Speculation on upcoming Balance Pass

[Sarlona Raiding]

A low life Sorcerer with 50 Reaper points. Are you trolling. None of my toons have anywhere close to 50 reaper points. in fact i dont think i have a toon with 20 reaper points. Casual gamesr will be lucky to have double digit reaper points at best.

Until they either lower the monsters DC's or greatly increase the DC's that are obtainable through feats and enhancements. Casters are always going to be relegated to players

1. best gear
2. Lost of past lives and reaper points.

On my melee and range toons, my tactical abilities easily bypass the monsters DC. On my casters 90% - 95% of my spells are saved against the monsters DC.

Just take a look at how easy it is to get DC's for Melee and range toons. Until they address this balance, casters are really only worth playing by a small portion of the playerbase.

No, I am not trolling - I am trying to help people that are struggling with casters in R4.

The 50 reaper points is for soloing R6 - as I mentioned. For someone with single digit reaper points R6 should not be their starting goal. There are other skulls available if you have fewer reaper points. The importance of 50 reaper points specifically for R6 is that the extra hp and other defenses help manage the incoming damage on that skull solo. The extra dc and spellpower helps a little as well, but the defenses are critical.

The math is that on R6 you are only getting 20% of your healing and taking 470% more damage than elite. On R4 you are getting 28% of your healing and taking 270% more damage. Alot of people think vengeance reapers are what makes R6 harder than R4, but in my opinion the damage and self-healing is usually what limits my max skull. Vengeance reapers are buggy and a nuisance, but it's also mostly just learning curve.

Without those reaper points you would start on a lower skull or possibly a different caster build. I haven't played a sorc with less than 21 reaper points in a long while so I don't know how a 0 reaper point sorc does.

Dark Bargainer is a pretty good first life caster build - I used it for the fey hardcore event to get my cloak and wings (fey wings not reaper).

 

[Sturmbb]

No, I am not trolling - I am trying to help people that are struggling with casters in R4.

The 50 reaper points is for soloing R6 - as I mentioned. For someone with single digit reaper points R6 should not be their starting goal. There are other skulls available if you have fewer reaper points. The importance of 50 reaper points specifically for R6 is that the extra hp and other defenses help manage the incoming damage on that skull solo. The extra dc and spellpower helps a little as well, but the defenses are critical.

The math is that on R6 you are only getting 20% of your healing and taking 470% more damage than elite. On R4 you are getting 28% of your healing and taking 270% more damage. Alot of people think vengeance reapers are what makes R6 harder than R4, but in my opinion the damage and self-healing is usually what limits my max skull. Vengeance reapers are buggy and a nuisance, but it's also mostly just learning curve.

Without those reaper points you would start on a lower skull or possibly a different caster build. I haven't played a sorc with less than 21 reaper points in a long while so I don't know how a 0 reaper point sorc does.

Dark Bargainer is a pretty good first life caster build - I used it for the fey hardcore event to get my cloak and wings (fey wings not reaper).

The biggest problem is every spell is being saved so at best you are doing half damage at worst (against Evasion monsters) you are doing no damage.

Until they address the DC problem, than playing caster solo is just not possible for the casual player. When im in parties i just end up staying at the back and using heals (from epic destinies) so i at least feel like i am contributing.

The investment you need to do on casters compared to melees and ranged is just so Ridiculous that i can understand why alot of casters TR back into melee / Range.

I've been really trying to farm good gear for my casters and even now i still havent got my DC's anywhere close to hitting in reaper (heck i dont even hit in elite). In Wildereness areas monsters are still saving and thats on normal.

 

[The Narc2]

The biggest problem is every spell is being saved so at best you are doing half damage at worst (against Evasion monsters) you are doing no damage.

Until they address the DC problem, than playing caster solo is just not possible for the casual player. When im in parties i just end up staying at the back and using heals (from epic destinies) so i at least feel like i am contributing.

The investment you need to do on casters compared to melees and ranged is just so Ridiculous that i can understand why alot of casters TR back into melee / Range.

