The failure that is Arcane Trickster

[Dom]

My theory is it's best to go double capstone with 41 Arcane Trickster 41 Feydark Illusionist
( though you would need 2 universal tomes from different expansions to do it )

You can't have two capstones.

In this rare case not having any synergy with the other two rogue trees is a benefit.

No, it isn't. As pointed out by a few people already, Ying included, the current state of the game doesn't support hybrid builds (trying to be a melee and caster), and having no synergy with other class trees is pointless - why even incorporate them at that point?

 

[Elves United]

You can't do 2 capstones. Capstones (just like T5s) are limited; once you take one, it prevents you from taking more.

Hmmm, I thought you could. Never tried it myself.
Well in that case, 41 arcane trickster 31 feydark ( more if going t5 in it ) 3 Acrobat (+20% move )

It's not a hybrid build. It's a pure caster build.
An Arcane Trickster acrobat build would be pure melee build. T5 + core acrobat T4 AT ( not even int based )
An Arcane Trickster mechanic build would be pure ranged build. T5 + core mechanic. T4 AT

Arcane Trickster does not support hybrids. It supports choosing a lane and sticking to it.

Though have to see what the next preview holds. I suspect major changes.

 

[Jasparius]

I won't know Fiz till I play it.

Hope you are well, I haven't seen you since the server scrambble.

I gotta laugh at all the "FAILURE" comments with just a Lamannia test and a wiki page. Maybe it's fun, I could see that. I will just put 3 lives of it like everyone else on my completionist toons.

Let's say it really bad...?

How often have we all done lives we don't like like since we need or want them? Than it's done.

Doing the compulsory 3 and then never again isnt just a fail. Its an abject failure.

A massive waste of time and effort from SSG followed by us.

 

[droid327]

An Arcane Trickster acrobat build would be pure melee build. T5 + core acrobat T4 AT ( not even int based )

Once we get presumably the fourth Uni tome with Abyss later this year, you could go 41 TA 31 AT 12 Harper, int based, and have a couple useful spells (Soundburst on DD DC, Heal, MM and whatever CM ends up becoming)

It's not a bad combo, with high dodge cap and 45% strikethrough baked in, though not really strong

 

[Elves United]

Once we get presumably the fourth Uni tome with Abyss later this year, you could go 41 TA 31 AT 12 Harper, int based, and have a couple useful spells (Soundburst on DD DC, Heal, MM and whatever CM ends up becoming)

It's not a bad combo, with high dodge cap and 45% strikethrough baked in, though not really strong

As Personal Damage: Insightful Damage is available as a stolen spell you can get away with 8 Harper and not need any uni tomes at all.
Though it would cost you soundburst and I can can see the appeal of hitting with soundburst a group of enemies with 6 seconds of stun, jump in the middle of the group while they can't do anything to hurt you, then hit them with flash freeze for 120+ seconds of stun and helpless. All with DCs equal to your disarm skill which can pump up at levels above 150 ( far beyond what the most DC geared out/ past-lived bard or wizard could pull off ) and to the point where even r10 lamordia enemies only can resist by rolling a natural 20 on their saves.

It is the ability to do stuff like that which makes me think the devs are going to change their mind on Disarm as DC with the next preview.

 

[Contessor]

My theory is it's best to go double capstone with 41 Arcane Trickster 41 Feydark Illusionist
( though you would need 2 universal tomes from different expansions to do it )
Using that combo may give you the illusion DC to overcome Arcane Tricksters weakness and has a lot of force spellpower boosts.
As well as the 100% magic Ambush.
Which one is better to go tier 5 in depends on how well you like Presto.

In this rare case not having any synergy with the other two rogue trees is a benefit.

How can you go double capstone?

 

[Ying]

An Arcane Trickster mechanic build would be pure ranged build. T5 + core mechanic. T4 AT

You've never played an effective gxbow build. It requires Endless Fusillade. The only way to get that is dipping into Artificer 4 levels so you can get it in T4 Battle Engineer. Without EF, you are doing mediocre damage. Once you spend all that AP in Battle Engineer and Mechanic, you have no AP to send in Trickster. All of this I spelled out in the analysis you didn't read through.

 

[Dom]

How can you go double capstone?

Read above, you can't.

 

[pirotessa]

Hmmm, I thought you could. Never tried it myself.

You probably shouldnt offer builds or suggestions when you have no idea of what youre talking about. Please go test first and then report a build idea.

 

[Culdraug]

I actually have a smol question for the folks in this thread, that maybe some folks could help with.

I think the one thing I haven't read or seen a lot of in the feedback is what would be cool or exciting. If this archetype isn't exciting to you, what would be, and why would it be exciting? What would you do with it? I'm curious because it could help add new details to everything else being said here.

Hi, I think someone else mentioned adding negative healing, but I would like to throw my 2 cents in.

I would love this and think it could be added without changing much. AT already has heals, just add an additional selector for negative healing. It would be better if it were arcane aura's (since it is an arcane class) but the divine harm version of heals would work.

