The inability to stop zerging

[Bjond]

Other games like never winter have a boot function like that and trolling is real run to end get to chest and boot

Yes, it exists. I've never seen it become more than an ultra-rare nuisance.

I've run into it maybe 2~3 times in 30y with one being a guild that abused "vote to kick" in order to get unskilled guildies a win after abusing the community to get past hard spots.

You have a choice as a developer: support casual low-effort terrorism by random unknown pugs or support planned abuse by the known identified leader that you can choose to join or not.

There's one big upside to choosing leaders: it rewards and reinforces quality leadership -- the one customer support feature that scales fun for the entire game multiplicatively rather than additively.

 

[Frieling Slyhand]

Some players cannot stop zerging. They simply can't help themselves. The new expansion is great. It really is. Underdark vibe evolution from Eveningstar to now is extraordinary, and the graphics team deserves mountains of credit for creating a gorgeous abyss. Years of speeding up the game, however, have made this expansion almost impossible to enjoy as a public grouping standard MMO experience.

I define in an LFM - not zerging. Within the group, I say slow down. I even say please. And still, multiple days now, I get players that race through the quest, hit objectives, do optionals, start boss fights without the whole group in the room/area. We have not seen these things yet! Stop zerging. Of course, when you point these things out, they act like you're the bad guy.

It has become a matter of etiquette that was lost somewhere in the endless TR cycle. Groups almost never used to race past the party leader. Now it is quite common. You should be moving at the pace of the party leader. If you don't like the pace, leave and start your own group. Instead, we have people who co-opt the group and run the quests how they want to run them. Should I dissolve the group then? That makes me look like the jerk. Inflexible. Draconian for wanting to see the boss fight.

Does the game incentivize zerging? It does. But there will always be an excuse that some players find, no matter what the game did. "I have to zerg up to level 36!" Why? "I have to zerg for more reaper points!" Why? "I have to zerg through these Duergar lives!" Why?

Could you exclusively only group outside LFMs? Yes, obviously. And many people do. But an MMO begins to die when it is played in a closed ecosystem. I enjoy seeing how different builds play. I relish the experience of running into someone who plays and respects the game as I do. As a game. To be enjoyed. Not a spreadsheet to tabulate gains as you grind, grind, grind. It saddens me that the virus has spread so thoroughly across the player base that running a new expansion, less than a week into its release, is difficult to do if you want to see the quests instead of racing for levers then sprinting off to the boss fight. I don't have an answer for how to change that. Maybe you can't.

I did my first play through solo on hard do I could take my time and enjoy the flavor and do all the optionals.

 

[Solarpower]

There's been a kick function in WoW for as long as I remember. It's never been a problem, and that's with one of the most toxic communities in mmo land.

To be honest, I haven't played WoW in so long that I don't even remember if there was a kick function originally.
But I played and remember the times when Blizzard introduced the automatic group selection function. It was a celebration of vote-to-kick abuse.
Recruiting people into a group and throwing them all out right before the final boss in order to take your friends who were simply too lazy to go through the entire dungeon into the group was a common pastime for players.Blizzard spent a considerable amount of time polishing LFM and continually introducing new restrictions to eliminate as many possible abuses as possible.

 

[Hobgoblin]

i like big zergers and i cannot lie

you other raid leaders cant deny!

 

[Solarpower]

This wasn't the experience I had on any of the servers I played on, but I'll take your word for it.

Well, that's what happened.
Most of the WoW's forum posts where about those kicks.
It especially got worse in Zul'Aman (5-man version). A lot of people didn't know how and couldn't beat it's bosses. So, recruiting knowledgeable people to clear the path and then kicking them out of the group was a common practice. And, if I'm not mistaken, the mount would drop there too, which would also cause people to be kicked out of the group to prevent them from rolling it.
Considering that 5-man Zul'Aman is Cataclysm, and auto LFM appeared in Lich King, and the problem was still there, imagine how much time it took Blizzard to bring this system to some semblance of fair play and accustom all players to these rules (many did not want it and wrote tearful and angry posts because they could no longer kick people out of groups whenever they wanted).

