The monk changes are nice, but if you want to shift the meta . . .

[Vox]

Meh. A pretty small nerf would do it tbh. Nerfing "the bejeesus" out of them would be excessive. Throwers, monks, shurimonks (when fixed...?), razorclaws, twf builds, swf builds are all doing well. We don't need inquisitors to be deleted. Perhaps a slight trimming could do.

Except SSG does not do that.

Monks got murdered, and despite 10ish pages of feedback and silence from the rockstars the changes went through less & less people played them. At least they've got a bit of power back now.

Shiradi was fantastic for casters, it got murdered, and has never been used by casters since.

Nukers were fantastic fun until bright sparks made them very sad to play in high reaper, useless for push raids, and pushed the caster strikes 6 ft into the dirt. So many players moved to melee & ranged.

And so on.

We can only surmise that the people at SSG are only interested in playing melee and inquisitive/artificer. How else can melee get a 60k+ bleed proc aoe and ranged get spamable aoe & additional crit damage with no penalty?

All we can do as players is continue to ride the ludicrously OP SSG spec setups and take the easy win, or get imcreasingly pissed off at things we can't control.

 

[Kyrr]

Except SSG does not do that.

Monks got murdered, and despite 10ish pages of feedback and silence from the rockstars the changes went through less & less people played them. At least they've got a bit of power back now.

Shiradi was fantastic for casters, it got murdered, and has never been used by casters since.

Nukers were fantastic fun until bright sparks made them very sad to play in high reaper, useless for push raids, and pushed the caster strikes 6 ft into the dirt. So many players moved to melee & ranged.

And so on.

We can only surmise that the people at SSG are only interested in playing melee and inquisitive/artificer. How else can melee get a 60k+ bleed proc aoe and ranged get spamable aoe & additional crit damage with no penalty?

All we can do as players is continue to ride the ludicrously OP SSG spec setups and take the easy win, or get imcreasingly pissed off at things we can't control.

I completely disagree that monks got murdered. I don't think they are the best thing in the game, but they aren't the worst-they just removed the specialty that monks had.

My monk is far stronger now than it used to be, the support kit game is much weaker.

My melee power is 406 while in reaper with a gold roll potion and my damage went up by roughly 1.5x.

 

[LurkingVeteran]

I completely disagree that monks got murdered. I don't think they are the best thing in the game, but they aren't the worst-they just removed the specialty that monks had.

My monk is far stronger now than it used to be, the support kit game is much weaker.

My melee power is 406 while in reaper with a gold roll potion and my damage went up by roughly 1.5x.

Pretty sure that the previous poster referred to the monk nerfs a few years ago.

 

[Kyrr]

Pretty sure that the previous poster referred to the monk nerfs a few years ago.

Thank you for the correction. I skimmed over the "people playing less & less of them," which indicates a previous timeline.

 

[DBZ]

And when it hits those dragonlords it will be glorious

After they hammer ranged only 1 thing left

 

[The Narc2]

And when it hits those dragonlords it will be glorious

After they hammer ranged only 1 thing left

Yes only one thing that needs it more than any! All Melee

 

[Teh_Troll]

And when it hits those dragonlords it will be glorious

After they hammer ranged only 1 thing left

 

[5 Other People]

One of the difficult things about players relationship with DDO is some folks tend to favor one build type and are resistant to change.

If your build type got hammered you'll rage about nerfs. If other builds got buffed making your build feel hammered in comparison, then the player may want other builds to be nerfed. Keep in mind that monsters got a huge HP buff in MD, so if they balanced characters using nerfs the game would become much longer.

The game is a re-incarnation engine and strategically developers want to move folks off of one build and onto another b/c that's a way they make money. In this regard they want you to be somewhat annoyed about your old build, in hopes you move onto something else.

My point being, the system we rail against can't be changed to much...even if balance is reached for some time, it can't stay balanced. At best developers must choose which segment of their demographic pool they want to energize with their next release and hope it works.

 

[Teh_Troll]

One of the difficult things about players relationship with DDO is some folks tend to favor one build type and are resistant to change.

If your build type got hammered you'll rage about nerfs. If other builds got buffed making your build feel hammered in comparison, then the player may want other builds to be nerfed. Keep in mind that monsters got a huge HP buff in MD, so if they balanced characters using nerfs the game would become much longer.

The game is a re-incarnation engine and strategically developers want to move folks off of one build and onto another b/c that's a way they make money. In this regard they want you to be somewhat annoyed about your old build, in hopes you move onto something else.

My point being, the system we rail against can't be changed to much...even if balance is reached for some time, it can't stay balanced. At best developers must choose which segment of their demographic pool they want to energize with their next release and hope it works.

Change smange. Crossbows being this powerful is insanely stupid and bad game design.

ANYTHING being that much better than EVERYTHING else needs to be hammered hard. Throw in shifters to if they are over-performing also.

Nerf 'em all.

 

[5 Other People]

Crossbows being this powerful is insanely stupid and bad game design.

If anything this thread is encouraging me to roll an inquisitive.

How strong are we talking? I had an artificer that I adored shortly after MD came out, but before they re-arranged the timing & number of shots from Battle Engineer (the glory days of artificer )...the build hit harder after the changes, but was so slow and painful for me to play. Are folks enjoying the build you want nerfed or is it simply hitting harder than other builds? B/C if the build is strong, but dull, then that is balance to me....it ran me off the build anyway.

