SSG: Please confirm if there will be Rare Loot Mechanic for "The Chill of Ravenloft"

erethizon1

Well-known member
If expansions keep coming with rare loot & rare augments that are required to complete sets. Or even "just" bloated loot tables, like 6 items and 4 augments on the same roll, I'm just going to ignore the loot and keep using IoD & Vecna forever and lower the difficulty accordingly.

No way I'd farm till my eyes bleed, let alone spend shards with those low odds.

Of course that invalidates a big part of the expansions, so I'll likely only get them later for points. Really sad because you used to be excited about new loot.
I'm basically in the same boat except not even planning to get new content with points. Vecna is the last thing I bought and have none of the latest expansions or 2 quest packs. There is more than enough content to get all 207 lives, and I run each quest every life anyway so owning more content only makes each life take longer.

I don't see myself needed any additional content until they add legendary reincarnation. In the meantime, I can work on my remaining 80 lives with what I have.
 

Rusty_helmet

Teh_troll’s Fluffer
I have yet to read a single comment from the playerbase that is FOR rare loot as it is currently implemented that makes any sense other than they are bitter against the "elitist" playerbase. There's a lot of hate in your heart.
 

Putti

Well-known member
It's not the idea of rare drops that people hate (not the main thing anyway) but the way that it's tied to quests I think. That coupled with the sheer NUMBER of rares make the whole thing a gigantic pain in the ass.

I agree.

I don’t have a problem with rare loot existing in general or in DDO. It can be really cool to have hard-to-get drops, like cosmetics or legendary items. But for that kind of system to feel good, the reward needs to match the effort. With cosmetics, the payoff is showing off to other players. With gear, it should be about getting something better than the regular options.

The issue in DDO is that rare loot doesn't feel special. There are a few unique cosmetic ones like the fish weapons, but mainly it seems that most weapons/shield and armor from MD onwards are now rare. However, there's a few random trinkets, gloves, bracers, cloaks, rings and helmets. Their stats are equivalent to the non-rare loot - the stats are just different from other options - so were they just chosen at random?

Even for cosmetics I'd much rather have them be like "Love at First Sight" where the method for obtaining them is unusual, still requires extra work, but is feasible.

The mythic helmets in Epic Necro 4 were the original rare loot and they actually made sense. They were an upgrade over the regular versions, but you could still get the normal helmets to complete your gear set. The mythic ones were just a nice bonus with better stats. That’s how rare loot should work.
The golden weapons in MD are reminiscent of this, but their stats aren't better, they are just different - which depending on what you're after might be better or worse.

Feytwisted items are somewhat in-between. Some of them at least offer unique or rare effects, so the rarity feels somewhat justified - especially considering they're much easier to get as they can drop from any quest, and every party member gets a piece. The chests also can't be ransacked. (Also, seeing the chest is exciting because then you know beforehand that you got something rare).

Another big problem with DDO’s rare loot is that much of it shares a chest. I was trying to get Moonlight Slinger from The Darkness and the Light which has 2 other pieces of rare loot in the chest.
Since it's rare loot it means that I first have to hit the rare drop table and then I only have a 33% chance that it's the piece I want. As it only drops from that one quest it means it's easy to ransack, so I have to farm it on alts that I don't want to play.
I ransacked the chest on 5-6 characters for several weeks and didn't see any rare drop. At that point the item might as well not exist to me.

DDO has a lot of gear Tetris. Sometimes a single item is what makes your entire setup work. If that one piece is locked behind ridiculous rarity, it just makes the whole process frustrating and, at least for me, not worth the trouble.
 

Varr

Well-known member
This isn't a 3 to 1 issue as your post implies.
The implication is not intended. But it doesn't really matter if the real number is 8-1 or 27-1. What matters is it is 27-1+Devs.

The 1+Devs side wins.

But keep fighting the fight! I've said about all I care to say about this. Clocking out of this thread and moving on. Just wanted to stand up for what looks to be the minority in one of the avalanche of anti rare loot threads. But I'm heading back off the Forums for a bit and playing the sweet DDO game.
 
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erethizon1

Well-known member
The implication is not intended. But it doesn't really matter if the real number is 8-1 or 27-1. What matters is it is 27-1+Devs.

The 1+Devs side wins.
This isn't a moral issue. The Devs are not on one side because it is "right" or "just." They are on the side of maximizing profit. The purpose of these threads is both to make the developers aware of why some people are not spending money and also to convince others to join the cause. Even if rare loot doesn't bother someone that much, but they can acknowledge that there is no advantage to them by having loot be rare, they can join the cause of boycotting the content because they too will benefit from SSG concluding that rare loot is unprofitable.

This all goes back to the addition of chest rerolls to the game. It's not that I have never been tempted to reroll a chest. It's that I don't reward people for misbehavior. I am hyper-cognizant of manipulative behavior in the real world. It is the cornerstone of my profession and I recognize it everywhere. We are faced with choices every day of how we want to respond to people's behavior. The decision to make loot rare is done to manipulate people into spending more money to get the loot (through chest rerolls, potions, etc.). If I give in and reroll a chest I am telling the developers that you can manipulate me into giving you money by not giving me what I want.

