Should cannith crafting on the wiki mention all the secret level 1 items you can make?

[Mindos]

I didn't see this on the wiki, maybe it's there, but shouldn't the wiki prominently mention that you can make a level 1 goggles true seeing of persuasion?
I was thinking of the Cormyr server and what to craft for the low levels and I thought about the above, which I have heard about on the forums. So I check the wiki to see an all compassing list and I don't see it?

What other things have the wrong minimum level in game that are not listed? And is it really wrong? Was there ever an official statement?

 

[Solarpower]

I didn't see this on the wiki

If you want to see it - add it to the wiki yourself !
ddowiki.com is not an official web-site, it's almost pointless to discuss it here.

 

[eartheyes]

true seeing/blindness immunity with a masters gift are what i crafted for my main years ago...there may be better combos but they served me well over the years.

 

[vryxnr]

If you want to see it - add it to the wiki yourself !
ddowiki.com is not an official web-site, it's almost pointless to discuss it here.

But... not everyone is comfortable with making edits, or navigating the formats that the wiki uses, AND, this is the "player-run DDO wiki discussion" sub forum, dedicated to discussing things related to the player run DDO wiki, which many of the regular wiki editors do check, so I don't think bringing up suggestions is pointless. I'd even go as far as to say that this is exactly the place to make suggestions, especially if you're not a person who is good with editing websites.

 

[The Blonde]

it's almost pointless to discuss it here.

That is straight up wrong.

 

[PurpleSerpent]

it's almost pointless to discuss it here.

The entire stated point of this subforum when it was created was to discuss things like this, so I have to disagree with you here.

To return to the original discussion:

What other things have the wrong minimum level in game that are not listed? And is it really wrong? Was there ever an official statement?

Without an official dev statement (which doesn't seem to exist), it's honestly tricky to tell whether or not this is intentional. It certainly complicates matters that many enchantments with high stated minimum levels have since been added to named items with much lower levels (True Seeing, for example, is now available on an ML 5 ring.)

Knowing which enchantments don't add the stated minimum level any more would be quite a useful addition to the information we have on Cannith Crafting. Sadly, this is a topic I myself can't really test, because it's not a crafting system I've put much time into and as such my crafting level is far too low. If somebody with more experience wanted to give it a look, it would be greatly appreciated (the table of non-scaling enchantments, which lists the recipes relevant to this discussion, might be useful.)

 

[The Blonde]

The entire stated point of this subforum when it was created was to discuss things like this, so I have to disagree with you here.

To return to the original discussion:


Without an official dev statement (which doesn't seem to exist), it's honestly tricky to tell whether or not this is intentional. It certainly complicates matters that many enchantments with high stated minimum levels have since been added to named items with much lower levels (True Seeing, for example, is now available on an ML 5 ring.)

Knowing which enchantments don't add the stated minimum level any more would be quite a useful addition to the information we have on Cannith Crafting. Sadly, this is a topic I myself can't really test, because it's not a crafting system I've put much time into and as such my crafting level is far too low. If somebody with more experience wanted to give it a look, it would be greatly appreciated (the table of non-scaling enchantments, which lists the recipes relevant to this discussion, might be useful.)

I had never been aware that the non-scaling Shards were supposed to raise the item's minimum level. I always thought it was WAI for all of them to be ML1. Where is the information on the last column of the table you linked coming from? Cause I can't seem to find it in game.

Regardless, I'll try to remember to test what you asked for next time Lamannia is up.

 

[PurpleSerpent]

I had never been aware that the non-scaling Shards were supposed to raise the item's minimum level. I always thought it was WAI for all of them to be ML1. Where is the information on the last column of the table you linked coming from? Cause I can't seem to find it in game.

The information in this table has remained largely untouched since the massive U32 overhaul of Cannith Crafting in 2016, but the dialogue in the Crafting Hall at the Bound and Unbound Items crafting devices for adding a non-scaling shard to an item does claim to increase the minimum level.

 

[Uska]

I've never liked crafting in any game but if I knew more maybe I would.

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

It's in the wiki under "Effects, listed by item and prefix/suffix/extra slot:" : https://ddowiki.com/page/Cannith_Crafting/table_1b

There are a few effects like parrying that only work on armor/shields despite what the table shows.

You have to go dig up comments on the old forums, but the devs were clearly aware of it and ok with it - but made the min crafting level quite high for those. In practice, you get true seeing at 5 already and the first place I am aware of it being highly useful is heroic party crashers which is a level 5 quest. Before that it's a convenience item, but in reality people with past lifes can search any door before that time. On Cormyr "detect secret doors" scrolls can find every secret door in the game in low level quests before true seeing is available.

This dates back to the original cannith crafting and these perks, including things like invulnerability + fearsome armor were draws to get people to engage in the system and potentially spend money.

One of the perks of the new system is that augments no longer contribute to minimum level so you can craft a level 1 item with an augment for master's gift.

