The Lack of Content and Gear in Mid-Epics

Dearest devs, while I'm sure it's already set, I beg that you please set Myth Drannor to be a mid epics pack and legendary rather than heroic and legendary. As the title suggests, there is a severe lack of questing in the mid epics, namely level 25 and 26 has some of the fewest quests to run, being in the single digits for each of those levels; second only to 28 and 29 that, combined, are still in the single digits, but that is near cap so by then people migrate to legendary quests so its no issue. And on top of that, there is a mind boggling amount of gear and gear sets, most of which of appropriate power levels, through all of heroics, and then at 20 its dead until you get gear at 29 from ravenloft/sharn/feywild; all gear between 21 and 29 is pretty much useless as the effects haven't been scaled to match the current power scaling, and there's not many set bonuses like there are for the rest of the level ranges to replace what you would give up to get higher level gear. The most ideal solution to this is to have an expansion set in this level range as the perfect bridge between heroics and legendary, and since Myth Drannor is set in forgotten realms, depending on the story line, it would be perfect to set right after the demon web chain to move to a new story in forgotten realms. And if it is already too late to do that for this expansion, please put a mini expansion in there because imo mid epics is one of the worst level ranges to level.
 
Upvote 2

misterski

Well-known member
They can't do epic/legendary, yet. On the old forums a dev explained that legendary quests are epic quests "underneath the hood" which is why the whole heroic/legendary thing exists and epic/legendary does not. Maybe that will change one day, who knows.
 

Purr

Well-known member
Dearest devs, while I'm sure it's already set, I beg that you please set Myth Drannor to be a mid epics pack and legendary rather than heroic and legendary. As the title suggests, there is a severe lack of questing in the mid epics, namely level 25 and 26 has some of the fewest quests to run, being in the single digits for each of those levels; second only to 28 and 29 that, combined, are still in the single digits, but that is near cap so by then people migrate to legendary quests so its no issue. And on top of that, there is a mind boggling amount of gear and gear sets, most of which of appropriate power levels, through all of heroics, and then at 20 its dead until you get gear at 29 from ravenloft/sharn/feywild; all gear between 21 and 29 is pretty much useless as the effects haven't been scaled to match the current power scaling, and there's not many set bonuses like there are for the rest of the level ranges to replace what you would give up to get higher level gear. The most ideal solution to this is to have an expansion set in this level range as the perfect bridge between heroics and legendary, and since Myth Drannor is set in forgotten realms, depending on the story line, it would be perfect to set right after the demon web chain to move to a new story in forgotten realms. And if it is already too late to do that for this expansion, please put a mini expansion in there because imo mid epics is one of the worst level ranges to level.
With slayers and the ability to basically do any quest from level 20 to 26ish at level 20, I don't think quest level matters as much for epic as it does for heroic. For example, level 20's regularly do level 25 or 26 quests on R1 the way that level 12's don't regularly do level 17s or 18s on R1.

I really like the idea of a level 13 saga to do along side GH instead of lordsmarch.
 

Blaster

Well-known member
In her most recent appearance on Fridays at Four in January, DDO Producer Tolero hinted that something might be coming to mid-epics this year. My guess is possibly a content pack revamp similar to what they did with Delera's and Catacombs.

Looking at the roadmap for 2024 in the Producer's Letter, we are due two non-expansion content packs, one in Q3 and one in Q4, either of which (or both) could be a content revamp. (The Q2 content pack listed ended up being Slice of Life.)

You can find the VoD for Tolero's appearance on Fridays at Four here.

You can find the 2024 Producer's Letter and roadmap here.
 

ChaoticDrivel

Well-known member
I too would like Epic levels to get some love. They have gotten too stale.

But I would not want Myth Drannor to be unavailable in Heroic levels, as you suggest. That would be even more of a travesty imo, as 1-20 is the most enjoyable part of the game to me.

They have heard our pleas regarding Epic levels for years. Myth Drannor would have been a perfect opportunity to release an Epic-focused pack, like MOTU (which is still among the best content they ever released).

It's too late now though. They've already decided what the levels are going to be. And there's close to zero chance they will budge.

At least we can lament together once more, when they do the same thing for the next expansion, and the ones after that.
 

Blerkington

Well-known member
I'd love to see more to do in the game for levels 20+ in general.

For me the heroic levels have become pretty boring from so much repetition getting past lives in that part of the game. Plus the lack of build and gear choices early on mean it feels like the game doesn't come alive until later levels.

But we keep getting more and more past lives shovelled out for the heroic part of the game with comparatively little added for epic levels. Would be really great to see the massive imbalance between the two rectified.
 
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dur

title pending
Be nice if they made Epic Fens Wilderness X)

IMO it's the 23 - 32 gap (OH! lol unless you bought vecna?)
 

Quartis

Member
Instead of adding more content they could reduce the amount of xp needed to level from 20 to 30. Although I feel the same about legendary levels need far to much xp but okay new max level limit should not be reached to fast.

