The New Raid: Opportunities for Improvement

Sarlona Raiding

Well-known member
I think the raid is mostly good with a fantastic story and design, but a few things about the raid are sure not to be fan favorites. Much like Myth Drannor the negative might be overweighted - negatively impacting perception of the raid.

1) Sometimes the dragon seems to not destroy the phylactery even if everything is done perfectly. In many cases it's quick when the person enters the non-magic zone and gets the dragon in place. I've also seen it done correctly for over 15 minutes and finally we had the person with the phylactery die so we can try again and that seemed to work, but wasted alot of time and soured people on the raid

2) The spreading dot is an interesting mechanic with potential, but should have a circle like mechanic such as the killing time personal circles. While you can see if a person has the spreading virus dot, the range is difficult to tell and seems far too big. It's not a melee-friendly mechanic for sure. In random groups it's going to ultimately result in alot of finger pointing and bad experiences. I think this can easily be improved by adding a circle mechanic and making the range a bit shorter - like maybe the range of a killing time personal circle.

3) Difficulty differences should actually mean something. While the 80 stat requirement isn't excessive, it should be lower on normal and higher on elite+. Maybe 70, 80, 90 based on difficulty.

4) At times the tank is hitting the boss, but the party is still taking the different dot that should only occur when the tank isn't hitting the boss. This seems to happen frequently in the Marilith room. It's not a big deal, but something seems off with this.

5) The HP seem proportionally higher than other content slightly below this level.

Edited to Add 6) You should be able to trade runes for golden age weapons.
 
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Sarlona Raiding

Well-known member
The lag has also been bad since they added this raid, but hard to tell if it's the raid, night revels or something else. Anyhow, the lag on Sarlona is reducing opportunities to run this raid.
 

Purr

Well-known member
Maybe I'm dumb, but are there any real chances the raid will be adjusted now that it's live? Aren't comments like this only considered during Lamania testing?

Not trying to throw buckets of water on the comments, but, like, isn't the raid as it is just going to be the raid and we can take it or leave it?
 

Rusty_helmet

Well-known member
Maybe I'm dumb, but are there any real chances the raid will be adjusted now that it's live? Aren't comments like this only considered during Lamania testing?

Not trying to throw buckets of water on the comments, but, like, isn't the raid as it is just going to be the raid and we can take it or leave it?
Comments are never considered. The raid is unchanged from lammania. People even flagged and reported issues in the raid and nothing was done. Lammania is a preview server and nothing more.
 

DilemmaEnder

Thelanis Player
Maybe I'm dumb, but are there any real chances the raid will be adjusted now that it's live? Aren't comments like this only considered during Lamania testing?

Not trying to throw buckets of water on the comments, but, like, isn't the raid as it is just going to be the raid and we can take it or leave it?
Comments can eventually lead to change.

Look at Skeletons in the Closet and the addition purchasing the optional chest loot with raid runes. It took a year but it eventually got through. Even though we were told that it would never happen.

So voice your opinion and be open to other views. How else will the creators know what their clients want.
 

Tyrande

Well-known member
I think the raid is mostly good with a fantastic story and design, but a few things about the raid are sure not to be fan favorites. Much like Myth Drannor the negative might be overweighted - negatively impacting perception of the raid.
[...]

5) The HP seem proportionally higher than other content slightly below this level.

Edited to Add 6) You should be able to trade runes for golden age weapons.
amen for that. Can I add more? One year wait? Ouch...

7) Please add staff items that were promised from Lammania testing.

8) Please add feytwisted versions of the current weapons and accessories that have more caster stats.

9) The warlock bangle, please convert the Kinetic Lore + Impulse to Sunshine Lore + Sunshine Power to include Light Radiance and Force.

10) Change the Spell Focus Mastery +5 on the Red Wizard's Sight to something else more useful. An example would be Profane or Insightful Spell Focus Mastery... EDIT: Profane would be less desirable because it is also available as an augment; but may save an augment slot this way.

11) Allow raid runes to purchase the feytwisted versions of the current items.
 
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Sarlona Raiding

Well-known member
Maybe I'm dumb, but are there any real chances the raid will be adjusted now that it's live? Aren't comments like this only considered during Lamania testing?

Not trying to throw buckets of water on the comments, but, like, isn't the raid as it is just going to be the raid and we can take it or leave it?
There is a reasonably long history of them responding to comments and making changes even if the subset is small.

From my perspective, SSG needs this feedback whether they change it or not, but I have no expectations that they will make any adjustments.
 

axel15810

Well-known member
The main issue I want to point out is the devs need get the entire community involved earlier on in the development process.

I left lots of feedback on the MD raid after playing it on Lamannia on the first preview, but by the time the raid was released on Lam it was clearly too late in the process for the devs to make any substantial changes to the raid's design. It was minor tweaks and bug fixes and that's it. Now maybe the devs just didn't agree with my or other players' feedback, and that's fine, but my strong suspicion is at that point in the process the devs would not have had time to change much related to the core design regardless of what the feedback was.

