the issue is, people dont wait for the group to fill before starting the quest

[magaiti]

Why do people keep calling that game "Neverwinter Online"?
It's name is Neverwinter. Developed by Cryptic Studios and published by Perfect World Entertainment.
"Online" is never to be found in any official information about the game that I could find.
Some people even go as far as calling it "NWN Online", which it is not and never was (part of the NWN series).

 

[RayRay Ramone]

This game discourages PUGs. I don't think that is intentional.

I would argue otherwise. When you make every class capable of dps, healing, cc, etc you are making it so every class can solo every dungeon, thus killing off any incentive for partying with other people. Now, you could argue that making every class capable of that was a mistake, that they didn't see that coming. But you can't argue that after having seen the consequences of their actions they haven't rolled any of it back. In fact, they've doubled down and made it increasingly obvious that they want to make all classes all things to all people. So *maybe* it was unintentional in the beginning, but by this point it sure as heck is intentional.

 

[Longsword]

Everybody is impatient and wants to zerg.
Proof: I put up LFMs stating "no zerg sperging"(lol?) and no one joins. I put up an LFM on a different day and don't put anything, and people join.

Call it selection bias or whatever but this happens consistently. So what I do now is, if i wanna be carried as a weak as wet toilet paper first lifer (which I hate btw, but im sure the reaper 5000 crew hate it more when I ride the soulstone express) I join r1's. If I wanna take my time I either dont put up LFM's or put up the no zerging thing or put up something BELOW r1 (hard/elite).

Hard take: everyone zergs/impatient and only wanna run r1.
I rarely see new people or people that are first lifers or learning the game like me doing LFMs and they rarely if never join mine (even when I don't put other info in the LFM).

Probably unpopular af opinion but I wish a NEW server opened, so everyone can start off fresh. I dont think this is feasible because so many people have items and reaper points/PLs they dont want to lose, so it will end up just being new people (first lifers) joining the new server any way.

So make it a (first lifer only) server. Probably never gonna happen, and I get it. It's basically leagues at that point, and being completely honest when I, at 220hp at level 14ish join with other 14s with 1400 hp - in an R1 do definitely feel very out of my league. The current meta is not new user friendly at all, more like oppressive than anything.

I kinda feel like the game got too easy for people with lots of PLs and tomes/reaper points what-have-you and the head scratcher is it feels like current non-reaper content got tuned to be more difficult for reaper/PL people, but where does this leave newcomers like myself or people learning the game?

What I do is try to run hard or reaper ELITE ONE LEVEL above mine or AT LEVEL and some quests feel extremely hard in that endeavor and if anything, all quests BELOW reaper should be cut in half in difficulty. Leave the XP as it is, but tone the diff way down. Reason being, no one runs hard/elite like hardly ever. It wouldnt impact PL/reaper runners at all as far as I can see, and if anything it would help newcomers. Worried about people farming favor? Then lower the favor rewards by half. But only do it for norm/hard/elite quests. Or let people run dungeons without a quest (walkup/red door) with lowered ZERO favor, but half the diff just so they can level and progress.

Could just be a bad build im running or I could just be bad at the game, and both might be right - but in order to get good and learn the game you have to progress, but to be honest lag in fights/boss fights doesnt help. Not saying lag is 100% the problem but it does contribute to the frustration sometimes. Especially when you are already having a hard time with a quest, trying to go slow, kill every mob, get every single trap, and then when you get to the end and you've invested over an hour into the quest and die any way???????? (IM LOOKIN AT YOU BLACK AND BLUE!!!)

Like I said its oppressive and not very new player friendly.

This is why I only play with a friend now. No LFM's. People would join, and ruin the quest by zerging past us. The entire point of playing is to have fun. There is no fun if there is no challenge. When things get too easy, I simply raise the setting.

 

[magaiti]

Different people have different preferences. Some want to play solo, some enjoy grouping even if self-sufficient.
By forcing grouping you'd just make game less enjoyable to soloists. Not good for business you know.

 

[Vollo_dash]

I often have the star, I can see both sides to this discussion. Those who post, open it up for anyone to join but doesn't wait for people to join to start. Then those who fill the group up and then starts the quest. I actually do both, I can not wait 10 or more mins to fill a group to start to play. sitting idle drives me crazy. Unless its swapping gear etc. In the end... If you join a Lfm and its showing minutes in quest. That is your choice to do so. Me if I join its easy mode... Easy xp cause there's likely nothing to do but run and catch up to get end loot.

 

[Seldarin]

Why do people keep calling that game "Neverwinter Online"?
It's name is Neverwinter. Developed by Cryptic Studios and published by Perfect World Entertainment.
"Online" is never to be found in any official information about the game that I could find.
Some people even go as far as calling it "NWN Online", which it is not and never was (part of the NWN series).