I've been really trying to farm good gear for my casters and even now i still havent got my DC's anywhere close to hitting in reaper (heck i dont even hit in elite). In Wildereness areas monsters are still saving and thats on normal.

That is because SSG has gone back into all old content and raised the numbers of all mob stats because they are doing one of two things based on each individuals perspective. They are either making the content more challenging so that players with many multiple past lifes dont get bored silly during the past life hamster wheel runs, or they are trying to impact the speed at which past lives can be earned to push skipping the process with DDO store purchases.


Either way for casual players and first life players it has made the game extra sloggy and boring, will they spend to bypass, not likely so these are just likely lost population in the game.

 

[mikarddo]

That is because SSG has gone back into all old content and raised the numbers of all mob stats because they are doing one of two things based on each individuals perspective. They are either making the content more challenging so that players with many multiple past lifes dont get bored silly during the past life hamster wheel runs, or they are trying to impact the speed at which past lives can be earned to push skipping the process with DDO store purchases.


Either way for casual players and first life players it has made the game extra sloggy and boring, will they spend to bypass, not likely so these are just likely lost population in the game.

The game has never been easier power wise for new players. At almost every turn players have gotten stronger - not just rxp and past lives but gear and trees. Start a fighter and you get strong self heals and whirl wind at level 4 just to mention one thing.

But noone is asking til make normal to R6 harder. What needs to be harder is R10.

 

[DBZ]

The game has never been easier power wise for new players. At almost every turn players have gotten stronger - not just rxp and past lives but gear and trees. Start a fighter and you get strong self heals and whirl wind at level 4 just to mention one thing.

But noone is asking til make normal to R6 harder. What needs to be harder is R10.

New melee and pew pew pew players fixed that

 

[Oliphant]

Long as they doing the super in-the-know stuff, these new players got it made.

 

[EinarMal]

My guess is there is some very minor "nerf" to crossbows that somehow ends up being a slight buff. Casters will get some epic feat-based BS, which will be next to impossible for anyone to take for a minor increase. Melees will stay about the same.

Net casters will still be terrible for raids, as they have by far the lowest sustained DPS.

 

[Custodian]

My guess is there is some very minor "nerf" to crossbows that somehow ends up being a slight buff. Casters will get some epic feat-based BS, which will be next to impossible for anyone to take for a minor increase. Melees will stay about the same.

Net casters will still be terrible for raids, as they have by far the lowest sustained DPS.

the feat changes to casters look good, they get a universal DC increase (instead of having to take individual spell DC feats which should free up some feat slots) and there are new feats to strip immunities which I believe are aoe's I'm excited to see if they have done more to help close the gap. Things so far sound like a step in the right direction, but only time will tell.

 

[Contessor]

the feat changes to casters look good, they get a universal DC increase (instead of having to take individual spell DC feats which should free up some feat slots) and there are new feats to strip immunities which I believe are aoe's I'm excited to see if they have done more to help close the gap. Things so far sound like a step in the right direction, but only time will tell.

Only the epic ones are AoE and you must take the single target first.

 

[Elladan The Bald]

[SNIP]

Either way for casual players and first life players it has made the game extra sloggy and boring, will they spend to bypass, not likely so these are just likely lost population in the game.

Nope, not losing me as long as I can keep playing at my own pace (and one-lunger five-plus-year-old computer system).

I have no use for the endless complications associated with too many of the other cutting-edge visual presentations that keep getting emphasized on other games, either: goes with the territory of my visual impairment. THIS game allows me to play without absolutely dancing fingers on the keyboard, either -- although that DOES mean most of the spellcaster discussions leave me scratching my head (can't convince my fingers to navigate more than one or two hotbars while still maneuvering -- if I can't cast spells outside of active battles, they mostly don't get cast more than once during any given combat exchange. I can mostly keep up by concentrating on ranged DPS [artificers, archer-focused types, and throwers].)

What would help ME the most in a balance-pass almost certainly won't/can't happen: an option for something closer to turn-based play.

