ssg will nerf Legen Strength of Arms in 3 month right when most players start to enjoy it and ppl will be mad

[Concavenator]

riddle me this - when noob melee players pick me i will make them little bit harder to kill, when average melee players pick me they will never need a healer in mid r again, when top melee players with me they will solo r10 with ease. which feat im i?

L Strength of Arms is THE most poorly balanced feat in ddo history.

letting this thing out of pts is just irresponsible. ppl will have to put in their time and money to tr/tune their builds around it and right when it get popular ssg will panic and run out with their nerf guns and shoot the feat dead.



ps: now i thought about it more maybe this feat is ssg's way to put melee on par or a bit a head of range which is not a bad thing IF they can give meaningful buff to casters later too. but if they balance the classes this way most quest on r10 would end up feeling like r6 at best.

 

[erethizon1]

How much melee power do people have? It seems like a pretty small amount of health once every 8 seconds.

 

[Concavenator]

How much melee power do people have? It seems like a pretty small amount of health once every 8 seconds.

i should have said legendary strength of arms, x2 mp, 6 sec cooldown, 3 stacks

i think an average player would have around 300 but i seen ppl with 500 many expansions ago.

 

[Dythan]

/em shuffles down the wall to the little better then half of average part of the line.

 

[Bjond]

i think an average player would have around 300 but i seen ppl with 500 many expansions ago.

My tank has 290 MP. My melee DPS has 375 MP, but could have 400~415 MP if I gave up debuffs & quaffed pots. 500 is impressive even if boosted.

I have no idea what an average player might have. My tank is weird and NOT common as it's a DRoll / Hate tank. My DPS is likely low as it's a debuffer, but it is pure raid focused.

 

[Concavenator]

My tank has 290 MP. My melee DPS has 375 MP, but could have 400~415 MP if I gave up debuffs & quaffed pots. 500 is impressive even if boosted.

I have no idea what an average player might have. My tank is weird and NOT common as it's a DRoll / Hate tank. My DPS is likely low as it's a debuffer, but it is pure raid focused.

ya i remember not liking the 500 mp build when i saw it, it was pretty annoying to play but maybe its worth it now

 

[Shear-buckler]

What do you mean? 2000-3000 temporary HP every 6 second is fine. Just fine.
It certainly does not invalidate just about all class based healing, or the reaper self healing penalty.

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

Despite everyone talking about how strong legendary trick shot was I always knew this would be the strongest of the new feats.

SSG gave melee a feat that helped survivability rather than DPS which makes sense to me.

I enjoy this feat. If it's nerfed I am sure I'll get over it.

 

[paddymaxson]

Does Legendary Strength of Arms get the full 3 stacks every 6 seconds, or does it mean you get 1 stack, wait 6 seconds, get a second stack, wait 6 seconds and then third?

Because I've gotta say ~800 temp HP every 6 seconds ain't a lot in high reaper legendaries, for a not particularly well geared toon it'll be more like 400-500 temp HP. Neither of those figures is even much in R1 Demogorgon if you don't otherwise have good defences.

What it basically becomes is a semirandom damage reduction bonus at that point, it might be 100% reduction on a single hit, it might be 50% reduction on a big hit, if you have all 3 stacks it may totally nulify a properly big hit, but it's not going to nullify a meaningful amount of incoming damage without some other way of doing so. It will probabbly make soloing higher reapers easier for builds that deal with a lot of attrition though.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Does Legendary Strength of Arms get the full 3 stacks every 6 seconds, or does it mean you get 1 stack, wait 6 seconds, get a second stack, wait 6 seconds and then third?

Because I've gotta say ~800 temp HP every 6 seconds ain't a lot in high reaper legendaries, for a not particularly well geared toon it'll be more like 400-500 temp HP. Neither of those figures is even much in R1 Demogorgon if you don't otherwise have good defences.

What it basically becomes is a semirandom damage reduction bonus at that point, it might be 100% reduction on a single hit, it might be 50% reduction on a big hit, if you have all 3 stacks it may totally nulify a properly big hit, but it's not going to nullify a meaningful amount of incoming damage without some other way of doing so. It will probabbly make soloing higher reapers easier for builds that deal with a lot of attrition though.

