Perhaps. One could also play devil's advocate and say that unbalanced games are boring because everyone either opts, or gets pressured, to play the optimal choice. Not that I have any real opinion on this one way or the other though.
Suggestion: Spread boosts to Hirelings and summons to more Destiny trees.
- Thread starter NightHiker
- Start date
rabidfox
The People's Champion
There's a difference between unbalanced and extreme outlier levels. Unbalanced can be as simple as class A does massive single target damage but is bad at everything else, class B does amazing AoE but bad at single target. They might be balanced for team play but individually they're extremely unbalanced; it's only a problem with class B's AoE > class A's single target which would be extreme outlier levels of damage.
NightHiker
Well-known member
I have no issue with any of this. If hires give people without access to full parties a better chance at progressing thru lower reaper settings and eventually be part of the reaper club if they so desire, I'm all for it - even it it means any further scaling makes it harder for me to use them at higher reapers. As I said, r10 was not really in the mix, and I tried to make that clear afterwards - it was just meant as an extreme example to counter the opposite extreme.
Cheers,
NH
A video of someone soloing r10 = nerf
that is SSG philosophy R10 is supposed to be a deadly challenge for 6 strong players.
IF you really wanted to be helpfull for the players using hire you would have posted R4 .Strong enough to make a point but not too strong.
the only thing that *might* delay hire nerf is the upcoming sale of myth Dranor if they neff hire now they will lose a lot of money .
Was it by hubris that you killed any hope of ever seeing a summoner build…?
Anyway they just did a big balance pass what were you thinking…?
Personnally i play with 5 hires on legendary and I struggle at R1
But then again my class add nothing to the hire strengh (I was a DL/monk before and I am pure rogue assassin now)
Oh well I am waiting on WoW cataclysm or everquest new tlp now anyway.
that is SSG philosophy R10 is supposed to be a deadly challenge for 6 strong players.
IF you really wanted to be helpfull for the players using hire you would have posted R4 .Strong enough to make a point but not too strong.
the only thing that *might* delay hire nerf is the upcoming sale of myth Dranor if they neff hire now they will lose a lot of money .
Was it by hubris that you killed any hope of ever seeing a summoner build…?
Anyway they just did a big balance pass what were you thinking…?
Personnally i play with 5 hires on legendary and I struggle at R1
But then again my class add nothing to the hire strengh (I was a DL/monk before and I am pure rogue assassin now)
Oh well I am waiting on WoW cataclysm or everquest new tlp now anyway.
Its basic human psychology , lets take a weird scenario
you MUST have dinner with some folks that HATE rich peoples AND you arrive driving an expensive sport car , wearing an expensive suit and a rolex, do you really think they will react positively?
SSG HATE everything that can solo R 10 you show you can and ask them to spread it to as many build as possible …?
Really?
you MUST have dinner with some folks that HATE rich peoples AND you arrive driving an expensive sport car , wearing an expensive suit and a rolex, do you really think they will react positively?
SSG HATE everything that can solo R 10 you show you can and ask them to spread it to as many build as possible …?
Really?
NightHiker
Well-known member
Yeah, folks... No negativity at all. Only fair evaluations of my suggestions, with no mind paid to any sort of conspiracy about SSG. I don't know what I was thinking...
If you guys wanna keep chatting about this, be my guest. I just give up, and won't be coming back to this thread. Or this forum, to be frank. It's too sickening.
Cheers,
NH
P.S.: Just to address this last accusation, before going: my build is far from a secret - it has its own page in the Stormsinger subforums, full of prints and videos of me running high reapers. I'm very certain people at SSG are well aware of it, and have been for a while, as I didn't just start to do this now. To state that I'm divulging this "huge secret" that will make SSG nerf hirelings from orbit is preposterous.
But this is the place this forum has become. There are very good people around here, don't get me wrong. But unfortunately the majority of the posts I see is from people engaged in a peer game of attacking SSG for automatic likes.
If you guys wanna keep chatting about this, be my guest. I just give up, and won't be coming back to this thread. Or this forum, to be frank. It's too sickening.
