ssg will nerf Legen Strength of Arms in 3 month right when most players start to enjoy it and ppl will be mad

[rabidfox]

R10 already feels like R4-R6 of 2024. Save your judgement for after the reaper/caster balance pass. Melee, in my experience, are still even with this feat less useful in r10 questing of new content than ranged and tricksters without it - because we already had strong melees who didn't die in R10s be less useful than powerful other classes. This feat isn't the ruination you're framing it as, imo.

If it trivializes non-high skull content, that's is why it would get nerf'd. Old EA's healing mantle's self-heals was likely removed because it made normal/hard raids & low difficulty quests extra easy & mindless for more casual players. Strength of arms may be decently balanced for high skulls, but it'll get hit by the balance bat if it makes lower difficulties too easy for everyday players.

 

[Shear-buckler]

I don't think it's that extreme. It does devalue them relatively, but sustain in form of temp hp stacking actually jives very well with these feats. Combining other sources of temp hp with this feat is very powerful. Self-healing and sustain are also way more powerful than this feat on low difficulties where reaper pen isn't as large.

But yes, it is a significant power bump for melees due to the survivability gained, but it is also two feat tax. The first one is really bad, so they're not far off on the balance when it comes to this even if it does end up needing to be nerfed. I hope they don't nerf it, for me personally it was a significant fun increase and allows non-barbs/rogs more survivability to play with too.

... but I wouldn't mind seeing a new reaper difficulty scaler that reduces effectiveness of temp hp by 2% per reaper difficulty, capping at 20% on r10 with some of the old more out of date sources of temp hp that fell off the scaling wagon 10 levels ago adjusted to modern values at the same time.

No it really is that extreme. What R6-7 self healing can match this for sustain? Anything you can name will require far more investment than 2 feats.

Yeah I agree that it is fun to self sustain in those difficulties, which is why I have argued against the self healing penalty since the day it was announced. It just achieves it in the lamest possible way.

 

[mikarddo]

R10 already feels like R4-R6 of 2024. Save your judgement for after the reaper/caster balance pass. Melee, in my experience, are still even with this feat less useful in r10 questing of new content than ranged and tricksters without it - because we already had strong melees who didn't die in R10s be less useful than powerful other classes. This feat isn't the ruination you're framing it as, imo.

We just need harder difficulties.

In my experience with R10 the stronger melee builds are not that far behind the better ranged builds if at all. Less developed melee builds are worse off than similarly developed ranged builds though which SaA may help some with.

Meanwhile casters are far, far behind both melee and ranged in R10.

Most of all though the game is simply too easy and imho too fast paced. Mobs need to survive longer so debuffs, cc and tactics matter where now its purely zerg dps that wins

Casters may need a small upgrade but for the game to make sense the best martial builds both melee and ranged need ho become much less OP. Either through getting the same multiplier that magic has, by nerfs or by making the contend harder. The latter though requires a large buff to caster dps too.

Mind, not all melee or ranged builds are OP. There is plenty of weak sauce in the martial pool too but addressing the best and most OP should be the priority now.

 

[GrizzlyOso]

I just don’t like the current design space where temp hp sources make a ton of sense but then basically all abilities that are “self heal” or just worthless.

Are we just going down the immunities road and playing wackamole to get around the self healing penalty?

 

[woq]

If it trivializes non-high skull content, that's is why it would get nerf'd. Old EA's healing mantle's self-heals was likely removed because it made normal/hard raids & low difficulty quests extra easy & mindless for more casual players. Strength of arms may be decently balanced for high skulls, but it'll get hit by the balance bat if it makes lower difficulties too easy for everyday players.

It might do that honestly - though more casual players have a harder time keeping the stacks up and have less minmaxed MP to make the most of it. It does take some mechanical skill and effort to keep it up when things move around and you have invulnerability phases and the stacks run out between packs etc etc.

I still saw even powerful barbs that I've seen carry r10 questing die with the feat in raids like LH Threats just due to other people sabotaging them with explosions and it being unable to stack due to consistent damage taken, so it doesn't completely trivialize raids like this with constant damage taken - there is no way to scale the temp hp gained after all and if you take a constant amount of damage like 1k every 3 seconds that is very easy to heal, it still makes this feat relatively irrelevant for raid circumstances (this is from healer pov).