Next time a raid is developed, I'd love to see a post by the dev building the raid asking for feedback right at the start of the process. Such as a post asking which of these mechanics do you want to see (list proposed mechanics)? What do you want the final fight to look like? Which map design do you prefer? etc. etc. Present the community with several options and let us choose.

Devs have done this sort of community feedback lately with loot design. I think it should also be done with quest/raid design. They could post preprodocution screenshots, or maybe even a video or livestream similar to what Bob Hess did with the Joy of Delving series when he built the Catastrophe quest. There's lots of ways to get better feedback than just the players council and a very late in the process Lamannia preview or two.
 

PainStealer

Active member
I find the raid to be rather unimaginative. Oh no there is a Dracolich in some Dwarven ruins!!!!! We have to do some wonky mechanic to destroy it's phylactery !!! OOO and watch out for the fire damage that keeps stacking up. How many Dracolich have we now had in raids? How many fire damage DOTs?

The only challenge is not falling asleep as your party drops a boss with 70 Million HP. Then the optional is to beat on 12 skeletons with a combined 100 million HP.

The raid mechanics are simple to learn. The biggest issue is to get people to read instructions in party chat.

Despite a lot of quality feedback on the Lammania forums that was completely ignored. The loot is mostly a lateral upgrade from existing loot. Some of it is just plain sentient fodder ( Palisade I am looking at you. Seriously there is no reason to equip that shield. It is much worse than the Golden and Fallen Age large shields. )

So yeah, I am not so glad I spent cash on the game. Next time I'll probably wait until it is on sale for points.
 

Teh_Troll

Well-known member
The only challenge is not falling asleep as your party drops a boss with 70 Million HP. Then the optional is to beat on 12 skeletons with a combined 100 million HP.
I was drunk over the weekend and literally fell asleep TWICE in the same raid DPSing the dragon.

I have no shame.
 

Vox

Well-known member
The main issue I want to point out is the devs need get the entire community involved earlier on in the development process.

I left lots of feedback on the MD raid after playing it on Lamannia on the first preview, but by the time the raid was released on Lam it was clearly too late in the process for the devs to make any substantial changes to the raid's design. It was minor tweaks and bug fixes and that's it. Now maybe the devs just didn't agree with my or other players' feedback, and that's fine, but my strong suspicion is at that point in the process the devs would not have had time to change much related to the core design regardless of what the feedback was.

Next time a raid is developed, I'd love to see a post by the dev building the raid asking for feedback right at the start of the process. Such as a post asking which of these mechanics do you want to see (list proposed mechanics)? What do you want the final fight to look like? Which map design do you prefer? etc. etc. Present the community with several options and let us choose.

Devs have done this sort of community feedback lately with loot design. I think it should also be done with quest/raid design. They could post preprodocution screenshots, or maybe even a video or livestream similar to what Bob Hess did with the Joy of Delving series when he built the Catastrophe quest. There's lots of ways to get better feedback than just the players council and a very late in the process Lamannia preview or two.

A 'design a raid' event would be fantastic for community engagement and goodwill.

Might be troublesome to sift through some of the noise, but perhaps they could do a vote system of 5 choices for each step or something
 

Blaster

Well-known member
Maybe I'm dumb, but are there any real chances the raid will be adjusted now that it's live? Aren't comments like this only considered during Lamania testing?

Not trying to throw buckets of water on the comments, but, like, isn't the raid as it is just going to be the raid and we can take it or leave it?
Raids have been adjusted post-release. The one that comes to mind is Hunt or Be Hunted where the Master of the Hunt's force damage strike was made less likely to occur than other damage types as per the U53.1 patch that came out a month after the raid released with U53. Granted that was just one individual aspect of Hunt, while other issues like the massive lag spikes you can see in it have yet to be addressed two years later.

I suspect we can maybe see some small tweaks here or there for the new raid, but I'm not holding my breath for anything significant that can make it more enjoyable and any less of a chore than it feels now.
 

Anurakh

Little Nixie
The real change this raid needs is to cut all the hp in half, and change several phases of the raid to challenges that don't involve beating a red/purple name. I mean, there are 5 phases in the raid, and all 5 consist of just beating a red named. Really, devs? Very repetitive, very boring, and it takes out a lot of the game's archetypes.

We all know they're not going to change this, but it's what the raid really needs, above all else.

And yes, I agree with several posters above: I actually fell asleep doing this raid. Literally. My eyes closed and I woke up a few seconds later, but it was, like, oh my god, so boring!
 

Ryiah

Well-known member
And yes, I agree with several posters above: I actually fell asleep doing this raid. Literally. My eyes closed and I woke up a few seconds later, but it was, like, oh my god, so boring!
Yeah they basically took the most boring aspects of Temple of the Deathwyrm and created this raid from them.
 

Ahpuch

Well-known member
A 'design a raid' event would be fantastic for community engagement and goodwill.

Might be troublesome to sift through some of the noise, but perhaps they could do a vote system of 5 choices for each step or something
No thanks. Last time they had community input in designing a quest we got Catastrophe.
 
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