Cheers,
NH
P.S.: Just to address this last accusation, before going: my build is far from a secret - it has its own page in the Stormsinger subforums, full of prints and videos of me running high reapers. I'm very certain people at SSG are well aware of it, and have been for a while, as I didn't just start to do this now. To state that I'm divulging this "huge secret" that will make SSG nerf hirelings from orbit is preposterous.
But this is the place this forum has become. There are very good people around here, don't get me wrong. But unfortunately the majority of the posts I see is from people engaged in a peer game of attacking SSG for automatic likes.
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seph1roth5
Well-known member
There certainly is a learning curve regarding their usage, and together with the general idea that persists among the player base that hirelings are useless in any context, any difficulty they have with them is usually enough to confirm their biases and prevent them from further trying to improve their skill at utilizing them. They certainly have a limited AI, and we sure should not expect them to behave like an experienced player would, but I am constantly witness to them not being as bad as you claim.
The Muse uses irresistible dances on reapers and champions all the time, providing timely CC for people who don't have any (or can't get their DCs high enough to be fully reliable). As I said before, Albereth is pretty good at healing both me and the other hirelings and even other players, so even a regular one can be useful. The Shield Guardian is the best tank among the perma ones, and the raptor is the best at actually hitting things.
The legendary summons, well utilized, can be farmed for free and can keep aggro and tank bosses for long enough for you to kill them.
I certainly would never be able to complete quests on such high difficulties if they were as brain dead as you say. If you don't solo much or are always on full pugs, then sure, you don't have much reason to invest on learning how to use them better. But for people who solo frequently or play on small parties it's a good skill to have even now, depending on their build, and could be even better with the changes I propose.
Cheers,
NH
My group uses hirelings all the time, 99% of them are brain dead lol. I'm not familiar w/ the muse, but even albereth is suicidal. He'll charge in and melee (while on defensive). Even putting them on passive only works most of the time. Passive is the only way to not have healer hirelings suck and die, and then there's a frequent bug where if you forget to take them off passive, they stay in the quest and break the party, where you have to reform.
Maybe you've gotten accustomed to using them, but the vast majority of players thinks they're crap from lots and lots of experience. WE'RE not the outlier here lol. But either way, making their AI better would be good for you too?
droid327
Well-known member
Keep them viable, absolutely. I think where they are in HE/EE is about right. So keep them at that level where they're not a liability for you, where they dont need more help from you than you get from them.
Just dont buff them beyond that, to the point where they're strong enough to actually start carrying the load in questing for you - thats what I'm saying we dont need - and thats what we'd get if we had major increases to summon buffs, and an increase in hire availability
So I still don't agree with your conclusion but I at least can see where you are coming from here. And I will say that I agree, in this game, hirelings should not be able to outright carry you because they are not your only source of power. It would be different if there was a true summoner class, like say FFXI, where all of their power is in their summons. That's not the case here and never could be, I don't believe. They are meant to be an assistant, not the star of the show.
Sophie The Cat Burglar
Exotic Items Recovery Specialist
The developers have stated many times that working on hire algorithms would require a massive time investment for an uncertain outcome.
Based on how quickly Steelstar and Tonquin put together new trait trees, adding some new trait tree enhancements for hires seems like something easily within thier capabilities. Tonquin can rapidly create new equipment and gems. Steelstar can probably do the same.
In my opinion, it makes more sense to discuss possible stuff than impossible stuff.
Things that make my hires more sturdy are very helpful.
As an aside, in the run up to Sharn, I campaigned for a new tank hire. Sharn releeased with the Shield Guardian. That was one of my better suggestions.
Based on how quickly Steelstar and Tonquin put together new trait trees, adding some new trait tree enhancements for hires seems like something easily within thier capabilities. Tonquin can rapidly create new equipment and gems. Steelstar can probably do the same.
In my opinion, it makes more sense to discuss possible stuff than impossible stuff.
Things that make my hires more sturdy are very helpful.
As an aside, in the run up to Sharn, I campaigned for a new tank hire. Sharn releeased with the Shield Guardian. That was one of my better suggestions.