I don't reward people for doing the opposite of what I want. It saddens me that so many other players are easily manipulated into doing just that, but I am somewhat heartened to see some of the player base seeing the light. The question is whether the ones that wised up will make enough of a difference to offset the people that will refinance their house to buy ransack reset potions and chest rerolls for ultra rare loot. We need a lot of people on our side because it only takes a few people willing to spending $100k a year to make the current direction profitable. Every time someone rerolls a chest or buys the next expansion they are undermining the cause.
 

Solarpower

Well-known member
They won't accept payment from my "largest" part. I had to resort to using cash.
obi-wan-uncivilized.gif
 
Thanks for your insightful words! I'm pretty sure I'm developing a platonic crush on you. I'll plan to think of a fun question to ask you at PAX. :)

My dominant personality is a software/big data guy with a background in sociology who is reluctantly using LLMs in a focused field. for me AI is the most accurate parrot (good at repeating & even correlating, but not so good at creative construction)...if you wrote more on the topic I'd 100% read it.
Hah, sounds good! And yeah, I saw you were in software, so I had a feeling I was partially preaching to the choir. I've been conducting different scenarios of roleplay and games with a few models on my spare time, and it's fascinating to see where they'll bork things up and why. Maybe one of these days I'll write something up on it... when time allows and all that. :)
Hehheh. Some kindred spirit here.
Degree in Psychology, works for a game company.
Me, degrees in Programming and other stuff, becomes a wholesale route merchandiser for a dairy company. :D
Oh yeah, that is exactly how that went, hahaha.
Degree in Psychology actually makes perfect sense for an MMO/video game company.

Programming even I can teach you in a weekend, that Psychology side I have no idea what’s what.
Totally thought that back when I was working at Massively before it was Massively OP. When they hired me, my first column was supposed to be about the crossover between the psychology of play and MMOs, back in 2007. Nobody read it, so it became an MMO opinion column because that's what got read instead. And then when I left, it became The Soapbox recurring opinion column because everyone wanted to share a hot take, hahaha.
 

Cmecu

Well-known member
There are a LOT more things to be sad about with DDO than this.
This is true, but the one I listed is more easily addressable, not hard coding, just changing default numbers of space, and making its BTA that were BTC. Cant really screw up the game doing those things.
 

5 Other People

all the voices in my head are my own
while napping, I considered that the voices of Celestrata and Elminster came from the same human. Then I wake to see them playing forum volleyball and now I'm sure it's possible.

I've long considered Elminster a possible insider with the forgiving nature and desire to collect polling data. Even the recent forum volley between Elminster & Cordo to throw us off the track by asking us to think Elminster has poor insights...perfectly staged to let us know there'd be no Cordo at 4 feed...bee-rillant!

It's clear I rolled a 1 trying to save here.
 

Rusty_helmet

Teh_troll’s Fluffer
while napping, I considered that the voices of Celestrata and Elminster came from the same human. Then I wake to see them playing forum volleyball and now I'm sure it's possible.

I've long considered Elminster a possible insider with the forgiving nature and desire to collect polling data. Even the recent forum volley between Elminster & Cordo to throw us off the track by asking us to think Elminster has poor insights...perfectly staged to let us know there'd be no Cordo at 4 feed...bee-rillant!

It's clear I rolled a 1 trying to save here.
My dice are only 1s.
 

dozensnakes

Well-known member
Just wanted to drop by here to say you'll be hearing more from folks around the rare drops in the coming days. We don't want the response to be limited to forums only and a few folks want to offer perspectives and thoughts to y'all.
I respect the intention, and value seeing developer responses at all, but to me, a forum response today is in my opinion more valuable then a front page announcement in a week.
 

ACJ97F

Well-known member
With SSG doubling-down on rare-loot, selling ransack reset items, it's looking like my wallet will be safe for the next several expansions.

If they put 1% of the effort they use to design creep and whale-hunting, into repairs, maybe those U37 filigree might work after 8+ years. 🙄
 

5 Other People

all the voices in my head are my own
With SSG doubling-down on rare-loot, selling ransack reset items, it's looking like my wallet will be safe for the next several expansions.
i get it, I do....i'm holding out hope that we'll see a revision to their plan shortly.

My hope rests on Celestrata's posts:
I wouldn't try to use this potion to infer something about the other areas of the game because it's not how we do the development process. My requests for these types of items are a separate track from how the game is balanced. In this specific case, this idea was very separate from drop rate changes. It was ideated at a different time, it had been on the product list for a while, and it felt like something interesting to introduce with the expansion, where we normally put in something like this.

Just wanted to drop by here to say you'll be hearing more from folks around the rare drops in the coming days. We don't want the response to be limited to forums only and a few folks want to offer perspectives and thoughts to y'all.


I get that I really want this to be true and I don't want to blindly buy anymore, but I will be listening. I"m not sure what other formats she's talking about delivering it to us on (Discord) and whose thoughts are we talking about and mostly can we talk math.
 
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