None of these are big deals, they are small perks of participating in crafting. The fact that experienced players effectively ignored these until now shows what a minor boost these are compared to things like past lifes. In reality on hardcore you never had a chance to make these low level items because you didn't have enough essences to level up crafting to those levels until level cap - and then farming collectables was level-restricted. Cormyr is a bit easier (as it is in general) as you can just make an iconic to get to cap quick and get cannith crafting much quicker, then farm collectables without level restrictions.

What's next, "We are nerfing cannith crafting due to lag" and then like the other changes there is absolutely no noticeable impact.

 

[Stoner81]

Knowing which enchantments don't add the stated minimum level any more would be quite a useful addition to the information we have on Cannith Crafting. Sadly, this is a topic I myself can't really test, because it's not a crafting system I've put much time into and as such my crafting level is far too low. If somebody with more experience wanted to give it a look, it would be greatly appreciated (the table of non-scaling enchantments, which lists the recipes relevant to this discussion, might be useful.)

I can probably check this now that I am finally done with the event on Cormyr. What would be the best way to check? Make an item to be level 1 and put each shard on to it individually and see what happens? If so then I can probably take a look at doing and reporting the results with screenshots this coming Friday (6th Dec).

Stoner81.

 

[The Blonde]

Make an item to be level 1 and put each shard on to it individually and see what happens?

Correct.

 

[Speed]

Minimum level shards decide about item level and only higher level augments (not slots) can increase it (if you put augment level 4 into item minimum level 1, then it will start to require character level 4 until you change this augment into other level 1).
Augment slots on blanks can show higher minimum level, but when you put minimum level 1 shard, then item will be level 1 (you can have crafted minimum level 1 item with blue/yellow and green augments level 1).
You can not change minimum level of rune arms (just put shard effects that scale to it).
Any shard effect (including non scaling) can be added into minimum level 1 item except any insightful shard (including parrying) that can only be added to item that has minimum level 10 or higher (including other slots than extra).

 

[The Blonde]

Minimum level shards decide about item level and only higher level augments (not slots) can increase it (if you put augment level 4 into item minimum level 1, then it will start to require character level 4 until you change this augment into other level 1).
Augment slots on blanks can show higher minimum level, but when you put minimum level 1 shard, then item will be level 1 (you can have crafted minimum level 1 item with blue/yellow and green augments level 1).
You can not change minimum level of rune arms (just put shard effects that scale to it).
Any shard effect (including non scaling) can be added into minimum level 1 item except any insightful shard (including parrying) that can only be added to item that has minimum level 10 or higher (including other slots than extra).

Not the clearest thing I've read, but all these points are indeed correct.

 

[Stoner81]

Correct.

OK I will try and see about doing this in game with bound shards (I am not doing unbound because that will be stupid expensive) later this week and will post screenshots in here.

Stoner81.

 

[The Blonde]

but the dialogue in the Crafting Hall at the Bound and Unbound Items crafting devices for adding a non-scaling shard to an item does claim to increase the minimum level.

Can you pass me a screenshot of this? I literally can't find it..

 

[Speed]

Not the clearest thing I've read, but all these points are indeed correct.

Only insightful shards (including parrying) require minimum level 10 or higher.
Rest effects can be added to any level.

Armors and shields can have absolute minimum level 4/10/16/22, but still scale with higher minimum level shards.
Rune arms have fixed minimum level (effects scale to this).
Other items can be set to minimum level 1 (including ones with any augment slots).

Augments can increase required character level if are higher.

 

[Mindos]

these perks, including things like invulnerability + fear immunity armor were draws

I remember this combo! It was available very low level. But I also remember these being raised to a much higher level. Are they back to being usable at a low level?

This is the kind of thing I am talking about. Effects that have had their minimum levels changed around over the years. What actually is what? In game says things that are not true all the time, wiki reflects in game, and "some" players "know". My question is, should the wiki provide this hidden knowledge, even if it is "unofficial"?

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

I remember this combo! It was available very low level. But I also remember these being raised to a much higher level. Are they back to being usable at a low level?

This is the kind of thing I am talking about. Effects that have had their minimum levels changed around over the years. What actually is what? In game says things that are not true all the time, wiki reflects in game, and "some" players "know". My question is, should the wiki provide this hidden knowledge, even if it is "unofficial"?

The minimum level on gear hasn't change - same with true seeing, the crafting level went up significantly from the old cannith crafting to the new.

Insightful stats have a min level of 10 I think (maybe 11). You can add it lower, but it doesn't give you any benefit.

 

[Speed]

Level 11 refers to extra slot in case of rune arms.
Level 10 allows for extra slot on other items.
Level 10 allows for insightful shards (including parrying) in prefix/suffix/extra (depending on item type).
True seeing (detects secret doors up to level 12), invulnerability (reduces physical damage in combat log up to level 12) and persuasion (boosts charisma skills in character sheet, including umd) definitely work on level 1 crafted items.