 

[Justfungus]

The brutal punishment for zerging in old HCL was one of it's endearing charms.
Oh how I miss the dead roll call during play and the screaming in the forums and how
much money they got ripped off because the spent a ton of cash prepping
a toon to ... zerg ... right through the contents to quickly snag all the good rewards.
and said toon bit the big one at level 3.
Because they had forgotten how to play a level 3
ah.... the memories.

 

[SunTzu]

DDO is a running game, not a RPG anymore.

The problem is from "physical DPS is too high, so, mobs won't be a challenge anymore".

 

[drachenboy115]

My names Mommy, and I'm a zergaholic

 

[Buddha5440]

My names Mommy, and I'm a zergaholic

Hi Mommy!

 

[Viamel]

Hi my name is Viamel and I'm addicted to flower sniffing at extreme speeds

 

[Frantik]

Weird how DDO players pay attention to stats in a game whose original style was pen and paper.

Mmmm.... I played DnD as a teen. Really immersive, good DM, but the character creation forced you to consider the stats you rolled, what type of class(es) your character was good for, what your THAC0 was... RP and stats from the very beginning.

 

[Pano]

As a dedicated zerger, I only read the first paragraph, skipped the rest as optionals, and went straight to the conclusion
- I assume I should apologize.

Sorry.

 

[Pano]

Can't wait for usual excuses from zergers.

You might wanna put second paragraph in bold, because zergers like to claim you're at fault if you don't do that.

Zergers do not get to read more than a first paragraph anyways

 

[PaleFox]

Some players cannot stop zerging. They simply can't help themselves. The new expansion is great. It really is. Underdark vibe evolution from Eveningstar to now is extraordinary, and the graphics team deserves mountains of credit for creating a gorgeous abyss. Years of speeding up the game, however, have made this expansion almost impossible to enjoy as a public grouping standard MMO experience.

I define in an LFM - not zerging. Within the group, I say slow down. I even say please. And still, multiple days now, I get players that race through the quest, hit objectives, do optionals, start boss fights without the whole group in the room/area. We have not seen these things yet! Stop zerging. Of course, when you point these things out, they act like you're the bad guy.

It has become a matter of etiquette that was lost somewhere in the endless TR cycle. Groups almost never used to race past the party leader. Now it is quite common. You should be moving at the pace of the party leader. If you don't like the pace, leave and start your own group. Instead, we have people who co-opt the group and run the quests how they want to run them. Should I dissolve the group then? That makes me look like the jerk. Inflexible. Draconian for wanting to see the boss fight.

Does the game incentivize zerging? It does. But there will always be an excuse that some players find, no matter what the game did. "I have to zerg up to level 36!" Why? "I have to zerg for more reaper points!" Why? "I have to zerg through these Duergar lives!" Why?

Could you exclusively only group outside LFMs? Yes, obviously. And many people do. But an MMO begins to die when it is played in a closed ecosystem. I enjoy seeing how different builds play. I relish the experience of running into someone who plays and respects the game as I do. As a game. To be enjoyed. Not a spreadsheet to tabulate gains as you grind, grind, grind. It saddens me that the virus has spread so thoroughly across the player base that running a new expansion, less than a week into its release, is difficult to do if you want to see the quests instead of racing for levers then sprinting off to the boss fight. I don't have an answer for how to change that. Maybe you can't.

I have to say, zerging is partly in the game architecture of DDO (end even the tabletop version of DnD.) We have races and classes that are designed to behave in this way. The 3 main "culprits" are monks, bards and barbarians, throw Tabaxi on top and they'll leave the clonky dwarven paladin tank way behind.

I also have to say that, reflecting back on what you say there, that I am indoctrinated (is that the correct word?) in such a way to led the party lead actually lead. Hmn, not sure if the freedom loving biker nomad in me is all that happy with this, lol.

Also, the brain is an organ that likes the dopamine hits, reaching a completion point releases that chemical, and going faster means more hits.
I guess we all need to go into rehab to get rid of the addiction we have created for ourselves.

 

[TedSandyman]

I wonder if they could build some settable parameters in group creation. I am sure they wouldn't. But maybe a set timer that wouldn't award XP until it ended. Set the time approximately for a normal, flower sniffing run. Any zerger sees the timed icon in the group will immediately seek elsewhere for xp.

