The inability to stop zerging

[Gordo]

Some players cannot stop zerging. They simply can't help themselves. The new expansion is great. It really is. Underdark vibe evolution from Eveningstar to now is extraordinary, and the graphics team deserves mountains of credit for creating a gorgeous abyss. Years of speeding up the game, however, have made this expansion almost impossible to enjoy as a public grouping standard MMO experience.

I define in an LFM - not zerging. Within the group, I say slow down. I even say please. And still, multiple days now, I get players that race through the quest, hit objectives, do optionals, start boss fights without the whole group in the room/area. We have not seen these things yet! Stop zerging. Of course, when you point these things out, they act like you're the bad guy.

It has become a matter of etiquette that was lost somewhere in the endless TR cycle. Groups almost never used to race past the party leader. Now it is quite common. You should be moving at the pace of the party leader. If you don't like the pace, leave and start your own group. Instead, we have people who co-opt the group and run the quests how they want to run them. Should I dissolve the group then? That makes me look like the jerk. Inflexible. Draconian for wanting to see the boss fight.

Does the game incentivize zerging? It does. But there will always be an excuse that some players find, no matter what the game did. "I have to zerg up to level 36!" Why? "I have to zerg for more reaper points!" Why? "I have to zerg through these Duergar lives!" Why?

Could you exclusively only group outside LFMs? Yes, obviously. And many people do. But an MMO begins to die when it is played in a closed ecosystem. I enjoy seeing how different builds play. I relish the experience of running into someone who plays and respects the game as I do. As a game. To be enjoyed. Not a spreadsheet to tabulate gains as you grind, grind, grind. It saddens me that the virus has spread so thoroughly across the player base that running a new expansion, less than a week into its release, is difficult to do if you want to see the quests instead of racing for levers then sprinting off to the boss fight. I don't have an answer for how to change that. Maybe you can't.

I ALWAYS solo run new content to precisely avoid this. For many hours, I enjoy new content and the surprises it holds. Then I join LFM's and complete entire arcs in 45 minutes.

 

[Vua]

Can you actually be bothered to read second paragraph of OP post?

reading comments here I was not dissapointed in amount of gaslighting zergers spout.

NO, if you join LFM stating "no zerging" there is NO excuse to zerg, even if leader takes 1 hour to complete 5 minute quest.

YOU joined someone else's LFM, so follow their play style, if you don't want, why did you join "no zerg" LFM in first place? MAKE YOUR OWN "zerg rush" LFM.

You agree to stop using gaslighting when it doesn't apply, which is outside of a psychiatric setting, and I won't zerg in pugs any longer. Agreed?






I don't zerg in pugs unless that is the plan. But you need to stop using that term. Nobody here is being psychologically tortured.

 

[Primus]

While I agree with the OP, its always been a problem.
However
With some of the new changes the devs have implemented lately (last year or two) it is correctable.
*If( the devs wanted to fix it that is.

The same mechanic that they bestowed on hirelines, that if you get too far away from them, they poof and unsummon.
A similar code could be written and they could create a selectable option when you enter a quest, just like 'Public/Private' option.
Just attach that same hireling mechanic to group members that are not the party leader.
Group members that get too far away from the party leader trigger a individual visible countdown.
If you don't get back close to the party leader within the designated time, you are teleported out of the quest and to your bind point.

See? Easily fixable. Now to convince the devs..

 

[GrizzlyOso]

While I agree with the OP, its always been a problem.
However
With some of the new changes the devs have implemented lately (last year or two) it is correctable.
*If( the devs wanted to fix it that is.

The same mechanic that they bestowed on hirelines, that if you get too far away from them, they poof and unsummon.
A similar code could be written and they could create a selectable option when you enter a quest, just like 'Public/Private' option.
Just attach that same hireling mechanic to group members that are not the party leader.
Group members that get too far away from the party leader trigger a individual visible countdown.
If you don't get back close to the party leader within the designated time, you are teleported out of the quest and to your bind point.

See? Easily fixable. Now to convince the devs..

I don’t know if you’re joking but teleport back to bind point ? Hilarious trolling will ensue.

Teleport back to group like a soul stone ? I guess. Annoying and I wouldn’t join such a group but ok.