You get the full stack if you have any remaining temp HP left. If you lose all temp HP before the 6 seconds are up you only get 1 stack. This is what breaks the ability. If you take less than MPx6 damage every 6 seconds the ability is ridiculously strong, and if you take more than MPx6 damage every 6 seconds the ability is fine.

 

[paddymaxson]

You get the full stack if you have any remaining temp HP left. If you lose all temp HP before the 6 seconds are up you only get 1 stack. This is what breaks the ability. If you take less than MPx6 damage every 6 seconds the ability is ridiculously strong, and if you take more than MPx6 damage every 6 seconds the ability is fine.

Yeah exactly what I thought, but the thing about that is it's only extremely strong if you have two things:
1. A lot of MP
2. Other defensive strengths

Though I suppose you could also be extremely judicious and slow in pulling groups of mobs to lower incoming damage - what it means to me I suppose is that it simply lowers the severity of the pasting you take, it's not going to make a squishy melee solo r6+ even if they have lots of MP. My last build struggled with R1 Demogorgon, I think this would have brought it up to R3.

I think it's only extremely good if your build and gear are also extremely good, otherwise it's just a nice thing that makes melees a bit more survivable, but nobody's jumping from managing R1 to soloing R10 with this.

Edit: I do sort of wish there was some way it was more effective for less powerful builds though. There's builds that don't really need it that will find it hilariously strong and weaker builds that will find it pretty meh.

 

[Wrensel]

It is kinda the Epic/Legendary equivalent of the Blightcaster Death Eater, except Strength of Arms doesn't last indefinitely. I've yet to see Death Eater adjusted, so I have my doubts Strength of Arms (which requires up to 2 feats) will be adjusted.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Yeah exactly what I thought, but the thing about that is it's only extremely strong if you have two things:
1. A lot of MP
2. Other defensive strengths

Though I suppose you could also be extremely judicious and slow in pulling groups of mobs to lower incoming damage - what it means to me I suppose is that it simply lowers the severity of the pasting you take, it's not going to make a squishy melee solo r6+ even if they have lots of MP. My last build struggled with R1 Demogorgon, I think this would have brought it up to R3.

I think it's only extremely good if your build and gear are also extremely good, otherwise it's just a nice thing that makes melees a bit more survivable, but nobody's jumping from managing R1 to soloing R10 with this.

My biggest issue is how it invalidates all class based self healing/sustain. It is boring to have that problem entierly solved by grabbing two feats (and a T4 ability in the destiny tree that is mandatory for all melees regardless).

 

[Vua]

Yeah exactly what I thought, but the thing about that is it's only extremely strong if you have two things:
1. A lot of MP
2. Other defensive strengths

Though I suppose you could also be extremely judicious and slow in pulling groups of mobs to lower incoming damage - what it means to me I suppose is that it simply lowers the severity of the pasting you take, it's not going to make a squishy melee solo r6+ even if they have lots of MP. My last build struggled with R1 Demogorgon, I think this would have brought it up to R3.

I think it's only extremely good if your build and gear are also extremely good, otherwise it's just a nice thing that makes melees a bit more survivable, but nobody's jumping from managing R1 to soloing R10 with this.

Edit: I do sort of wish there was some way it was more effective for less powerful builds though. There's builds that don't really need it that will find it hilariously strong and weaker builds that will find it pretty meh.

So you have to build up the 3 stacks first, but as long as you don't lose all the temp HP, the next tick will bring it back to the full 3 ticks. It's mostly for bosses because trash doesn't stick around long enough.

 

[Concavenator]

It is kinda the Epic/Legendary equivalent of the Blightcaster Death Eater, except Strength of Arms doesn't last indefinitely. I've yet to see Death Eater adjusted, so I have my doubts Strength of Arms (which requires up to 2 feats) will be adjusted.