As for the zergers themselves, I got no problem with them. If I get in a zerger group, I zerg right along with them, splitting off where I think I can solo an objective, running past a group of mobs to get to the next one, but rarely intentionally causing a dungeon alert. Why cause a dungeon alert when you can kill them pretty instantly. I am generally a flower-sniffer when soloing, but blasting through a dungeon can be a real rush too for those of you who don't understand the zerg mentality. It isn't always about fast XP.

Now, why would someone join a no-zerg group and then zerg? If you are going to run start to end with no help, why not just solo the dungeon. That person can obviously solo the dungeon. That person doesn't need a group to get the fast XP. What would possibly cause that person to take the time to join a group and then run to the end against the leaders wishes?

The obvious answer is the person is showing off. It is the look-at-me mentality that has taken over the world. They are an insecure little attention w**** who just needs people to see how great they are. In a zerg group, they don't stand out. Solo, no one can see how they zerg. So they join the non-zerg group thinking everyone will appreciate how truely awesome they are, even as they are getting hated.

Now it could possibly be that the are not able to keep up with a normal zerg group. They want to zerg, but they are always pathetically behind and cant keep up. So they join he group knowing they will be first. But the reason for joining a zerg group is still the same. Look-at-me.

Again, I am NOT talking about zerging in general or parties that zerg. I am ONLY talking about a person who would join a no-zerg group then zerg.

 

[Gimp]

OP just recall back to town and kick the zerger from your group. No need to apologize...they are the offender. You stated Not Zerging..and asked them to slow down. If they cant follow simple directions then KICK them the F out of the group...add them to your DNR list and replace them with another pugger who can read and follow directions.

Its your group. Not theirs.

Ill go fast when im doing a group (not as fast as some but a lot faster than others). When in anothers group it is correct to let the leader set the pace and lead. If you dont want to follow the leader than you can NOT JOIN.

Just like you dont enter a quest until the leader enters and sets difficulty. It is not your place if you dont have the star. You are welcome to go start you own group...but taking over anothers to run your way.....is rude and not acceptable (unless requested by the star).

Life is too short to deal with the dim witted who cannot or will not comply with social norms. Lots of great players in the game...and many of the best will happily slow down and comply with the leaders reasonable requests. Those who dont can go play some place else.

 

[Gimp]

I feel your pain

There are levels of zerg though.

For some players zerging means you skip past huge numbers of mobs going into yellow, orange or even red alert - so as long as you kill all the most you are not zerging so you can split up, skip optional etc without zerging and certainly run past the group leader

For you it means alot more. So your definition of zerg might not be what others hold to possibly causing confusion.

Doesnt change the fact that you are ignoring the play style of the leader. Go make your own group....because he should kick you from party....or reform without those who simply ignore the leader and play as they wish. Its fine for one to zerg and play as they wish...but either do it in YOUR group or solo. Invading an LFM as a pug is not the place to do such things. There is simply no defense for going into another persons group and taking over. Not your place. And i will kick the ever living stuffing out of the group. I wont do that when i join others. Its called manners...many would do well to learn some.

 

[mikarddo]

Doesnt change the fact that you are ignoring the play style of the leader. Go make your own group....because he should kick you from party....or reform without those who simply ignore the leader and play as they wish. Its fine for one to zerg and play as they wish...but either do it in YOUR group or solo. Invading an LFM as a pug is not the place to do such things. There is simply no defense for going into another persons group and taking over. Not your place. And i will kick the ever living stuffing out of the group. I wont do that when i join others. Its called manners...many would do well to learn some.

Oh, no worries. I most often am the group leader but when not I try to play by the tone the leader sets and will leave in good order if I am not having fun with it

That does not change what I wrote being a valid point though

Also, kicking someone from a group running a saga that connects through a wilderness is not so easy. Getting everyone else to drop and reform is no sure thing.

 

[Mofus]

Best bet is to buy the ultimate expansion packs, collect the hirelings, buff them up and run solo with augment summoning augment crystal or feat. (If zergers are a problem that is.) I do this often myself, if I dont want to join or lead pugs. And yes, you can even do low skull reaper this way.

 

[Drunken.dx]

there is only one petulant group constantly posting here insisting people don’t play THEIR way.

agreed, zergers regularly ignore others in group to zerg