Love the chaos:
Group leader afks? Group leader dcs, new star member wings away and everyone is sent out of dungeon?
Same group leader reconnects and isn’t by group? Teleported out of dungeon
Quest mechanic splits up party? Teleported out of dungeon.
Can’t keep up on a Mario jump or jet - out of dungeon.

Great stuff.

 

[Sturmbb]

Some players cannot stop zerging. They simply can't help themselves. The new expansion is great. It really is. Underdark vibe evolution from Eveningstar to now is extraordinary, and the graphics team deserves mountains of credit for creating a gorgeous abyss. Years of speeding up the game, however, have made this expansion almost impossible to enjoy as a public grouping standard MMO experience.

I define in an LFM - not zerging. Within the group, I say slow down. I even say please. And still, multiple days now, I get players that race through the quest, hit objectives, do optionals, start boss fights without the whole group in the room/area. We have not seen these things yet! Stop zerging. Of course, when you point these things out, they act like you're the bad guy.

It has become a matter of etiquette that was lost somewhere in the endless TR cycle. Groups almost never used to race past the party leader. Now it is quite common. You should be moving at the pace of the party leader. If you don't like the pace, leave and start your own group. Instead, we have people who co-opt the group and run the quests how they want to run them. Should I dissolve the group then? That makes me look like the jerk. Inflexible. Draconian for wanting to see the boss fight.

Does the game incentivize zerging? It does. But there will always be an excuse that some players find, no matter what the game did. "I have to zerg up to level 36!" Why? "I have to zerg for more reaper points!" Why? "I have to zerg through these Duergar lives!" Why?

Could you exclusively only group outside LFMs? Yes, obviously. And many people do. But an MMO begins to die when it is played in a closed ecosystem. I enjoy seeing how different builds play. I relish the experience of running into someone who plays and respects the game as I do. As a game. To be enjoyed. Not a spreadsheet to tabulate gains as you grind, grind, grind. It saddens me that the virus has spread so thoroughly across the player base that running a new expansion, less than a week into its release, is difficult to do if you want to see the quests instead of racing for levers then sprinting off to the boss fight. I don't have an answer for how to change that. Maybe you can't.

Unfortunately i have come across this a few times. Now when exploring an expansion for the first time i will only run it with guildies. Pugs cannot be trusted.

In Defense of Zergers (who should not be joining a pug that states "no zerging") they are probably running a pot, which means for every second they are in a quest they are losing money.

I think there should be better ways of implementing pots than having a timer. Would it be better if the pot was based on quest completions.
ie a major pot that is has hour timer, give that same pot 5 quest completions. This may cut down on the zerging and encourage people to actually run the optionals (i think the recent expansions handled this much better by lettering optional chests drop mats etc, which makes them worth running).

 

[Drunken.dx]

You agree to stop using gaslighting when it doesn't apply, which is outside of a psychiatric setting, and I won't zerg in pugs any longer. Agreed?






I don't zerg in pugs unless that is the plan. But you need to stop using that term. Nobody here is being psychologically tortured.

I beg to disagree, since usual responses are that person who quite literary posted "no zerging" in LFM is at fault since "they go to slow" or some other nonsense reason.

FFS just read some of the responses OP got...

"what were you doing that they zerged?" as if OP did something to annoy person that didn't want to zerg and forced them to zerg...

that IS gaslighting, IE shifting blame on victim.

 

[Drunken.dx]

If only "no zerg" meant the same thing to everyone in your righteous rant.

If someone says "no zerg" and then stands around for 5 minutes buffing, and literally looks at every rock, and discusses lore for 15 minutes while playing the quest, I'm going to be pretty angry.

That's not "no zerg" - that is "no zerg, flower sniffing, exploring first time, role-playing, tour guide for new players, don't pass leader or they will have a control freak out".

If you say THAT ^ in the LFM - sure - take an hour and 5 minutes.

If person writing "no zerg" takes an hour, you still don't have right to zerg, drop from group, locking reaper quest will teach poster to specify next time they are taking their sweet time, zerging will bring to topics like this one.

also something OP tried, but zerger ignored: COMMUNICATION
If you see someone going slow, you type in party chat: "can we go faster" or "I'm on a pot".

