ssg will nerf Legen Strength of Arms in 3 month right when most players start to enjoy it and ppl will be mad

[Gimp]

Having used this on 2 different builds at end game here's what I noticed. The internal cooldown as stated in the feat seems to work only some times. More often than not you acquire full stacks with a singe quick cutter. Then sometimes you just get a single 2x your melee power and then don't get another stack for 6 more seconds. Will this automagically make you able to solo high reaper? no. Does it drastically boost your survivability? Yes.

The two toons I used it on were a monk with 49%dodge mid/high 200's ac 300+fort, and a Swashlord 30%dodge low/mid 200s ac 300+fort. Both toons were just over 300mp. Not uber geared with perfect curses/reaper/mythic etc, Just smartly built and some sets that make sense. Both builds could already run r6 solo before and solo r8 at a much slower pace. Now they both feel like r6 is r1 and can do r8 at about the pace of the old r6.

Being able to take a hit from a doom/champ without your actual hp being docked is a huge help. It's why people make a bloodtribute swap to get temp hp. Now you don't even have to waste time doing a swap/primal shout for temp hp unless you really want to and double up temp hp effects.

All in all I freaking love the feats on melee builds.

Dont forget you also picked up 2 more levels and 8 destiny points. All of that makes it feel easier too. Do you think OP will suggest the nerf the 2 new levels also?

 

[Lotoc]

FvS's AoV tree having all their cores gutted wasn't because of high skull meta players.

The majority of people who bring this one up don't even know the actual reason it was done and blame hardcore popularity, those CL bonuses were from before the u48.4 spell pass and removed during the cleric pass which would introduce Dark Apostate and the reworked Divine Disciple.
and the truth is that as long as Favored Soul had +10 caster levels and maximum caster levels to all those spells there was no reason to play a Cleric caster in comparison, AoV didn't exist in a vacuum and was totally invalidating Divine Disciple as a light caster and had an egregious amount of caster level bonuses not even matched by a cold druid with reflection of wave. (mind the caster level bonuses were to pretty bad spells, but it was an issue masking just how bad spell options actually are for cleric and fvs)

Now both are in the muck with underwhelming spellbooks that skew heavily to fire rather than light damage.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Anyway, I don't even know why there's so much push back over this. Nearly everyone - melee, casters, and ranged - agreed prior that melee needed help defensively but the moment the devs throw us a bone these same people throw a fit. If the devs had instead added 25prr/mrr per melee combat style feat that doesn't show on health bars, would we be hearing such complaints?

There is push back from people who dont only rate the game design by how much power it adds to their characters.

If this is kept as is it will be a must-take crutch for every melee character and invalidate a massive range of class based healing abilities.

It is also just really backwards designed where it becomes much stronger in "weaker" content where its not nearly as needed while in the hardest content it is not nearly as strong.

Add to that the aweful design choice to make the non-legendary version more than 4 times weaker, for characters with far less melee power to begin with. A useless filler into a complete game changer. Why? No one would intentionally design this, it is just thrown together with no care or effort.

All-in-all it is just lazy and bad design and I really hope we will not get stuck with it.


This is not coming from a disgruntled caster, but from someone who plays a dodge monk, which is among the builds that benefit the absolute most from this feat. My power level went up like crazy by this.

 

[Vua]

There is nothing Hard about a relentless hard. Without SoA i could stand there on my barb and just keep swinging. Lets see you do it with SoA on R1 with a non-tank. Bet you cant and live.

I'm not sure what your point is since all I said was temp hit points isn't the reason they were able to stand there. Did I say it was hard?

Are you really bragging that you play this game so much and have so many lives you can withstand the damage on your barb. Here's a cookie. Do it on a barb with less than 10 lives and get back to me. Your ability to play a lot and talk trash don't mean a damn thing to me.

 

[PaleFox]

It is not strength of arms and it's legendary version that will be nerfed, instead melee power will get a hard cap for heroics, epics and legendary.
And ofc soon there after some items, feats and such will appear to raise the hard cap anyway, but you'll need the latest xpac for that to happen.