They probably reference it like that to distinguish it from Neverwinter Nights. One was a standalone game from 2002, as opposed to the Online Multiplayer game from 2013. Technically they arent wrong because it is online, ergo Neverwinter Online, i think you are nitpicking a bit, must be a slow day at the office.

 

[Justfungus]

There is a reason SSG made just about every class a 'do everything' class.
It is solo players.
If solo players could not complete most dungeons solo, they would quit.
SSG can't afford to lose more players.
so that is why fighters can self heal etc, etc.
Neverwinter classes are pretty much the same way.

 

[RayRay Ramone]

There is a reason SSG made just about every class a 'do everything' class.
It is solo players.
If solo players could not complete most dungeons solo, they would quit.
SSG can't afford to lose more players.
so that is why fighters can self heal etc, etc.
Neverwinter classes are pretty much the same way.

^This

I don't pay attention to what SSG says, I pay attention to what they do. And what they have done is disincentivized partying.

 

[minamber]

There is a reason SSG made just about every class a 'do everything' class.
It is solo players.
If solo players could not complete most dungeons solo, they would quit.
SSG can't afford to lose more players.
so that is why fighters can self heal etc, etc.
Neverwinter classes are pretty much the same way.

It's not just solo players who would have quit. The fact is that before the recent server merge, unless you had a static group or a large guild that frequently groups together, you had to solo most of the time because the LFM panel was basically empty except for the most popular content like Sharn.
If people had to wait for a full group like they did back in 2010, almost nobody could play, so soloability for every class was necessary.

It's better now with more people on all the time, but there's no putting the genie back in the bottle.

 

[Qrvar]

This game discourages PUGs. I don't think that is intentional.
For years SSG has made an effort to never do what other mmo's do ... even if they have a better system.
This game's often bizarre game mechanics is the result 'gotta be different' mentality.
The best system for creating PUGs 'Pick up Groups' that I have seen is used by NWO, Neverwinter Online
Basically, you sign up for an available dungeon based on your level and when enough players
have signed up for that one, it teleports everyone to the beginning of the dungeon.
Quick, clean everyone ready to go.
Doubt DDO will ever have that ..... BECAUSE
'someone else does it.'

More like, because DDO has such diverse content and so many variables around who owns (or doesn't own) what, with population numbers at barely 1000 per server, groups would never fill. It would be nice to have something like that for raids, though, then again, they generally fill well enough anyway.

Also, NWO is such a cringe game at this point, and it hardly invented the system, as many other MMOs (e.g. FFXIV) have used it before.

 

[Oliphant]

Most people will wait for a long stretch to let raids fill or accommodate someone lagging and also will start quests before the party is fully because they are pro-social and can read the room. Some people are not as pro-social or cannot the read the room.

 

[Lotoc]

There is a reason SSG made just about every class a 'do everything' class.
It is solo players.
If solo players could not complete most dungeons solo, they would quit.
SSG can't afford to lose more players.
so that is why fighters can self heal etc, etc.
Neverwinter classes are pretty much the same way.

There isn't a realistic alternative to doing dungeons for leveling in DDO unlike other MMOs where their quests are stuff like fetch 20 boar livers on a shared overworld map (and most boars don't have livers)
If you couldn't complete quests solo then the game would just die entirely as nobody would actually be able to level up unless there was a group actively going in their level range at all times.

 

[Tyrande]

There isn't a realistic alternative to doing dungeons for leveling in DDO unlike other MMOs where their quests are stuff like fetch 20 boar livers on a shared overworld map (and most boars don't have livers)
If you couldn't complete quests solo then the game would just die entirely as nobody would actually be able to level up unless there was a group actively going in their level range at all times.

But then back to the fighter could heal, CC, tank, do everything scenario: Why would anyone play support classes or CC classes specifically then if fighter could be best DPS, best tank, best CC everything and also heal, since fighter has the most tanking (meaning PRR, AC, MRR, heavy armor) and HP capability also, huh? Mind you, half of all DDO classes for-sale are casters...

IMHO, the Neverwinter system for dungeons is a good system and has never failed me as a player.
While waiting, you could do other things. Maybe DDO can distinguish between solo-able dungeons and not solo-able dungeons like what they did in the very early heroic levels in the harbor. There's also the solo, normal, hard and elite... may be the not all-powerful fighter can easily solo those without all the healing and CC capabilities as well?

i.e. make anything reaper 4 or above use the Neverwinter System; and oh yeah, remove "Second Wind" and "Visage of Terror" IKs.

 

[glass_jaws]

I guess impatience is rampant right now....

It's not impatience. You can never guarantee an LFM will fill, so you expect them to just wait indefinitely? People have limited playtimes, and everyone's time is valuable. I get you want to play a certain way, but sounds like you need to put up your own LFMs. Honestly most of the time LFMs are just there to help others as generally unless you are running high difficulty everything is soloable.