I see good synergy with the dhampir. The sneak attack dice and such.

Thanks!

 

[Elves United]

You've never played an effective gxbow build. It requires Endless Fusillade. The only way to get that is dipping into Artificer 4 levels so you can get it in T4 Battle Engineer. Without EF, you are doing mediocre damage. Once you spend all that AP in Battle Engineer and Mechanic, you have no AP to send in Trickster. All of this I spelled out in the analysis you didn't read through.

I've played inquisitive. I've played battle engineer repeater. But I drew the line at mechanic. I came to the same conclusion you did but the numbers didn't work for me even after adding Battle Engineer splash.

But yes arcane trickster mechanic would be a pure gxbow build. It would make the pure mechanic build stronger but it would still be lacking compared to a multi-class build.

 

[Dom]

I've played inquisitive. I've played battle engineer repeater. But I drew the line at mechanic. I came to the same conclusion you did but the numbers didn't work for me even after adding Battle Engineer splash.

But yes arcane trickster mechanic would be a pure gxbow build. It would make the pure mechanic build stronger but it would still be lacking compared to a multi-class build.

All of that just to re-iterate what Ying said above... You do you, but based on your posts above, please don't go around spewing build advice.

It is a bit sad, but says a lot, when the best use for a new archetype in people's minds is subpar flavour.

 

[Ying]

It is a bit sad, but says a lot, when the best use for a new archetype in people's minds is subpar flavour.

Yep. Trickster could have been solid, but requires alot of ancillary changes. SSG's technical debt with spell damage, the DC system and non-synergistic enhancement trees are the downfall of Trickster.

 

[rabidfox]

It is a bit sad, but says a lot, when the best use for a new archetype in people's minds is subpar flavour.

It's a bit like running a Renegade Mastermaker arti build; but with less utility. I can see a lot of flavor setups, some cheesy fun, a few utility leaning/lower DPS ideas, but they generally come out behind other build options in the game for at cap (they'll be great for fun leveling with swiss army knife bit of everything in the tree entertainment). A big part of AT's issues is that mechanic and acrobat are dated trees that don't hold up well by current standards. If one wants to do a ranged 20 AT, best off going 41/T5 inquis and not mechanic, and even then it's better to splash arti levels for runearm usage.

 

[EinarMal]

Yep. Trickster could have been solid, but requires alot of ancillary changes. SSG's technical debt with spell damage, the DC system and non-synergistic enhancement trees are the downfall of Trickster.

Agree. I will probably just do AT 15/Art 4/Fighter 1 PDK I prefer iconic lives for quick leveling. Should be fine as Inquisitive and then move on after 3x lives. The no fail extra CC and sneak dice will work well.

 

[droid327]

But yes arcane trickster mechanic would be a pure gxbow build.

I don't think that would be the way to play it

Mech capstone is hot garbage even for a pure mech. Better off going 36 mech with T5s, 41 at for capstone to get full Ambush scaling, 3 Harper, and playing it as an actual hybrid: using your spells for CC and Chain/Seeds for AoE, and weaving in GXB shots in between and for cleanup.

 

[Elves United]

All of that just to re-iterate what Ying said above... You do you, but based on your posts above, please don't go around spewing build advice.

It is a bit sad, but says a lot, when the best use for a new archetype in people's minds is subpar flavour.

Yes I was saying Ying is correct.
And I'm just spitballing, just trying to make sense out of Arcane Trickster and how it would work ( or won't work ) with melee, ranged, caster or hybrid. I hope that no one would take a 1 or 2 line example as a build. I've written builds before and it was with much more research, effort and with established released classes.

 

[DBZ]

You assume trickster will be a melee/caster hybrid? I feel like it will be more caster oriented, especially as you gain levels. There is some interesting stuff with trickster. Like stealing a magic ability from another caster. Having a big hand to help move things at a distance or attack an enemy in melee range, from a distance. I hope it is more like in my head, than what you expect.

Its useless at everything else so

 

[DBZ]

Hmmm, I thought you could. Never tried it myself.
Well in that case, 41 arcane trickster 31 feydark ( more if going t5 in it ) 3 Acrobat (+20% move )

It's not a hybrid build. It's a pure caster build.
An Arcane Trickster acrobat build would be pure melee build. T5 + core acrobat T4 AT ( not even int based )
An Arcane Trickster mechanic build would be pure ranged build. T5 + core mechanic. T4 AT

Arcane Trickster does not support hybrids. It supports choosing a lane and sticking to it.

Though have to see what the next preview holds. I suspect major changes.

Laugh EMOJI

 

[h46av8r]

I will be trying this on a ki bolt build

I watched Strimtom testing spells, SLAs, etc. live during the recent Lamannia preview and confirmed with him just now - ki bolt was not proc'ing magical ambush. Likely because under the hood ki bolt is not coded as a spell. Interestingly, Torc was in the chat and taking notes - sounds like this may not be working as intended i.e. might get fixed - but be sure to confirm first before TRing...