 

[Lotoc]

It is not strength of arms and it's legendary version that will be nerfed, instead melee power will get a hard cap for heroics, epics and legendary.
And ofc soon there after some items, feats and such will appear to raise the hard cap anyway, but you'll need the latest xpac for that to happen.

they'd never introduce a hard cap for melee power because it'd mean SSG doesn't get to play favorites and deny melee power to certain classes melee trees and have it actually be impactful.

 

[f1b041b3]

What I read on the forum is "if I can't have no fail dc in almost all schools why I play wizard?? Also give me competitive dps as well!"

Yeah, I get that they're annoyed that they often get denied from groups because more than one cc caster is usually unnecessary, but how do you change that? Give them stacking debuffs with short cooldowns so they're indirectly adding dps? The solution certainly isn't to have them excel at everything. Maybe the answer is that playing what are basically support characters should come with the expectation of being subject to some level of exclusion.

There is push back from people who dont only rate the game design by how much power it adds to their characters.

Then they're wrong because feats are there exactly to add power.

If this is kept as is it will be a must-take crutch for every melee character and invalidate a massive range of class based healing abilities.

Nearly every feat I take on my melees, from heroic to legendary, is "must take" - are they all crutches? Also, these feats have invalidated nothing. Players with these feats still require healing.

It is also just really backwards designed where it becomes much stronger in "weaker" content where its not nearly as needed while in the hardest content it is not nearly as strong.

If you're now saying that it's weaker than it appears to be on it's face, I wholeheartedly agree. It's still useful in group settings in high skull content, though I would rather have had extra prr/mrr/mrr cap added to every combat feat.

This is not coming from a disgruntled caster, but from someone who plays a dodge monk, which is among the builds that benefit the absolute most from this feat. My power level went up like crazy by this.

Good for you. For everyone else not playing a dodge monk, it's okay. You know, I don't even know what you're complaint is anymore. It's too good because an r2 toon can do r4 now? It's not good enough because the temp hp doesn't mean much in high skulls except on your dodge focused monk? What would you have done to increase the survivability of melees in raids and other punishing content?

 

[PaleFox]

they'd never introduce a hard cap for melee power because it'd mean SSG doesn't get to play favorites and deny melee power to certain classes melee trees and have it actually be impactful.

They're going to follow the same recipe they did with prr&mrr for the various armor types.
Could be they'll do it with fighting styles and grand two handed more melee power, great bows more melee power, all the way down to throwers have the least x-power and just above that the light weapons.

That way they can put a cap raise as an affix on the weapon as well, will be fun to see how sunswords and the like or a kama will pan out.

 

[Concavenator]

So you think suddenly there will be tons more melees vs ranged. You need a reality check buddy.

all i made was a prediction about an up coming nerf which will be easy enough to verify down the line. how about u hold the sass before we see who get the reality check for real buddy

 

[f1b041b3]

They're going to follow the same recipe they did with prr&mrr for the various armor types.
Could be they'll do it with fighting styles and grand two handed more melee power, great bows more melee power, all the way down to throwers have the least x-power and just above that the light weapons.

That way they can put a cap raise as an affix on the weapon as well, will be fun to see how sunswords and the like or a kama will pan out.

There's no reason to tie melee power to weapon/combat styles since these things are already balanced in the eyes the devs. Just like wizards trade dps nuking for dc-based instakills and crowd control, two handers trade the single target dps of two-weapon fighting for aoe strikethrough.

 

[f1b041b3]

all i made was a prediction about an up coming nerf which will be easy enough to verify down the line. how about we hold the sass before we see who get the reality check for real buddy

Your opening post was all sass and you seem to be offended by these feats being allowed to even exist.

Personally, these feats just keeps getting better and better, mainly because their detractors can't even agree on who they benefit the most... the "noob" casuals or r10 soloers. Perhaps all melee will be invincible in the end?

 

[mikarddo]

Glad you think like that, but most casters writing in this forum and in this thread have been complaining during the past year beacuse they want to Both have high R10 dps, high raid dps, and also be able to no fail at least 3-4 DC schools or more for cc, intantkill, etc. - just because they can take the spells they expect to be able to use them all. Even rangeds (that I really think require a nerf) can't do that much.