In my experience with R10 the stronger melee builds are not that far behind the better ranged builds if at all. Less developed melee builds are worse off than similarly developed ranged builds though which SaA may help some with.

Meanwhile casters are far, far behind both melee and ranged in R10.

Most of all though the game is simply too easy and imho too fast paced. Mobs need to survive longer so debuffs, cc and tactics matter where now its purely zerg dps that wins

Casters may need a small upgrade but for the game to make sense the best martial builds both melee and ranged need ho become much less OP. Either through getting the same multiplier that magic has, by nerfs or by making the contend harder. The latter though requires a large buff to caster dps too.

Mind, not all melee or ranged builds are OP. There is plenty of weak sauce in the martial pool too but addressing the best and most OP should be the priority now.

Yeah, I perform well on my melee in questing and the point wasn't to make it a playstyle diff discussion, but rather that existing difficulties were already trivial to some groups in the game before the existence of this feat and it was not uncommon to have 1-3 strong players carry completely unprepared people through r10s. If strongest groups were able to do it without dying before, adding more durability won't make it that much different. That was the point I was trying and apparently failing to make.

 

[Rage]

They won’t nerf this. If you think this is too powerful, people haven’t played “the average” melee here.

SSG cannot continue to balance for the “extreme” meta builds. This feat is fine for “normals”.

The average MP probably sits around 200~250 for a capped melee DPS.

 

[woq]

No it really is that extreme. What R6-7 self healing can match this for sustain? Anything you can name will require far more investment than 2 feats.

Yeah I agree that it is fun to self sustain in those difficulties, which is why I have argued against the self healing penalty since the day it was announced. It just achieves it in the lamest possible way.

R6-R7 isn't the low difficulty I was thinking of. I was thinking about stuff like Mechgrabers paladin, a Ravager style barb and a Bladeforged artificer with a repeater.

But for a high reaper counter-argument, my friend was playing a Bladeforged repeater and was self-healing for 1k+ in R8 in combat every 6 seconds using just the SLA with access for more when needed, with full self heal out of combat similar to a melee would do with Fury every 30 seconds - with the positives/negatives being that you have to waste an action to do said healing, but the upside being that you don't need to be in melee and hit something to make that sustain happen.

 

[Concavenator]

I just don’t like the current design space where temp hp sources make a ton of sense but then basically all abilities that are “self heal” or just worthless.

Are we just going down the immunities road and playing wackamole to get around the self healing penalty?

same with dodge vs ac&incorporeal, some stats get to go in to r10 with no penalty others rendered useless just because

 

[Shear-buckler]

Oh well, I am not going to put that much effort into getting it nerfed, considering how completely busted it happens to be for my build

 

[rabidfox]

same with dodge vs ac&incorporeal, some stats get to go in to r10 with no penalty others rendered useless just because

Just reduce dodge per skull...

 

[woq]

same with dodge vs ac&incorporeal, some stats get to go in to r10 with no penalty others rendered useless just because

Dodge vs incorp, sure - incorp is unfairly penalized. The flat reduction from skulls is dumb.

Ac is not any worse in R10 compared to Elite though. AC is a very good defensive layer, it's just hard to get for DPS characters so it's mostly used by tanks/healers/EK arcanes instead.

 

[Concavenator]

Oh well, I am not going to put that much effort into getting it nerfed, considering how completely busted it happens to be for my build

ya its just annoying feeling like a sword hanging over ur build 24/7, i wish they just get it over with

 

[Concavenator]

Dodge vs incorp, sure - incorp is unfairly penalized. The flat reduction from skulls is dumb.

Ac is not any worse in R10 compared to Elite though. AC is a very good defensive layer, it's just hard to get for DPS characters so it's mostly used by tanks/healers/EK arcanes instead.

ac is ok i meant to said concealment

 

[Smokewolf]

riddle me this - when noob melee players pick me i will make them little bit harder to kill, when average melee players pick me they will never need a healer again in mid r, when top melee players with me they will solo r10 with ease. which feat im i?

