The Frankenstein monster that is Heroic Content

rabidfox

The People's Champion
I have been arguing for over a decade that all difficulties should reward max favor. We have long been pushing people to play elite (back when that was the most difficult setting) even though they were not strong enough for it, because elite is mandatory for favor. If you save the mayor daughter from the trolls you should be awarded full favor. He is not going to hold back how much he likes you based on how hard the trolls hit. You did his quest, you get his favor. Period.
Favor is tied to DDO points rewards. So unless they rework how DDO points are handed out, I don't see SSG changing that.
 

erethizon1

Well-known member
Turbine did not design the game to zerg through content at the fastest clip possible. That is why there are run out quests in the Sands, BoB in Searing Heights, Devil Battlefield etc. It was always a challenge to group in the early DDO years but alot of fun once you got a group going. The game was originally designed as a dungeon Crawl. -2 day player here, not beta but early nonetheless

I am not suggesting Reaper be the default grouping mode though in reality it already is in 2/3 of the cases. I am suggesting that Reaper mode expand the range you can get a delving bonus on Heroics so you can actually post more groups that can fill. This is an issue on Thelanis Heroic and apparently Epic these days as well. I was grinding away at Legendary these past few months building up multiple Dino weapons and sentient gems. I don't have a problem with grinding I do have a problem with grouping being a joke at certain levels due to set and forget monetization that is detrimental to grouping.

Why get defensive about Delving bonuses when there are options like Iconic Reincarnations that make that XP irrelevant anyways? Unfortunately Iconics also destroy the grouping in Heroics given their high XP value.

Perhaps the best compromise is a HIGH XP required Heroic leveling option, with relaxed delving requirements and alot more feat goodies waiting for you at the end. This would have the Positive effect of allowing more people to group, more often in Heroic. It would even help people not on the High XP track as the players that were on that track would be around to group with. Net impact: more groups for newer/low level players
I'm trying to understand what you are asking for. Are you asking for decreased exp for elite and R1, or additional exp above the current amount for R3+?

I don't much care one way or another what they do with regular exp because there is already way too much of it. The only problem with increasing the amount of exp given is that it would cause people to skip an even higher percentage of the game every life (since there are not many people like me that play every quest every life even though they don't need the exp for it).

I'd be more inclined to reward higher reaper with more RXP or, even better, a higher chance of reaper and mythic gear drops. It's pretty pathetic that we can play all day on mid to high reaper and get no reaper items at all.
 

Tanis

Well-known member
So why not give people a different way to earn at least some of the past live feats or server wide equivalents? Is the boring the main sales pitch for an Otto's Box?

The quests have nice design elements, it's really a shame.
There are different ways to earn it

Buy boxes

Iconic which start at 15 & skip most of heroic

Thinking heroic is boring is an opinion
 

Jasparius

Well-known member
The main thing stopping people is poor RXP, poor exp per minute, and poor chance of better loot. I spent all of last night dual boxing R6 heroic quests for 100 to 200 more RXP per quest and absolutely no reaper bonus items dropping the entire night (for either account). The reward is not there so I don't blame people for not joining my R6 heroic groups. I don't care about regular exp, but increasing RXP and increasing how often reaper bonus items drop would both be quite beneficial.

I wouldn't say the vast majority want E and R1 so much as those are the only difficulties properly rewarded. Lower difficulties don't give full favor (I think this should change) and higher difficulties don't increase RXP or loot drop chance enough to make them worthwhile either.

R1 is generally 200 to 400 RXP. R5 is often over 1,000 RXP.

Are you sure you are doing R6 ?
 

Positive thinking

Well-known member
I'm trying to understand what you are asking for. Are you asking for decreased exp for elite and R1, or additional exp above the current amount for R3+?

I don't much care one way or another what they do with regular exp because there is already way too much of it. The only problem with increasing the amount of exp given is that it would cause people to skip an even higher percentage of the game every life (since there are not many people like me that play every quest every life even though they don't need the exp for it).

I'd be more inclined to reward higher reaper with more RXP or, even better, a higher chance of reaper and mythic gear drops. It's pretty pathetic that we can play all day on mid to high reaper and get no reaper items at all.
For sure they have messed with all the drop rates, thats why we have treasure elixirs and rerolls. Stop falling for the trap just ignore trying to maximize gear and enjoy the game as is.
 

dur

Paladin. Disruptor. Since the 1970s
Other that RXP, why run high reaper? Is the loot that much better? If R10 is easy, devs need to step it up.

If you're too uber, yer not 'playing right,' IMHO

@Reaped and Ravaged I'm also confused, still, about heroics being... what? Frankenstein? Because it's "boring?" Maybe play another game for a while? They have stealth changed several quests and more are sure to follow.
 

dur

Paladin. Disruptor. Since the 1970s
98% of their attention goes to LOTRO.
Lotro has NO f2p. Lotro is *probably more incoming USD, all around. Why wouldn't they give it more?

I can, but due to the combination of high challenge and miniscule rewards, noone is joining. And while I'm a decent player, I can't solo lvl 3 r10s, sadly.
That's the mini-game. Building a toon that can.

