Sundering Swings and Dire Charge

[chocothunder]

Hi there. I'm sure this has been answered already, but I couldn't find it so here is the question again.

How does LD's Sundering Swings interact with the side effects of Dire Charge? I'm specially wondering whether Momentum Swing (which applies trip to Dire Charge) will render targets helpless if they are dropped.

Thanks!

 

[Marshal_Lannes]

Tripped targets are not helpless targets but stunned targets are.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Tripped targets are not helpless targets but stunned targets are.

Improved Trip (from feats or Fury ED) makes mobs helpless with Sundering Swings. I wonder if this is what the OP is referring to?

I think I recall helpless damage applying when I had Improved Trip and Sundering Swings with Direcharge, but I'm not 100% on that as it was some time ago I swapped out my Improved Trip and Sundering Swings for stuff in the Shadow Dancer tree.

Sorry I can't be more helpful beyond suggesting you suck it and see as the costs for an ED respec aren't too prohibitive. ?

 

[unbongwah]

How does LD's Sundering Swings interact with the side effects of Dire Charge? I'm specially wondering whether Momentum Swing (which applies trip to Dire Charge) will render targets helpless if they are dropped.

Is there some reason you would take Momentum Swing and Sundering Swings but not Lay Waste?

When you use your Dire Attack, enemies must now also save or be Stunned. Stun DC is: 20 + highest ability score + bonus to Stun attacks.​

 

[chocothunder]

I was indeed refering to how Sundering Swing make your Improved Trip make targets helpless. What I can't tell is if targets tripped through Momentum Swing would also be made helpless, or only those tripped specifically through the Improved Trip feat. I'll try to test it myself in due time, but I ETR'd recently so it'll be a while...

Can't think of a reason not to take Lay Waste, but since they are on different saves (Ref and Fort), I guess a mob can be affected by one of the effects but not the other

 

[The Blonde]

I am fairly certain that Sundering Swings only applies to the actual Improved Trip ability, and not to Momentum-Swing-boosted-DireCharge.