Death Eater is not even in the ball park of this thing not even close. u have to kill things to get Death Eater to trigger and its only on a not so great sub class

 

[Wrensel]

Death Eater is not even in the ball park of this thing not even close. u have to kill things to get Death Eater to trigger and its only on a not so great sub class

Nah, Death Eater is totally in the ball park, except that it is scaled for Heroics and Epics (because its growth ends at level 20). If you need a Epic or Legendary comparison (where it does show some comparative power creep) then Toughness is probably where you'd look. There is also Beast's Mantle for Rage users which has been around a while and has a temporary HP max that is comparable to a full Legendary Strength of Arms (but with filigree and rage requirements instead of 2 feats required).

	Toughness	Strength of Arms	Death Eater	Beast's Mantle
Heroic	Up to 38 hp	N/A	~20 to ~300 temp hp	N/A
Epic	50 hp	~60 to ~300 temp hp	~50 to ~300 temp hp	100 - 1000 temp hp
Legendary	100 hp	~300 to ~1500 temp hp	~60 to ~500 temp hp	1100 - 1600 temp hp

 

[Concavenator]

Nah, Death Eater is totally in the ball park, except that it is scaled for Heroics and Epics (because its growth ends at level 20). If you need a Epic or Legendary comparison (where it does show some comparative power creep) then Toughness is probably where you'd look.

	Toughness	Strength of Arms	Death Eater
Heroic	Up to 38 hp	N/A	~20 to ~300 temp hp
Epic	50 hp	~60 to ~300 temp hp	~50 to ~300 temp hp
Legendary	100 hp	~300 to ~1500 temp hp	~60 to ~500 temp hp

im not just talking about the # it self im talking about how it triggers and who can get it. death eater only trigger on kill which make it next to useless vs boss which is where u need it the most. Blightcaster back line caster with subpar dps even for a caster so nobody care how much temp hp it has but LSOA can go on top of all/best melee builds u can think of the impact on the game as a whole is night and day.

 

[woq]

My biggest issue is how it invalidates all class based self healing/sustain. It is boring to have that problem entierly solved by grabbing two feats (and a T4 ability in the destiny tree that is mandatory for all melees regardless).

I don't think it's that extreme. It does devalue them relatively, but sustain in form of temp hp stacking actually jives very well with these feats. Combining other sources of temp hp with this feat is very powerful. Self-healing and sustain are also way more powerful than this feat on low difficulties where reaper pen isn't as large.

But yes, it is a significant power bump for melees due to the survivability gained, but it is also two feat tax. The first one is really bad, so they're not far off on the balance when it comes to this even if it does end up needing to be nerfed. I hope they don't nerf it, for me personally it was a significant fun increase and allows non-barbs/rogs more survivability to play with too.

... but I wouldn't mind seeing a new reaper difficulty scaler that reduces effectiveness of temp hp by 2% per reaper difficulty, capping at 20% on r10 with some of the old more out of date sources of temp hp that fell off the scaling wagon 10 levels ago adjusted to modern values at the same time.

 

[Wrensel]

im not just talking about the # it self im talking about how it triggers and who can get it. death eater only trigger on kill which make it next to useless vs boss which is where u need it the most. Blightcaster back line caster with subpar dps even for a caster so nobody care how much temp hp it has but LSOA can go on top of all/best melee builds u can think of the impact on the game as a whole is night and day.

Seems like you missed the part where my comparison between Toughness and Strength of Arms helps prove your point...

 

[woq]

riddle me this - when noob melee players pick me i will make them little bit harder to kill, when average melee players pick me they will never need a healer again in mid r, when top melee players with me they will solo r10 with ease. which feat im i?

L Strength of Arms is THE most poorly balanced feat in ddo history.

letting this thing out of pts is just irresponsible. ppl will have to put in their time and money to tr/tune their builds around it and right when it get popular ssg will panic and run out with their nerf guns and shoot the feat dead.



ps: now i thought about it more maybe this feat is ssg's way to put melee on par or a bit a head of range which is not a bad thing IF they can give meaningful buff to casters later too. but if they balance the classes this way most quest on r10 would end up feeling like r6 at best.

R10 already feels like R4-R6 of 2024. Save your judgement for after the reaper/caster balance pass. Melee, in my experience, are still even with this feat less useful in r10 questing of new content than ranged and tricksters without it - because we already had strong melees who didn't die in R10s be less useful than powerful other classes. This feat isn't the ruination you're framing it as, imo.

We just need harder difficulties.