Stripping & Dispelling Death Immunity for DC casters.

[Smokewolf]

So where is it?

Obviously, Elemental Casters have Elemental Immunity stripping. So why can't DC casters Strip or Dispell Death Ward / Block?

Please consider that most non-bosses and Champions encountered have death immunities active. Despite not being able to cast spells or without having a natural immunity (such as Undead or Reaper).

While this may appear to be a trivial issue, the over use of death immunities really impacts the playablity of DC casters. Especially in higher difficulty setting as more than a third of mobs encountered can be immune. Often with DC casters being unable to DPS much due to their extreme focus on spell DC's. Which BTW, in higher difficulties, DC need to be over 110 to 120 just to have a "chance" to hit, thanks to mob stat-bloat.

 

[Smokewolf]

I use to think this way, but I've found that every so often switching up the spells (easier on a Cleric/Wizard than FvS/Sorc) and trying different combinations can be very enlightening. Learning that even Reapers have weaknesses to spells many who believe in the "one spell to rule them all" types believe are suboptimal.

There is a point that adding more spell power vs adding more DC and vice versa is a better investment. There are also times where a debuff actually saves spell points.

I've been playing a DC caster for about ten years... I think I'd know by now what is and what isn't viable on R10.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

One of the many detailed systems in D&D/DDO that has just been neglected, and/or was never coded properly, and/or has a bugged implementation.

In theory there should be a healthy mix of:
1) Death ward, cast by spell, removable by dispel magic. Unfortunately dispel magic was neglected and left with non-scaling DCs.
2) Death block, item effect, removable by disjunction. Unfortunately this was never coded as an item effect for monsters, and therefore can't be removed.
3) Permanent death immunity, for bosses/construct/etc..., cannot be removed.

 

[Smokewolf]

One of the many detailed systems in D&D/DDO that has just been neglected, and/or was never coded properly, and/or has a bugged implementation.

In theory there should be a healthy mix of:
1) Death ward, cast by spell, removable by dispel magic. Unfortunately dispel magic was neglected and left with non-scaling DCs.
2) Death block, item effect, removable by disjunction. Unfortunately this was never coded as an item effect for monsters, and therefore can't be removed.
3) Permanent death immunity, for bosses/construct/etc..., cannot be removed.

Yeah I realize that DC casters are borked far worse than DPS casters. Whole point of this thread is to bring attention to the situation SSG has created and refuses to address.

 

[droid327]

They could give non caster mobs potions of death ward. Hirelings can use potions after all.

But they really should replace blanket trash mob immunity with a high spell resistance buff instead. That accomplishes the same thing but isn't completely binary and unbreakable

 

[J1NG]

They could give non caster mobs potions of death ward. Hirelings can use potions after all.

But they really should replace blanket trash mob immunity with a high spell resistance buff instead. That accomplishes the same thing but isn't completely binary and unbreakable

The only issue with this approach, is that enemies that haven't triggered into active combat, could then be insta'd before they even get a pot off. And potions that aren't high enough level will wear off too soon for stuff like Epic/Legendary level content.

J1NG

 

[Smokewolf]

They could give non caster mobs potions of death ward. Hirelings can use potions after all.

But they really should replace blanket trash mob immunity with a high spell resistance buff instead. That accomplishes the same thing but isn't completely binary and unbreakable

Player immunities are largely ignored when it's convenient for SSG. Which speaks volumes when trash mobs are invincible without giving casters the tools needed to counter them.

 

[Phungki]

That's why my casters always have some dps. If you become a DC caster in the classic sense, you know you're going to be a liability and unable to complete a single quest on your own.

I solo'd my DC caster up to 34 with zero issues on R1. Not sure what you are talking about.

 

[Anurakh]

I solo'd my DC caster up to 34 with zero issues on R1. Not sure what you are talking about.

I'm talking about all those champions and bosses immune to IK. There are people who become DC casters, putting everything into DC, and then are unable to kill a single epic boss even on R1. There are others who at least set DPS for soloing R1, but not all of them are like that.

There are very few wizards in the entire game capable of soloing on high difficulties. People become obsessed with DC and then are unable to kill bosses because they lack the DPS.

 

[Smokewolf]

High R groups are all about Maximizing DC's by sacrificing the potential for DPS. To do otherwise makes the caster all but useless to group with.

There is no ambiguity here, it's either all or nothing, After all, DC spells award nothing if they can't hit. This is by design... What has me pissed is how SSG abuses immunities to keep casters as second class players vs physical DPS.

Edit: Most mobs should have immunities as their saves are just ridiculous already due to stat bloat.

 

[Anurakh]

High R groups are all about Maximizing DC's by sacrificing the potential for DPS. To do otherwise makes the caster all but useless to group with.

There is no ambiguity here, it's either all or nothing, After all, DC spells award nothing if they can't hit. This is by design... What has me pissed is how SSG abuses immunities to keep casters as second class players vs physical DPS.

I don't agree with that. Why I know this? My Wizard has DC for r10 and dps enough for killing bosses. Sure, its not a dps character. But she has dps enough for solo if is needed and of course for helping with the bosses.

As I said before, it's a widespread belief, and that's why most people build wizards with no DPS at all. There are very few wizards in the entire game capable of knocking out R10 bosses. Not because the class doesn't allow it, but because their players give up on building for it.