Don't zerg like a spoiled child.

 

[Geezer]

Some players cannot stop zerging. They simply can't help themselves. The new expansion is great. It really is. Underdark vibe evolution from Eveningstar to now is extraordinary, and the graphics team deserves mountains of credit for creating a gorgeous abyss. Years of speeding up the game, however, have made this expansion almost impossible to enjoy as a public grouping standard MMO experience.

I define in an LFM - not zerging. Within the group, I say slow down. I even say please. And still, multiple days now, I get players that race through the quest, hit objectives, do optionals, start boss fights without the whole group in the room/area. We have not seen these things yet! Stop zerging. Of course, when you point these things out, they act like you're the bad guy.

It has become a matter of etiquette that was lost somewhere in the endless TR cycle. Groups almost never used to race past the party leader. Now it is quite common. You should be moving at the pace of the party leader. If you don't like the pace, leave and start your own group. Instead, we have people who co-opt the group and run the quests how they want to run them. Should I dissolve the group then? That makes me look like the jerk. Inflexible. Draconian for wanting to see the boss fight.

Does the game incentivize zerging? It does. But there will always be an excuse that some players find, no matter what the game did. "I have to zerg up to level 36!" Why? "I have to zerg for more reaper points!" Why? "I have to zerg through these Duergar lives!" Why?

Could you exclusively only group outside LFMs? Yes, obviously. And many people do. But an MMO begins to die when it is played in a closed ecosystem. I enjoy seeing how different builds play. I relish the experience of running into someone who plays and respects the game as I do. As a game. To be enjoyed. Not a spreadsheet to tabulate gains as you grind, grind, grind. It saddens me that the virus has spread so thoroughly across the player base that running a new expansion, less than a week into its release, is difficult to do if you want to see the quests instead of racing for levers then sprinting off to the boss fight. I don't have an answer for how to change that. Maybe you can't.

i agree with you, there is too much zerging going on here. You know, they have to run throught everything as fast as they can, get all the loot. with all the bonus's on it and after they do that, they can complain that theres nothing to do at cap. Fun WOW!

 

[Drunken.dx]

You know, they have to run throught everything as fast as they can, get all the loot. with all the bonus's on it and after they do that, they can complain that theres nothing to do at cap. Fun WOW!

I wish this was sarcasm...

but we see it regularly after some time passes between new loot release...

 

[Dogbreath68]

My squelch list is maxed at 50 partly because of this. They get 1 chance in my groups, if they **** that up then you're no longer welcome in any of my groups, and squelching them solves that problem for me. I like to group with adults, not spoiled ******** who think they run this game.

 

[mikarddo]

NO, if you join LFM stating "no zerging" there is NO excuse to zerg, even if leader takes 1 hour to complete 5 minute quest.

There is a major difference between not zerging and going full flowersniff though.

Running a quest at a normal pace killing everything as you go without constantly sprint boosting and using wings is not zerging.
Taking 1 hour to run a 5 min quest is not just "no zerging" and thus not within the reasonable framework of merely having posted "no zerg".
But there is obviously a middle ground to both and certainly people that do zerg even though the leader asks them not to which is certainly wrong to do.

 

[Jaspar]

Simple problem with a simple solution.

If/when they ignore the no zerging request in the LFM:

• 1st offense - point out the LFM description and ask them nicely to stop or find another group if they don't want to stop. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they didn't notice it when they joined.
• 2nd offense - boot them from the group and carry on.
• 3rd offense (i.e. when some of them invariably start sending you irate tells after being booted) - squelch them and carry on.

There's really no need to stress or otherwise devote more energy and time to players who can't/won't show some basic courtesy and follow simple instructions when they join a group.

This is all that is needed.

From Day 1 of the release people were running the new content on R10. Before they had the new gear. They clearly wont find older content challenging. If you want to go slow and smell the roses, these are not the people to group with.

I personally dont mind the speed of the group. But also, Im not running R10 new content...

 

[Kyrr]

Firstly, let me say that you should NEVER feel like the bad guy for insisting on running the group like you put in your LFM.

I think part of the problem is that some people simply doesn't read what's written in the LFM or at least skim it very lightly, (which is their prerogative I guess), but if so, the onus is on them to either adjust when it's pointed out, or apologize and leave the group, both of which is perfectly acceptable.