L Strength of Arms is THE most poorly balanced feat in ddo history.

letting this thing out of pts is just irresponsible. ppl will have to put in their time and money to tr/tune their builds around it and right when it get popular ssg will panic and run out with their nerf guns and shoot the feat dead.



ps: now i thought about it more maybe this feat is ssg's way to put melee on par or a bit a head of range which is not a bad thing IF they can give meaningful buff to casters later too. but if they balance the classes this way most quest on r10 would end up feeling like r6 at best.

The rule of thumb is... Anything thats to your current advantage, will be Enshittified and then later sold back to you as an "upgrade" or "expansion".

 

[woq]

Oh well, I am not going to put that much effort into getting it nerfed, considering how completely busted it happens to be for my build

I am not arguing against it being OP. I'm arguing about this being some groundbreaking new thing that wasn't in the game before in some other way, when it was. Barbs/shifters had *better* sources of temp hp already than this via rageswap + tribute due to not requiring hitting and it being on your own terms to get it.

SSGs past reworks in recent history (since 2024) have shown they're increasing the average power level of characters by a lot. Monk both melee and shuri, Dragon Lord, Kensei, Repeaters, Inquisitors, Tricksters... Everything they touch has seen a tremendous rise in power with the exception of casters/nukers - and this level of self-sustain has already in some ways existed in the game before this via sentient rage swaps, now it's just more universally accessible so non-barbs and non-shifters can also reach a level of tankiness previously restricted to top builds.

In that realm of power increases - attacks doing +100%/+60% with increased threat/multi profiles and multihitting, or wrap monks getting a +60 mp adjustment and full uptime 95% dodge, or a rage swap providing now 1.6k temp hp on demand - is this even that out of left field? Hence why I maintain that we just need harder difficulties.

Sorry for all the posts here I'll stop flooding the thread now.

 

[Shear-buckler]

I am not arguing against it being OP. I'm arguing about this being some groundbreaking new thing that wasn't in the game before in some other way, when it was. Barbs/shifters had *better* sources of temp hp already than this via rageswap + tribute due to not requiring hitting and it being on your own terms to get it.

SSGs past reworks in recent history (since 2024) have shown they're increasing the average power level of characters by a lot. Monk both melee and shuri, Dragon Lord, Kensei, Repeaters, Inquisitors, Tricksters... Everything they touch has seen a tremendous rise in power with the exception of casters/nukers - and this level of self-sustain has already in some ways existed in the game before this via sentient rage swaps, now it's just more universally accessible so non-barbs and non-shifters can also reach a level of tankiness previously restricted to top builds.

In that realm of power increases - attacks doing +100%/+60% with increased threat/multi profiles and multihitting, or wrap monks getting a +60 mp adjustment and full uptime 95% dodge, or a rage swap providing now 1.6k temp hp on demand - is this even that out of left field? Hence why I maintain that we just need harder difficulties.

Sorry for all the posts here I'll stop flooding the thread now.

Nod nod, wink wink.

 

[Vish]

i have seena 6000 hp monk be a 7000 hp monk. that is world breaking

my reason is r10 is a tank environment so build for max dps, considering defense wont much be needed
so i kept to max dps
i already run affirmation in off hand so i see 6500. and can tank doom and bosses. so i figire the extra 1500 hp isnt needed.
probable best for solo runners and super zerg, or without a tank, which is 11 out of 12 raids/.

in other news. those myconid are tough huh?

 

[Vish]

and realize
there are healjers in the game
pretty much easy boat with one of them tagging

 

[Shear-buckler]

i have seena 6000 hp monk be a 7000 hp monk. that is world breaking

my reason is r10 is a tank environment so build for max dps, considering defense wont much be needed
so i kept to max dps
i already run affirmation in off hand so i see 6500. and can tank doom and bosses. so i figire the extra 1500 hp isnt needed.
probable best for solo runners and super zerg, or without a tank, which is 11 out of 12 raids/.

in other news. those myconid are tough huh?

2-3 affirmation procs every 6 seconds. Nothing to see here

 

[Darksteel]

either they nerf the feats or reduce melee penalties in raid and R10s..wont affect my inquis though (as long as that "dev" is at SSG)