 

[lilgeek]

. . . you need to nerf the beejesus out of Crossbows.

In typical SSG cadence we're going on 6+ months with something brokenly over-performing. Time to do it, nerf them from orbit.

No. Repeating crossbows just got nerfed as a sacrifice to combat lag. We are still suffering from a 3+ second delay everytime we switch targets. Pick a different victim to bully. While you're at it add +13 and insightful +5 ability augments, freedom of movement augments and distant diversion augments to purchase able augment list.

 

[Urklore]

Is inqusition DPS that nasty! I thought single target DPS was dead in this new age of DDO of throwing tons of mobs at you at once and you really need THF or AoE attacks to survive. Even with the 1 ranged AOE the tree gets, the DPS is lackluster. Am I missing something?

And shooting one barrel at a time makes me lose what little hair I have left.

 

[rabidfox]

Am I missing something?

People like to complain. I'm sure someone will ask monks to be nerf'd in a few weeks from now because their damage went up at the expense of utility/fun (same way repeaters did).

 

[Urklore]

People have it made now. Back in my days we ran around with 20hp wizards using sleep and bards using fascinate because we had to!

 

[SpartanKiller13]

If anything this thread is encouraging me to roll an inquisitive.

How strong are we talking? I had an artificer that I adored shortly after MD came out, but before they re-arranged the timing & number of shots from Battle Engineer (the glory days of artificer )...the build hit harder after the changes, but was so slow and painful for me to play. Are folks enjoying the build you want nerfed or is it simply hitting harder than other builds? B/C if the build is strong, but dull, then that is balance to me....it ran me off the build anyway.

It's uhhh very good. One of the top DPS builds currently, with Inquis/Repeater/RC being the top three AFAIK and Inquis requires the least work to get good results from while also offering the most flexibility in what else you can offer (since it's class-agnostic).

No. Repeating crossbows just got nerfed as a sacrifice to combat lag. We are still suffering from a 3+ second delay everytime we switch targets.

That's the problem. QoL is down a bunch for RXB/DXB, so players of that style feel bad, but DPS is up a bunch for those styles so other players feel pressured to run it/weaker when they run with those who are running it.

Long delay on swapping is terrible, but no problem for raiding for instance. How can I justify bringing a THF Barb (which I love) to push raids when I can just play an Inquis (which I don't love) and contribute more DPS, more utility, and much higher survivability?

Is inqusition DPS that nasty! I thought single target DPS was dead in this new age of DDO of throwing tons of mobs at you at once and you really need THF or AoE attacks to survive. Even with the 1 ranged AOE the tree gets, the DPS is lackluster. Am I missing something?

And shooting one barrel at a time makes me lose what little hair I have left.

It is that nasty. Can be clunky, esp with some active attacks, but it's extremely good output.

Single-target is bad until you can blow up a pack of mobs with that one ranged AoE. Or IPS 2-3 per active attack. And then you're very good focused single-target when you get to a boss, or in raids, etc etc.

If your DPS is very high, you can just shoot 3 mobs while the THF cleaves them all XD

People like to complain. I'm sure someone will ask monks to be nerf'd in a few weeks from now because their damage went up at the expense of utility/fun (same way repeaters did).

Pumping DPS at the cost of QoL leaves an awkward spot where pretty much everyone feels bad. Not sure they had a better alternative given the issues they were trying to fix though, like if they just made DXB/RXB clunky without some benefit everyone would hate it far more than now; at least currently ya get to hit really hard when ya can...

 

[GrizzlyOso]

Now hang on , six months ago all the ranged players were gnashing their teeth about how ranged would be made unplayable with the changes.

 

[rabidfox]

Now hang on , six months ago all the ranged players were gnashing their teeth about how ranged would be made unplayable with the changes.

Try leveling (or soloing at cap) on repeater; the damage is better, but not as nice outside that.

 

[Teh_Troll]

Now hang on , six months ago all the ranged players were gnashing their teeth about how ranged would be made unplayable with the changes.

And 6 days ago many "monk" players were complaining about monk damage getting nerfed.

There are many who play this game who aren't particularly intelligent. Fortunately for those special mammals they have my guidance.

 

[Teh_Troll]

If anything this thread is encouraging me to roll an inquisitive.

Do it. We all should. It should become a meme at this point.

 

[Lominal]

How can I justify bringing a THF Barb (which I love) to push raids

If you were bringing THF barb to push raids before, then inquis didnt kill off that play style. THF in push raids hasn't been good for years.


Personally I think there are few easy changes that I would implement:
1. Patience only applies to melee weapons. Only one ranged weapon style takes the speed penalty from patience (bow) and bows taking it is a dps loss
2. Remove shoot first as an aoe attack. I the biggest difference is that having a 6s CD (classless) aoe attack that can do 50-70% of a pack's health in r10. If the issue persists they could look into scaling shoot first, or altering the other aoe attacks

I think a lot of people are overestimating how far ahead xbows are currently. Several thrower builds were historically competitive with shifter (albeit squishier) and I never heard/saw anyone complain about that, which is why I think the issues is the aoe. If you want raw math, Inquis lost around 20% of their dps from the speed changes, and gained around 40% from the DS changes. These are roughly multiplicative, meaning that you end up 12% ahead of pre update inquis. The xbow changes alone can't account for the numbers that are currently in game