I hope the autumn update will be a rework and not just an overall buff.

You and I very clearly disagree on a very fundamental level.

I consider it obviously that a caster should be able to atleast somewhat use most of their spells relatively well - if they cannot there are simply too many mobs they cannot do anything about. Much unlike martial dps...

You also seem to put very high value on insta-kills where I consider them rather low value in quests because the mobs you cannot IK are usually the ones that matter, so insta killing is somewhat a placebo effect because you get kills for the count but you do not all real value.

You also consider a sorc a healer - but my barbarian tank is more of a healer than a sorc except for warforged.

We do agree on your last line though - a rework is needed and a buff alone would not make things good.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

If there is an issue with strength of arms, I'd say its with the cooldown being too short, which makes it function as a "win more" style feat, rather than help where melees might actually be struggling. (getting one shot in high level content)

I think blood feast and affirmation are a much better design paradigm for melee survivability/temp hp effects. Being both front loaded, and limited in applications (high cd or limited charges), they allow players to essentially make a mistake or two without dying, but don't let you ignore those mistakes forever.

Strength of arms on the other hand essentially functions as a heal over time, allowing players at mid-level difficulties to power though mid-tier damage as if its nothing. Its essentially god-mode for lower difficulties. Its a monster's version of a "you must be this tall to ride" sign.

I'm not sure it needs to be directly "nerfed" per se, rather reworked into a more healthy method of application.

 

[Graceunderpressure]

Just verified that l only took the Epic version. So yeah, does that make sense?

Toon has 29x mp and never saw a 500 but says it should stack x2?

 

[Scope333]

Game play changes over time OP. Get your panties out of a bunch...if SSG nerf...they nerf. It is ridiculous how so many run to the forums because of a change. The game changes...states it right in the ToS. It has changed quite dramatically over the last 20 years. It will be ok...regardless of what they do. Because whatever they do....ill find a way to adapt and overcome, regardless.

Of course all the ranged folks ran right to the forums to complain the second melee got anything beneficial. I pray the balance pass absolutely guts ranged builds.

 

[Skulz]

You and I very clearly disagree on a very fundamental level.

I consider it obviously that a caster should be able to atleast somewhat use most of their spells relatively well

Yeah we disagree, that's not something that should be even remotely possible. This game is all about specializing in 1-2 things and do them well.

If a caster wants to have a great dc on all spells while having a great dps, it would only make sense that a melee and even a ranged deserve other benefits. At that point melee will start asking for self-heals not influenced by R10, and if a caster can master all schools to CC any mob, then melee stunning blows should affect all mobs and be AoE - ...and there will be no end to the demands of all sides.

 

[rabidfox]

Of course all the ranged folks ran right to the forums to complain the second melee got anything beneficial. I pray the balance pass absolutely guts ranged builds.

I play mostly ranged, healers, and casters. I agree ranged needs reductions; it needs to be done in a way to deal with the overperforming builds without trashing the already meh tier stuff like bows, great xbows, & non-shuri throwers.

 

[Teh_Troll]

I play mostly ranged, healers, and casters. I agree ranged needs reductions; it needs to be done in a way to deal with the overpermforing builds without trashing the already meh tier stuff like bows, great xbows, & non-shuri throwers.

Which means SSG will fix this by somehow nerfing casters.

 

[Shear-buckler]

I would bet they just didnt know that it refreshes all stacks, and this is what will change. It will be a bug fix.

 

[Concavenator]

Your opening post was all sass and you seem to be offended by these feats being allowed to even exist.

Personally, these feats just keeps getting better and better, mainly because their detractors can't even agree on who they benefit the most... the "noob" casuals or r10 soloers. Perhaps all melee will be invincible in the end?

ur reading comprehension severely lacking. predicting a nerf and calling for a nerf r not the same thing.

if ssg keep the feat as it is then give meaningful buff to casters then some how rebalance the whole end game ok im with that.

if ssg do a speedy and miner course correct on the feat im ok with that too

what im not ok with is they wait for 3 month then nuke the feat when everyone ready dump a bunch time and money to build around it.