rabidfox
The People's Champion
If that's the case, then it could be a change like it only doing 1 stack for 3x the value that has a 18s ICD.
ssg will nerf Legen Strength of Arms in 3 month right when most players start to enjoy it and ppl will be mad
- Thread starter Concavenator
- Start date
Concavenator
Well-known member
because im such a range lover
And this is the only issue I have with the feats and it's the one thing that should get fixed. Imo, there is no reason you should get 3 full stacks back every 6 seconds just because you got there once. You should have to build them back up again.
Shear-buckler
Master of reactions
When martial dps does not work very well on ALL mobs we can talk again. Thats not specializing - unlike caster IK and CC spells that only work on a subset of mobs and usually only the least important ones.
If casters did 80% of martial dps while being able to also cc (some martial builds do both cc and dps) and ik (again, some martial builds do both dps and ik) it would not in any way be wrong or overpowering.
In some cases the bigger dps of martial builds (often with some cc or ik) would still outperform the lesser dps with ik and cc from casters and in other cases it would be the other way around.
IK and CC with very low dps simply does not have a role in DDO atm except for specific push raids.
That isn't what we were arguing about.
GrizzlyOso
Well-known member
Biff on thrane is constantly pulling pugs through r8 and r10 and plays exactly like you’re describing. Groups are very smooth.
Of course they are just playing the game and having fun and not gnashing their teeth on circular forum arguments.
Most melee i see in r10 demo just gets smashed. There’s a very few that don’t.
As always the best groups are unselfish players that play to the strength of their builds, unlike what you are arguing for.
I am curious - why do the melee you mention get trashed? Dont you bring a tank for R10 Demo?
I am unsure what build the Biff you are referring to is playing or what exactly you mean. But if you mean he is a caster that does 80% the dps of well build martial build then I have to disbelieve that claim.
As I have posted several times. Strong melee compete well with strong ranged (in quests, not in push raids). Less strong melee do not compete well against less strong ranged though. No argument there and that is a problem. But I dont see any issues for strong melee builds based on personal experience - and I am not even good at playing melee nor max level yet or with new gear on my melee dps (that used to be my caster and thus even lack some melee bonus past lives).
As for your last line - I certainly play with such people as well and try to be one myself - but thank you for taking a swing at me
Thats not what we are debating though afaik - we are debating if different playstyles have the ability to bring similar value to groups or not. In R10 groups these days I see maybe 66% ranged, 33% melee and 1% casters - when we ignore tank and healer roles. Obviously, thats just my personal experience - but are you seeing many offensive casters in R10 groups?
Depends. Do you consider an arcane trickster an offensive caster in R10 groups? I can't solo R10 with mine yet, but I duo with another guy on his trickster or monk.I am curious - why do the melee you mention get trashed? Dont you bring a tank for R10 Demo?
I am unsure what build the Biff you are referring to is playing or what exactly you mean. But if you mean he is a caster that does 80% the dps of well build martial build then I have to disbelieve that claim.
As I have posted several times. Strong melee compete well with strong ranged (in quests, not in push raids). Less strong melee do not compete well against less strong ranged though. No argument there and that is a problem. But I dont see any issues for strong melee builds based on personal experience - and I am not even good at playing melee nor max level yet or with new gear on my melee dps (that used to be my caster and thus even lack some melee bonus past lives).
As for your last line - I certainly play with such people as well and try to be one myself - but thank you for taking a swing at me
Thats not what we are debating though afaik - we are debating if different playstyles have the ability to bring similar value to groups or not. In R10 groups these days I see maybe 66% ranged, 33% melee and 1% casters - when we ignore tank and healer roles. Obviously, thats just my personal experience - but are you seeing many offensive casters in R10 groups?
Now his monk really has benefited from SOA. He could solo some R10s, which isn't bad for a monk with 3 heroic past lives, but he had to be careful. Now he can face tank most R10s.
Last edited:
Bjond
Well-known member
Tricksters lack pathos.
You're obviously salty that these feats don't apply to your play style, so don't pretend that you want them nerfed now to spare melee the potential annoyance of losing them later.
Also, how is anyone building around these feats? Adding more melee power and dodge cap? "Oh, no! The devs nerfed Strength of Arms! I would've never went through the effort of increasing my mp and dodge if I had known earlier!" We'll probably see a few more high dodge monks running around; for every other melee, building around these feats just means taking them instead of whatever filler they previously used at legendary levels.
Concavenator
Well-known member
You're obviously salty that the feat of reading comprehension doesnt apply to your brain, so don't pretend that you know my play style now (i play all 3 but its melee now btw) and project you dishonest mentality on to me.
Last edited:
"I hate these feats unless casters get something just as good." - You
How's my reading comprehension here?
Concavenator
Well-known member
its getting better! but now your attention span just dipped out maybe read the whole thing next time to get the full meaning?
You know what - I'll stop making arguments that you're going to just ignore anyway and instead you can take a video of yourself steamrolling a variety of legendary r10s solo in "LEGENDARY STRENGTH OF ARMS GOD MODE"™. A raid completion also seems necessary to showcase the feat's indomitable performance so throw in a Threats run; I'll be fine with legendary hard as I know that 's been done by ranged players and, according to you, melee is now "on par or a bit a head of range" with this feat. As I've read that you're playing melee now (see, more reading comprehension), this shouldn't be a problem. Definitively show me this feat is the overpowered game changer you and some others claim it to be and I'll humbly admit I was wrong.
Shear-buckler
Master of reactions
The idea that somehing has to be overpowered in the highest difficulty setting to be considered overpowered has already been debunked. Your logic concludes that a feat with "You are immortal and deal infinite damage on R9 and below" is perfectly fine and cannot be imbalanced.
Concavenator
Well-known member
me "a nerf might be coming"
you "PROOF IT TO ME!!!! RECODDE YOSELF R10 R4@2 RAID69! U MOST DO OR I WOULDT BELEVEI!!!!!"
sadly we must add inflated self importance to the list. please talk to ur health care provider
u can watch this while u on the phone tho
woq
Well-known member
This is an interesting example because he is doing old content and he has done harder content than these quests (imo) without these feats at a lower max level with worse gear in his Ravenloft and Cogs saga completions. In most scenarios in that video, you can tell he didn't need the feats but it did offer comfort and allow him to play more aggressively, and the rage temp HP was more important to keeping him healthy enough to keep fighting without disengaging in order to finish groups than the feats were.
The effective tradeoff in these being that he has to kite less and gets to hit more. Most packs his barb rage temp hp buffer isn't depleted before the packs are dead and the strength of arms feats are effectively doing nothing. Even if he took a bit damage, he could primal scream after the pack to top up and have been just as well off.
In the end fight of the last quest it did help him as the feats should, but neither in the first quest end fight or last quest end fight did he need these feats to complete - blood tribute and rage swap would've been enough.
If anything, that was a "why were barbs never nerfed?" -example, rather than why Strength of Arms should be nerfed now.
Edit: or perhaps why other melees didn't have similar tools when barbs were allowed such for so long.