Shield proficiency feat before and after fighter level

Jhml

Well-known member
So, let's say I have a rogue / wizard that takes shield proficiency as a feat to be able to grab the shield mastery feats. Then she takes a fighter level later. Is she able to switch the shield proficiency feat to someting else after taking the fighter level, or will the game see it as a no-no?
 

Jhml

Well-known member
I can't see anything shield related in Shiradi. Anyways, right now I'm leaning towards changing my build from rog 2 wiz 18 into rog 2 ftr 1 wiz 17, with the fighter level taken on level 2, thus no need for Fred shenanigans. Nets me two more feats, essentially, with the loss of one imbue die and a caster level.
 
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Arsont

Well-known member
I can't see anything shield related in Shiradi. Anyways, right now I'm leaning towards changing my build from rog 2 wiz 18 into rog 2 ftr 1 wiz 17, with the fighter level taken on level 2, thus no need for Fred shenanigans. Nets me two more feats, essentially, with the loss of one imbue die and a caster level.
I'm a little confused by what exactly you'd be doing.

If you're using a heart of wood to swap a toon from 18/2 to 17/2/1, then you won't have to worry about swapping the feat out as you'll have to re-select all your feats anyhow. Then it's just a matter of swapping around when you'd take certain feats to make sure you can still take everything when you want to.

If, instead of swapping a level you have a toon that still has a few open levels, and you're debating between taking the fighter level or another wiz level, then no, you wouldn't be able to swap out shield proficiency if you've already taken the Shield Mastery feats. When you take levels, the game "snapshots", or uses your current (Or, soon to be current, since it considers the level you're actively taking) feats/ability tomes/skill point investments into consideration when determining your available feats. You'd have to first swap all feats dependent on the prerequisite feat.

For example:

Let's say you have a toon, 12 wiz/2 rogue. You took Shield Proficiency at level 3, and Shield Mastery at level 6. If you were to take a level of fighter as your next level, it would autogrant you Shield Proficiency. You'd also be eligible to take Improved Shield Mastery on that level-up, as you'd be bumping your BaB up from 7 to 8. However, you would not then be able to retrain the lv 3 selected feat as it's a prerequisite for Shield Mastery, and you didn't have the prerequisite feat Shield Proficiency when you took the level 6 feat.

However, if you were to use a heart of wood, and swapped your first level (Or levels 2 or 3) for a fighter level, you'd be autogranted S. Proficiency then, and you'd still be able to take S. Mastery at 6 and Imp. S. Mastery at lv 15 (the earliest this toon could take it).


Hopefully that makes sense. I've run into this problem when doing ranger splits, as I'll frontload some other class, and take the Two Weapon Fighting feat with the intention to swap it out later before taking lv 2 ranger. If I accidently take Improved TWF before taking lv 2 ranger, I'd have to do a double feat swap to get those two feats back.
 

G.W.

Well-known member
So, let's say I have a rogue / wizard that takes shield proficiency as a feat to be able to grab the shield mastery feats. Then she takes a fighter level later. Is she able to switch the shield proficiency feat to someting else after taking the fighter level, or will the game see it as a no-no?
No, you won't be able to swap it out.
Visit Fred before taking the Fighter level.
I've seen this problem with Ranger bonus feats.

Edit: I reread your message and noticed the Shield Mastery feats, they would prevent you from swapping the basic Shield feat with Fred.
 
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dur

Paladin. Disruptor. Since the 1970s
Beware messing it all up at higher levels... I did too, involving a Shield, ironically but I was Epic ? At least Epics are locked out now.
 

Jhml

Well-known member
If you're using a heart of wood to swap a toon from 18/2 to 17/2/1, then you won't have to worry about swapping the feat out as you'll have to re-select all your feats anyhow...
Yes, that is what I plan to do. The first post no longer applies. Useful info in this thread anyways for future reference, thanks.
 
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florela41

Active member
So, let's say I have a rogue / wizard that takes shield proficiency as a feat to be able to grab the shield mastery feats. Then she takes a fighter level later. Is she able to switch the shield proficiency feat to someting else after taking the fighter level, or will the game see it as a no-no?
EK tree gives the proficency
 

unbongwah

Well-known member
So, let's say I have a rogue / wizard that takes shield proficiency as a feat to be able to grab the shield mastery feats. Then she takes a fighter level later. Is she able to switch the shield proficiency feat to someting else after taking the fighter level, or will the game see it as a no-no?
You cannot swap out a feat if it's a pre-req for another feat you later took. E.g., If you take Power Attack then Cleave, you can't swap out Power Attack without getting rid of Cleave first. In your case, if you take shield proficiency feat manually then Shield Mastery, you won't be able to "refund" that initial shield feat when splashing fighter because it's a pre-req for Shield Mastery.

If you're making a S&B Eldritch Knight, I would suggest you consider Dark Hunter 1 -> wizard 18 -> fighter 1, which gets you trap skills, medium armor & shield proficiencies at level 1 (letting you invest in Shield Mastery while leveling), and BAB 11 at level 20 so you can take Greater THF feat (presuming you go for hand-and-a-half weapons), freeing an epic slot for Greater Shield Mastery (req's BAB 13). Build example
 
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