hits. Dealing 1d6+6 Force damage per character level to all enemies. On hit, opponent must make a Fortitude save vs (DC 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate Bonuses) or be cursed with Shadow Loss. Cooldown: 8 seconds.

Tier III
*Dark Imbuement:
Melee: +50% AOE Damage. On hit, opponents must make a Fortitude save vs (DC 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate Bonuses) or be stunned.
Range: +30% AOE Damage. On hit, opponents must make a Fortitude save vs (DC 20 + highest ability score + Assassinate Bonuses) or be stunned.
  • When you activate your Shadowdancer Epic Strike, you imbue your weapons and spells with Evil energies for 10 seconds. You deal 1d6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped damage on hit (scaling with the higher of Melee or Ranged Power), and on a Vorpal strike, your attacks blind enemies with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.

Tier IV
Improved Imbuement:
Melee: Your Epic Strike now increases your Melee range. +50% Damage.
Range: Your Epic Strike now increases your Point Blank Shot range by 15 Meters. +30% Damage.

Meld Into Darkness should not be part of the Epic Strike but should be a Tier IV tie in with From the Shadows.
From the Shadows: From-Stealth Active (i.e. is sneaking): From a stealthed position, dissolve into shadows, before appearing some distance in front of you. You gain 20% Dodge that is not affected by your Dodge Cap for 10 seconds.
This grants you the buffs from your Shadowdancer Epic Strike if you have them trained. Cooldown: 20 seconds

The problem with this Tree is that the Melee-Range version is completely lacking as a Stealth/Helpless inducing/aggro evading Tree.
The Tree should build on:

  • Sneak and Helpless damage to synergize with its Sneak Dice.(And a way to induce Helpless Damage.)
  • It should have an AOE blind-glue snare. (This could be were Helpless Damage comes from.)
  • Should build on Magical/Physical Trap Damage with Sneak Dice/MP/RP. Able to inscribe Scrolls to Traps bigger catalog.
  • Should build in Tier IV-V to get Teleport-Evasion attack-escape, like the Rogue mini boss in Slave Lords part III (Nerals). They could of built that up with From the Shadows to give you Shadow Phase for the 20 second cooldown. Where you would Jaunt but be able to appear on the other side of the room undetected by mobs and if you pass through them they are Bluffed>upgrade to Stunned (Bluff DC save)
  • Should put back Shadow Manipulation. (to have your minion draw aggro) Like what Beguile/Charm does. Never should of removed it.
  • An AOE instakill.
  • Offhand Assassinate. (This got removed from Two Weapon Fighting, makes no sense.)Or put back Executioner's Strike/Shot.
  • Cool down on Tactics-Assassinate -5%/-10%/-15% Cooldown.
  • Elusive Target bonus ability.
These are things that a Stealthy-Sneak attack Class Character needs to play its Role as to what its Class is about. It's not a Barbarian attack style or Unyielding Sentinel or a CHARGE into Battle style Divine Crusader. Its suppose to Terrify and Consume its Enemies, but it doesn't.

Even the description of Shadow Dancer spells it out of what its suppose to do. But never followed its Mission Statement for Melee/Range stealth Class players.
Mission Statement: Use the power of shadows and deadly illusion magic to terrify and consume enemies.

I was just making a point that since it's a Caster-illusion type Tree it can have SLA's in its cores to add to Dimension Door.
Core I SLA: Flaming Sphere. Feat: Tumble through Enemies.
Core II SLA: Dimension Door. Feat: Deflect Arrows.
Core III SLA: Distract. Feat: Evasion - Improved Evasion/No Fail on 1.
Core IV SLA: Trap the Soul. Feat Sap or if you have feat Sapped enemies are Stunned.


Grand Master of Flowers has Tumble through Enemies, Deflect Arrows, and a Stun ability. It's a Solid Tree with its 25% Elemental absorption and DR/Alignment Bypass to all weapons and it kept its Everything is Nothing and added 10% Elusive Target boosted save from 5%.
Fury of Wild has Huge AOE DOT damage, 2k+ Heals, stuns. Unconscious Range boost. Cause Helpless stuns.
Legendary Dreadnought has AOE damage inducing Helpless CC stuns. plus Action Hero/Boost improvement abilities.
Fatesinger has massive Sonic Damage Melee and Range damage(double damage) and CC Stuns and Heals.

Shadow Dancer should be using the Power of Shadows and Deadly illusion magic to terrify and consume enemies in Melee and Range class as its Caster version is doing.
 
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