There are some good epic items in 26 but imo they have the problem that it hardly is worth to get them and to keep them, allready need so much inventory/bank slots for all that stuff.
At 29/30 there is Legend equip. Epic Items only become a little bit stronger. And new stuff would be in between. One can see that by epic crafting which has lvl 20 and lvl 30 versions.
Example: Ring of Elemental Essence
lvl 4 -> +55 SpellPower
Lvl 20 -> 111 SpellPower & 192 SpellPoints
Lvl 30 -> 146 spellpower & 277 SpellPoints

Example Elder's Cap
lvl 7: 5 INT, 10 Concen
lvl 20: 9 Int, 4 enchant, 17 Concen 8 Spell Saves
lvl 30: 13 Int, 6 enchant, 20 Concen 11 Spell Saves
 
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Mornyngstar

Well-known member
This was my suggestion a few weeks ago posted in the thread:
Why Restless Isles Should be Made Epic/Legendary

The relevant section is:
What Should be Added/Changed?
For items I would like to see the BTCoE be changed to BTA on equip/acquire (Whichever is easiest to implement). New items should be added to Hiding in Plain Sight and keeping with the flavor of the pack they should drop in specific chests. There should be added items to the rare chests in the wilderness also. Not a guaranteed drop but a chance of dropping. The Quests should be upgraded to Epic in the level range of 25 for the quests, 26 for the pre-raid and 27 for the raid. (This was chosen because the 20-22 range has lots of items already along with quests and raids, the 25-27 range is very light currently). The raid (both heroic and epic) should have their own raid runes for dropping (Titan Runes). As a note, new items added to the quest pack need not be “perfect” in style. This location was an armory/vault of older items so keeping with that having off brand items would fit right in.
 

FuzzyDuck81

Well-known member
In her most recent appearance on Fridays at Four in January, DDO Producer Tolero hinted that something might be coming to mid-epics this year. My guess is possibly a content pack revamp similar to what they did with Delera's and Catacombs.
I'm hoping for a Threnal revamp in the way they handled those, the escort mechanics and janky flagging mean i rarely ever run them though the quest story and setting is pretty fun & there's some nice loot.
 

Ying

5000+ hours played
Sharn or Vecna 3pc + Borderlands gear is a great setup to get to level 30 doing R1 difficulty, no matter what your build is.
In her most recent appearance on Fridays at Four in January, DDO Producer Tolero hinted that something might be coming to mid-epics this year. My guess is possibly a content pack revamp similar to what they did with Delera's and Catacombs.
The Delera's and Catacombs revamp was an itemization failure, with Epic Voice of the Master being the sole exception.
 

Marshal_Lannes

Well-known member
The Ruins of Threnal seem to be a natural fit for being placed mid-epics. Like Delera's, it has an iconic item with the Mantle of the Worldshaper. Also like Catacombs and Delera's, it has a group of named items already created that could be made epic. Hopefully they will have more utility than the previous packs. Threnal has a robust area with trainers and a small wilderness lending itself to being developed. If something smaller was needed, Shan To Kar would fit the bill.
 

Visik

Well-known member
Tbh, I don't agree with your underlying premise that there isn't enough content in mid-epics. Are you actually running quests at level? Because I usually try to get 2-4 levels over the content as quickly as possible, so when I'm running L24 quests, I'm already L28 more often than not. And there's more than enough content to get from 28-30 in the quests from L25 up.

The real hole, at least in my experience, is in LOW epics: L20-23. It's hard to get that 2-4 levels over by running only the Epic quests, even if you run all of them. One either has to continue to run Heroic quests (and stop running Reaper for a bit) or one has to do some slayers as well, to gain a level or two. (Or, ofc, join groups running higher-level content, but that really does just push the problem off a bit.)
 
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Mornyngstar

Well-known member
The Ruins of Threnal seem to be a natural fit for being placed mid-epics. Like Delera's, it has an iconic item with the Mantle of the Worldshaper. Also like Catacombs and Delera's, it has a group of named items already created that could be made epic. Hopefully they will have more utility than the previous packs. Threnal has a robust area with trainers and a small wilderness lending itself to being developed. If something smaller was needed, Shan To Kar would fit the bill.

Looking at the stats for Quests by Level The range of 24 (16 quests) to 29 (4 quests) would be ideal for the Threnal revamp. I would also suggest that the end fight The Gate Chamber could be revamped into a Mid-Epic Raid. This would mean redoing the flagging mechanics etc. They could also toss in a Legendary version of the raid if they go that direction without also making the quests legendary. I would like to see the Walk-up Quests be made Epic also and toss in a couple of Favor Point too. Possibly also having the Threnal Blade encounter made epicable also and/or Legendary (Who here doesn't want to fight Legendary Beholders?).

Tbh, I don't agree with your underlying premise that there isn't enough content in mid-epics. Are you actually running quests at level? Because I usually try to get 2-4 levels over the content as quickly as possible, so when I'm running L24 quests, I'm already L28 more often than not. And there's more than enough content to get from 28-30 in the quests from L25 up.

The real hole, at least in my experience, is in LOW epics: L20-23. It's hard to get that 2-4 levels over by running only the Epic quests, even if you run all of them. One either has to continue to run Heroic quests (and stop running Reaper for a bit) or one has to do some slayers as well, to gain a level or two. (Or, ofc, join groups running higher-level content, but that really does just push the problem off a bit.)

You do not have to stop running Reaper when you hit lv 20 for heroic quests. When Vecna came out the heroic limit was removed so you can run even Twilight Vale on Reaper at lv 20 (Doesn't apply to Hardcore, some mechanics are locked in from previous setups). I do this for my alt toons since they are first lifers and level too darn quick. I typically do R4 and those quests are worth 1k Rxp each. I also hit everything for quests on my alts, (work in progress), to get their +8 Tome.
 

Ying

5000+ hours played
Epic VoM is excellent, but competes with fully customizable Epic GoMF, and usual lose competition.
EVoM competing with other options fine. The other items in Epic Delera's/Catacombs come at weird minimum levels and dont fill in meaningful gear gaps so there's no reason to incorporate it during epic leveling.
 

Dunspartacus

Well-known member
Threnal, sorrowdusk, harbingers/reign of madness, even inspired quarter are all cool quest lines that I would love to see get an epic version. That said most of them would need some level of polish to make them less clunky in certain parts, but feels a shame to let still fun content kinda rot in a corner, not to mention letting epic leveling get stale.
 
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