I've experienced this (not reading the LFM) quite a bit. Me and my buddy level on mid/high reaper strait from the get go, because we find it much more entertaining than zerging though quests, but we recognize that this is far from the norm. Initially I'd put in what quest we were doing and then write in the LFM the it was reaper [X] (whatever we were up to). People would join and constantly be surprised by the reaper level. To combat this I've stopped putting in what quest we're doing in the LFM and only put it in the text description, that way (you'd think) people would have to read the description to find out what we are doing and therefore also see the reaper level. And it DOES help, but I'd still say that about 1 in 6 who joins us is surprised by the reaper level xD.

(To the people who join, are surprised and then leave, let me just say that it's perfectly okay, I don't mean to shame anyone just because you might have skipped a bit quick over the description. And to the once who have been surprised, but still stayed and discovered how entertaining DDO actually can be. You're our kind of people and we love you all

Unfortunately, you aren't going to get people who obey all LFM's. I am an individual that respects the decision if you want no pikers, then i'll obey the LFM. People just don't like to listen, sorry to hear you are going through that mess.

 

[GrizzlyOso]

If person writing "no zerg" takes an hour, you still don't have right to zerg, drop from group, locking reaper quest will teach poster to specify next time they are taking their sweet time, zerging will bring to topics like this one.

also something OP tried, but zerger ignored: COMMUNICATION
If you see someone going slow, you type in party chat: "can we go faster" or "I'm on a pot".

Don't zerg like a spoiled child.

Yeah, I just close client after saying thank you. Not every “evil zerger” does “all the bad things” (locking reaper instances)

You think everyone is a boogeyman, when most of us are bending over backwards to accommodate others.

I play a hundred different ways, there is only one petulant group constantly posting here insisting people don’t play THEIR way.

 

[Vua]

I beg to disagree, since usual responses are that person who quite literary posted "no zerging" in LFM is at fault since "they go to slow" or some other nonsense reason.

FFS just read some of the responses OP got...

"what were you doing that they zerged?" as if OP did something to annoy person that didn't want to zerg and forced them to zerg...

that IS gaslighting, IE shifting blame on victim.

No it's not gaslighting. Gaslighting is a clinical term that has no business in every day interactions. It's not a one time event, it's a form of persistent psychological torture, not a comment on a gaming forum.

 

[Teh_Troll]

Stop being slow.

 

[Guntango]

A natural pace develops for everyone based on 3 things: player skill, build strength, and content knowledge.
Combine this with the low loot drop rates, best xp/min and lack of higher/rewarding difficulty settings, and you get an incentive structure that promotes *most* players in DDO to lean towards zerging R1. Its just how the game is designed.

I really don't understand this whole "zergers are bad people" mentality, its just the incentive structure SSG created to "not split up the player base" or something...

While I'd never join a "no zerging" lfm, you don't get to control what other people do in a video game, and its insane to think as much. If I post a "zerg" lfm and 90% of players that join basically do nothing and cant keep up... should I also get mad and make an angry forum post about all the inconsiderate players ruining my fun by being slow and not contributing?

Wouldn’t you just prefer if they stood at the entrance and then ddoor to escort them to their chest?

 

[SlipperyPete]

Kick from group while in quest needs to be reconsidered.

 

[Bjond]

Kick from group while in quest needs to be reconsidered.

This is the absolutely 100% mandatory feature required for quality grouping. It's literally impossible to ensure a great experience for your groupies without it.

The only folk that whinge about it are bad players that want to drag a group down -- ie. play their own way without regard for the group at all.

Sure, now and then you'll run into a bad leader. Add 'em to black-list and move on. Folk like that very quickly end up unable to group because no one wants them around.

 

[DBZ]

This is the absolutely 100% mandatory feature required for quality grouping. It's literally impossible to ensure a great experience for your groupies without it.

The only folk that whinge about it are bad players that want to drag a group down -- ie. play their own way without regard for the group at all.

Sure, now and then you'll run into a bad leader. Add 'em to black-list and move on. Folk like that very quickly end up unable to group because no one wants them around.

Other games like never winter have a boot function like that and trolling is real run to end get to chest and boot