 

[Marshal_Lannes]

how in the world, this was "abusing the spirit of the system" is beyond me.

Power gamers slotting 6 of them, then being distraught, they "had" to slot 6 and didn't want to do it anymore, so they got them nerfed. Players were never intended to slot more than one or two. That is abusing the spirit of the system.

None of my toons have anywhere close to 50 reaper points. in fact i dont think i have a toon with 20 reaper points. Casual gamesr will be lucky to have double digit reaper points at best.

And this is why the game is impossible to balance.

 

[KylerrTheMajty]

-Caster nerf
-Melee nerf
-Range(only crossbow's) buff

 

[justin credible]

you guys do know that shuri throwers do more damage than crossbow builds, right?
so yeah i expect a nerf to crossbows, that somehow makes shuris even stronger

thers also plenty of complaints that melee needs a buff, "because my int based twf bard is terrible" or something like that
these will somehow make barbarian and dragonlord even stronger

 

[Vua]

you guys do know that shuri throwers do more damage than crossbow builds, right?
so yeah i expect a nerf to crossbows, that somehow makes shuris even stronger

thers also plenty of complaints that melee needs a buff, "because my int based twf bard is terrible" or something like that
these will somehow make barbarian and dragonlord even stronger

Just like ranged isn't only crossbows, melee isn't a single fighting style, and they aren't all equal.

 

[justin credible]

Power gamers slotting 6 of them, then being distraught, they "had" to slot 6 and didn't want to do it anymore, so they got them nerfed. Players were never intended to slot more than one or two. That is abusing the spirit of the system.

And this is why the game is impossible to balance.

these were purchase with commendations of heroism that only dropped in endgame raids at the time, these were end game raid augments.
the idea that players werent supposed to upgrade their characters with end game raid items, is entirely unfounded speculation on your part

it was on the same level as back in the day when you needed 20 shroud completions so you could get a cleanser to use 2 shroud items at once, a massive grind, not an abuse of the system. an intentional long term grind put there by the devs to not make it easy, but still possible

 

[justin credible]

Just like ranged isn't only crossbows, melee isn't a single fighting style, and they aren't all equal.

i agree,
unfortunately, the approach of the forums and the dev team seems to be
x is under performing so we should buff stuvwxyz
d is over performing so we should nerf abcdefghij

 

[voenixa121]

you guys do know that shuri throwers do more damage than crossbow builds, right?
so yeah i expect a nerf to crossbows, that somehow makes shuris even stronger

thers also plenty of complaints that melee needs a buff, "because my int based twf bard is terrible" or something like that
these will somehow make barbarian and dragonlord even stronger

Procs are strong. That's why everything with fast attack speed, multihits or high doubleshot/doublestrike is so heavily favored.

 

[Bjond]

the idea that players werent supposed to upgrade their characters with end game raid items, is entirely unfounded speculation

It's reasonable from a slot-count standpoint, though. It's hard to find enough slots to put more than 1~2 of those augments in a set.

OTH, his premise that 6x Focus+2 augments (each in it's own school) inspired the nerf makes no sense. The devs tried to remove those augments back in the original huge Epic Tree rework era when they first reworked augments and gave it the "new" UI. The player base squealed and they backed off.

Removing was mostly agreed by everyone to be a very good thing at this time because it frees slots at the same time other augments were buffed to more than cover the loss.

thers also plenty of complaints that melee needs a buff, "because my int based twf bard is terrible"

I think the melee desire is more for variety rather than power. FOTW has become the locked-in tree for melee the way Shiradi has for ranged.

I don't think any DPS are eye-rolling OP. We had that with Inexorable when it came out. It was giggle-worthy -- literally "stand back, I'm hitting epic! watch the boss die!"

The eye-rollers now are casters. Their DPS is soooo pathetic no matter how hard they try. :(

 

[Teh_Troll]

-Caster nerf
-Melee nerf
-Range(only crossbow's) buff

Very likely.

 

[Svirfneblin]

So anyone still doing 1 million hit point big hits or those days gone?