 

[Lotoc]

But then back to the fighter could heal, CC, tank, do everything scenario: Why would anyone play support classes or CC classes specifically then if fighter could be best DPS, best tank, best CC everything and also heal, since fighter has the most tanking (meaning PRR, AC, MRR, heavy armor) and HP capability also, huh? Mind you, half of all DDO classes for-sale are casters...

IMHO, the Neverwinter system for dungeons is a good system and has never failed me as a player.
While waiting, you could do other things. Maybe DDO can distinguish between solo-able dungeons and not solo-able dungeons like what they did in the very early heroic levels in the harbor. There's also the solo, normal, hard and elite... may be the not all-powerful fighter can easily solo those without all the healing and CC capabilities as well?

i.e. make anything reaper 4 or above use the Neverwinter System; and oh yeah, remove "Second Wind" and "Visage of Terror" IKs.

But the best dps currently is shuriken monk, and Kensei has higher dps than Dragonlord which is clearly what you're trying to complain about if you're bringing up CC.
the best tank depends largely on the content, but for the puposes of actually surviving raid boss aggro, again it isn't dragonlord.
Best CC will always come down to casters simply because they are given more tools and lower cooldowns, as much as you may want to cry about dragonlord's roar it's a 6 second CC on a 14 second cooldown while for example Mass Hold Monster is 162 seconds on a 6/3.5 second cooldown.

And healing? A fighter's self healing is limited to a charge based system on second wind, if you're going to bring up the self heal at level 26 in fury of the wild on using rage or primal scream that's accessible to everyone and funnily enough the Rage effects and heal on rage are specifically non functional for dragonlords using the strength trance or any fighter playing as a tank because you can not rage in stalwart defender stance or with Might In Order and on top of that self healing is negligibly effective in combat on reaper difficulties, it is always ideal to be healed by someone else regardless of what you are playing.
As an aside the highest AC requires multiclassing, it's not something specific to fighter and quite feasibly the highest AC possible actually is incompatible with heavy armor/tower shields due to the low MDB.

But you're just going to ignore any points contrary to your constant tirade about a fotm archetype - that isn't even nearly as flavor of the month as inquisitive builds.

 

[magaiti]

Best CC will always come down to casters simply because they are given more tools and lower cooldowns, as much as you may want to cry about dragonlord's roar it's a 6 second CC on a 14 second cooldown while for example Mass Hold Monster is 162 seconds on a 6/3.5 second cooldown.

Roar, Stunning Blow, Improved Trip + Be the Whirlwind, Sap, Dire Charge, and cooldowns on Roar/Trip/Stunning Blow are reduced by 33%

 

[Qrvar]

It's not impatience. You can never guarantee an LFM will fill, so you expect them to just wait indefinitely? People have limited playtimes, and everyone's time is valuable.

This. If I want to run something specific, I'll wait around 5 min, if it's not filled, I'll either join an existing LFM or log off to play something else.

There is nothing to do in DDO while you wait for the group to fill.

 

[Wizard]

This. If I want to run something specific, I'll wait around 5 min, if it's not filled, I'll either join an existing LFM or log off to play something else.

There is nothing to do in DDO while you wait for the group to fill.

At cap, you can run wilderness rares to farm or some quick chests for mats like in IoD. But during leveling there is nothing to do (solo slayers too low xp, rares not worth it) so just start the quest solo with LFM up.

Most boring is waiting for raids to fill, can't enter quests or slayer zones in a raid group.

 

[Qrvar]

Most boring is waiting for raids to fill, can't enter quests or slayer zones in a raid group.

I usually Alt+Tab to watch a show on Netflix or something, yea.

 

[Lotoc]

Roar, Stunning Blow, Improved Trip + Be the Whirlwind, Sap, Dire Charge, and cooldowns on Roar/Trip/Stunning Blow are reduced by 33%

I accounted for that reduction on roar
Stunning blow is single target and longer cooldown than duration, costs a feat, if you're using a twohanded weapon so you get strikethrough your dps is garbage, twohanded dps is basically lower than casters.
Improved Trip Be the whirlwind NEVER WORKS because the DC on secondary targets is bugged.
Nobody actually uses dire charge anymore, and that has a lower duration than cooldown.
~None of those are fighter specific~

and casters don't only get mass hold that was just an example.
All casters can get Burst of Glacial Wrath which is unironically just better than roar in terms of cooldown and reliability, they get pretty much permanent Freeze (with no actual save) on Moon Lance.
I didn't bring up alchemist's flesh to gold or freeze, I didn't bring up otto's sphere of dancing, fascinate, Evard's black tentacles, Grasping Thorns.