I'm really curious, now, how many paying players are participating in this discussion...
 
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erethizon1

Well-known member
Favor is tied to DDO points rewards. So unless they rework how DDO points are handed out, I don't see SSG changing that.
Most players are capable of playing on elite+ (at least in a group) so it wouldn't have much of an impact on people's ability to earn favor and DDO points, it would simply allow players to choose the actual difficulty they want to play instead of elite being the minimum. What has happened instead is good enough. Over the last decade there has been enough power creep that elite is as hard as normal used to be, so I effectively got what I wanted (which is why I no longer make threads about it), but it still would be for the best for all difficulties to give max favor.
 

Anurakh

Little Nixie
An rxp increase won't make heroics much more played in high reaper. Heroics are played in fast difficulties because people want to get their PLs before they die of old age, there are too many of them, so if you want substantial progress, you can't just go smelling the flowers along the way, you have to go fast. And let's be realistic, playing high reaper when most builds don't have their defining abilities is a no-no for most people.

I have played high reaper on heroics for fun on occasion. I don't want to and refuse to do it on a regular basis. The two reasons are as stated above: it's more fun to do it in cap when I have my full build and when I do heroics, it's to get PLs, so I want to get them before I die of old age.
 

Reaped and Ravaged

Well-known member
I'm trying to understand what you are asking for. Are you asking for decreased exp for elite and R1, or additional exp above the current amount for R3+?

I don't much care one way or another what they do with regular exp because there is already way too much of it. The only problem with increasing the amount of exp given is that it would cause people to skip an even higher percentage of the game every life (since there are not many people like me that play every quest every life even though they don't need the exp for it).

I'd be more inclined to reward higher reaper with more RXP or, even better, a higher chance of reaper and mythic gear drops. It's pretty pathetic that we can play all day on mid to high reaper and get no reaper items at all.
I'm asking for the removal of all the Dolores Umbridge cobwebs of XP rules in Heroic and come up with a better Choose Your Own Challenge level system that allows you to group together with more people at any given level. R1 and R2 tend to be so easy in practice for a "challenge mode" that all the DDO points are basically a freebie for bored players. R3+ should sensibly eliminate the xp penalties for grouping with players above the base level. I.E. R3 of a base level 9 quest allows you to group with players at level 12 with no lost XP for the 1st time you play, in a day.

Delving bonus has no place in a game that has 100s of quests more than when it was introduced. Milked content like Shadow Tomb should give 80% less XP the 2nd time you play in a day. You should have to wait to play it 24 hours to get the same XP.
 

Reaped and Ravaged

Well-known member
Gear is not character progression.
I know I should focus on Heroic content in this thread but Gear IS progression in the Legendary game. Gear IS progression with S/S/S gear at lvl 20.

75 reaper fragments gives you the heroic completionist benefit on a helmet. It just doesn't go on feat list and it is restricted that helmet.

I got 2 of these helmets before being able to craft them but I understand the "RNG" challenge is really there and I benefited from a very experienced and gracious Dark Hunter passing me one of those.

Granted there are people in Legendary Red Dragon Armor running around with no understanding that Deathward prevents level draining so you might have a point.
 
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Darkwolfer2002

Well-known member
I find heroics (low level) boring not because of the content but because I don't have my abilities and feats yet. I hate having to grind through the same ol' quests for the 100th or so time just to get my power back so I can eventually do it all again for that small bit of increase power for the next life.
 

erethizon1

Well-known member
I'm asking for the removal of all the Dolores Umbridge cobwebs of XP rules in Heroic and come up with a better Choose Your Own Challenge level system that allows you to group together with more people at any given level. R1 and R2 tend to be so easy in practice for a "challenge mode" that all the DDO points are basically a freebie for bored players. R3+ should sensibly eliminate the xp penalties for grouping with players above the base level. I.E. R3 of a base level 9 quest allows you to group with players at level 12 with no lost XP for the 1st time you play, in a day.

Delving bonus has no place in a game that has 100s of quests more than when it was introduced. Milked content like Shadow Tomb should give 80% less XP the 2nd time you play in a day. You should have to wait to play it 24 hours to get the same XP.
I'm fine lowering the exp in quests. As you say, we have many more quests than we used to and I see little harm in having to run more of them each life. I'm also good with making the repetition of quests far less rewarding, especially if they make most of the quest packs available for free or cheap (like the free quest code or lowering the price of all older packs to 25 store points).

As for favor, I think all difficulties should reward max favor. If you do the NPC's task, you have his favor. It makes no sense to repeat the same task you just did on a higher difficulty for more favor because the task was just completed. From a story perspective repeating quests makes no sense. I can tolerate it if people want to do it but there shouldn't be a game mechanic, like favor, tied to having to repeat a quest (like the way people have to run normal to unlock hard, and hard to unlock elite/reaper, and they have to run that highest difficulty to be able to get the full favor of a quest.
 

Justfungus

Well-known member
To the OP, they have a name for it, it is called 'Power Creep'
New shineys to keep max characters buying stuff.
Power creep is like a cancer in a game, once it is there, it will only grow and get worse.
 
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