That doesn't mean the wizard has good DPS, mind you. They're different things.

 

[Smokewolf]

I don't agree with that. Why I know this? My Wizard has DC for r10 and dps enough for killing bosses. Sure, its not a dps character. But she has dps enough for solo if is needed and of course for helping with the bosses.

As I said before, it's a widespread belief, and that's why most people build wizards with no DPS at all. There are very few wizards in the entire game capable of knocking out R10 bosses. Not because the class doesn't allow it, but because their players give up on building for it.

That doesn't mean the wizard has good DPS, mind you. They're different things.

Oh I can DPS but know better that to blow my mana pool attacking a mob that's going to resist the Spells / SLA's I'd thow at it. Best compromise I've found has been Wiz / AA as the force imbues + multi-shot make for some nice force damage for minimal AP. All the while requiring ZERO mana!

Truth is, that this shouldn't be necessary if not for how over used immunities have become. (Thanks SSG!)

 

[Anurakh]

Oh I can DPS but know better that to blow my mana pool attacking a mob that's going to resist the Spells / SLA's I'd thow at it. Best compromise I've found has been Wiz / AA as the force imbues + multi-shot make for some nice force damage for minimal AP. All the while requiring ZERO mana!

Truth is, that this shouldn't be necessary if not for how over used immunities have become. (Thanks SSG!)

I repeat: a widespread misconception. You have enough mana for R10 quests. It's very rare for me to use spellpoint potions.

But I agree that SSG abuses immunities.

 

[Smokewolf]

I repeat: a widespread misconception. You have enough mana for R10 quests. It's very rare for me to use spellpoint potions.

I'm aware of my mana situation thanks.

 

[Anurakh]

I'm aware of my mana situation thanks.

Have you ever considered that if you run out of mana fighting High Reaper bosses, it's because you don't have enough DPS? And you don't have enough DPS because you don't build for it. And you don't build for it because you think it's useless.

It's a vicious circle...

 

[Smokewolf]

Have you ever considered that if you run out of mana fighting High Reaper bosses, it's because you don't have enough DPS? And you don't have enough DPS because you don't build for it. And you don't build for it because you think it's useless.

It's a vicious circle...

Your making a lot of assumptions to distract from the fact that DC casters are being gimped.

 

[Anurakh]

Your making a lot of assumptions to distract from the fact that DC casters are being gimped.

Casters, DC caster or nuker, are in a terrible place now. I have never said the opposite.You know very well that I have been asking for improvements for a long time. DC casting has now a silly number of obstacules, both in quests in raids. There are so many mobs immune to IKs that it's ridiculous, and in raids, there are basically no important mobs that can be IKed, only the weakest and most unnecessary trash. In legendaries, there's basically no group of mobs that doesn't have at least one mob immune to CC. Now, Weapon damage is king. Weapon users' CC and defenses have been greatly improved and now DC casters are not needed in groups.

So, I have not said anything else. But that's different than saying you need to have zero dps if you're a DC caster in high reaper. That is not true. It is a too widespread misconception.

PS: writing on phone

 

[Magrok]

I agree with this thread, but just keep in mind that if players can do it, so should enemy casters. I don't feel great about having my own deathblock stripped away.

 

[Quartis]

perfect place to suggest a new Skill for the empty slot of archmage Tier 5; a debuff that allows this things.

A single target debuff, no save but spell ress, counts as curse, normal spell range. 4sp 40s dur 20s cd
meta magic: quick & range
Multiselct
Magic over Mind: -3 WillSave, -10 MRR, +10% force dmg, can be affected by mind effects like fear, hold person, charm, dance, phantom kill, ... . Red Monsters/Bosses are still immune.
Magic over Body: -3 Fortitude Save, -10 MRR, +10% force dmg, penetrate Deathblock. Red Monsters/Bosses are still immune.
Magic over Agility: -3 Reflex Save, -10 MRR, +10% force dmg, Evasion skill does not work.

 

[Smokewolf]

perfect place to suggest a new Skill for the empty slot of archmage Tier 5; a debuff that allows this things.

A single target debuff, no save but spell ress, counts as curse, normal spell range. 4sp 40s dur 20s cd
meta magic: quick & range
Multiselct
Magic over Mind: -3 WillSave, -10 MRR, +10% force dmg, can be affected by mind effects like fear, hold person, charm, dance, phantom kill, ... . Red Monsters/Bosses are still immune.
Magic over Body: -3 Fortitude Save, -10 MRR, +10% force dmg, penetrate Deathblock. Red Monsters/Bosses are still immune.
Magic over Agility: -3 Reflex Save, -10 MRR, +10% force dmg, Evasion skill does not work.

Debuffs don't mean much when Dev's have historicaly ignored them in favor of giving mobs absolute immunities.

Consider that a caster has do first defeat a mobs spell resistance before spell DC are even factored in. Meanwhile player SR is a joke and is largely pointless past heroic leveling.

 

[Smokewolf]

I agree with this thread, but just keep in mind that if players can do it, so should enemy casters. I don't feel great about having my own deathblock stripped away.

Mobs don't play by the same rules as players.

DDO's AI can't manage basic encounters without the pathing being overly simplified (still fails despite thus) and stat-bloat / immunities that make up for its lack of tactical-intelligence.

In other words, the AI cheats... Always has.