The Unofficial Hard Core Summer League 2024!

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TroggyTrog

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From this point forward, the DDO Unofficial Hardcore League information, rules, guidelines, scheduling, etc. will be located here on the forums: https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?th...hardcore-league-summer-2024.12386/post-142889

Everything below this line is old/brainstorming/spitballing history and no longer current for the planned DDO Unofficial Hardcore League. Please use the link ABOVE ^ if you are interested in participating in the planned DDO Unofficial Hardcore League starting on July 1st, 2024, and any future Leagues. Thank you very much!

----OLD THREAD FROM THIS POINT ON----

This is in the very early stages.

I'm currently working with Kozybean on a 30-day Unofficial Hard Core League 2024 to be happening on Wayfinder server for July 1st - July 30th (just in time to be completed before Myth Drannor's launch). We are brainstorming the rules and everything right now, so I guess, stay tuned. We spent a few hours tonight during her livestream just spitballing ideas with her chat (so go and watch her past streams to see more details). But this is an idea I came up with less than 48 hours ago, and I think it is very doable for the DDO community to come together and make our own Hard Core season since SSG isn't offering one any time soon.

@Vooduspyce @Arcanaverse @axel15810 @TavernTails @Mary @Strimtom @Cordovan @Tolero @Nimvind : Please let @KozyBean or me know if you are interested, wish to participate, or can help in anyway. Thank you!

P.S. I'm very inexperienced with organizing things like this and posting on the forums, but I'll try and do my best.
 
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TroggyTrog

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So, what would this Hard Core League look like? Well, it would be very similar to how permadeath players and guilds operate on various DDO servers. We'll have a set of basic rules, and the honor system will apply. I'm not 100% sure how we'll do rewards or achievements. Since it will be an honor system, it means cheating could occur and it'd be difficult to address that in game. So, let's keep it simple and have fun, and try our very best to be fair, have honor, and enjoy the event.

Where will this happen? We think hosting this on Wayfinder would be ideal for most players, as it is probably the smallest populated server, and thus most players won't have characters and gear already banked there, thus a fairly 'fresh' start for players.

When? The event starts Monday, July 1st through Tuesday July 30th. (Specific starting hour/times will be decided later).

Who will be playing in this event? Anyone and everyone! As many as would like to! That's the goal at least! This event is especially being catered to helping streamers play with their followers and viewers that haven't had that chance this year, as in the past years when HC Leagues were available.

Why? Well, simply put, SSG hasn't announced a HC season for this year, so this is the next best thing. Plus, this really helps many of us scratch that itch for gaming with the bigger DDO community that we long for when playing on the HC server. I've heard it said by many streamers that this is one of top things they love about HC League, and from what I've witnessed in chat, most concur.

How? Okay, this is probably the biggest question, or the question with the most answers, because this event will require rules by which the participants should abide. So, basically this is the part that will take most of the planning and discussion. I'm really hoping for contributions from veteran permadeath guilds and players here. Years ago, I led a small permadeath guild, myself, so I'm not without some experience, but haven't done so in many years.
 

TroggyTrog

Well-known member
What I have in mind for rules and structure that worked well for us back then were things like this:

No Guild Airship Amenities or Guild Buffs. This removes added advantages to questing, creating a greater challenge. Having a guild is great, as it'll allow us to have much more comradery and social interactions, as well as keep better tabs on each other's progress, but having guild buffs would lower the challenge of the event. Off-ship Guild Vendors will be the only exception to this rule, as they are NPC vendors found in the game world for you to acquire potions or scrolls or other items you can utilize for questing, and they provide no major or unfair advantage.

No Daily Dice. This is to prevent added advantages as well as XP boosts.

No Iconics. Since the idea is to start at level 1, and since this is an honor system, this will prevent cheating via free level 15 gear and XP. To help with this, you can easily see what race a character is via hovering over player icons on the social panel.

No Auction House, Astral Shard Exchange, Cannith Crafting or DDO Store items. There are a few reasons for this rule. First, we are guests on Wayfinder, and thus don't want to affect their server economy. Secondly, many advantages can be had by utilizing items found outside of quests. Basically, loot what you find and use it. Part of the fun of permadeath style is to keep it feeling like you are playing pencil and paper, and having limits on what your character can use in this compacity really does help you stay creative when preparing to quest and while questing. However, permitted is the use of NPC vendors and brokers. If you find an item in this wise, it would be like your character going into town in a pencil and paper campaign to find a smith or armorer and buy a sword from them for example. Trading items within your party is also permittable.

All Quests Must Be Run At Level On Elite. This is where the real challenge begins. This is HARD CORE. You won't have guild ship buffs, and you will be running every quest at level. You won't be running quests over level. Think of this like a campaign. You do the quest once, then move on. Obviously, there are some quests that just don't work that way, like the Delera's and Thernal situation that we know of from HC, and of course The Shroud. No repeating quests. Again, the idea here is not to farm quests/items, and to keep that pencil and paper campaign feeling. So, to clarify, if you are level 1, you will be running all the level 1 quests until you are finished all the level 1 quests, before taking level 2 and doing all the level 2 quests. This means you will be running level 1 quests on Elite at level 1, or if you are level 3, you will be running all the level 3 quests on Elite at level 3. Since this isn't the official HC league, we won't have level-lock-outs when you get to that squirrely issue from HC with level 20 content (doing heroics while epic).

No Soloing. The point of this rule is to keep everyone accountable to some degree. If many of the participants in this event solo'd quests, then know one would really know if they died 12 times in a quest. We have to have some kind of accountability to prevent cheating and to keep it as fair and balanced as we can. The only exceptions to this would be the few specific quests that REQUIRE you to play it solo. Also, this event is a community event, ultimately for fun! The goal is to join a party of adventurers to seek loot and glory!

No Use of Banked Items From Other Characters/Alts. The theme of this event is to simulate a campaign style Hard Core experience. It's supposed to be a fresh start, so let it be! Don't pass items from alts or other characters of yours to your HC character. However, there is one exception to this: The Heirloom Item. The Heirloom is the inheritance item. This is the item you keep after your character dies questing. You can keep this one item of your choice and pass it on to your next character to use as their sole inheritance that was left for them in your character's last will and testament. You can only have one Heirloom item, no matter how many character deaths you experience during the event. However, you can pick a different item to be your Heirloom per life. So that Vorpal Falchion might be your first Heirloom item passed-down after your first character death. But, let's say after character death #3 you decide to make your Sword of Shadows your next Heirloom item to pass down. That is fine. Also, keep in mind that there are no free character transfers off Wayfinder after this event, so you are not farming items to move over to another server. This should help change a lot of the playing styles the players will utilize in comparison to past HC leagues.

Loot the Body!!! What? Yes, you read correctly! When your character dies, the other characters in the same party in that instanced dungeon or wilderness will be able to loot the body! The only item off-limits will be the Heirloom item. All other items on that character will be made available to be looted after the players resurrect the dead body (granting the ability to utilize trade windows). Handling this should be left up to the party, but the dead character should link any/all items to the party via party chat and let them decide on how to exactly divvy up the loot.
This could just be a democratic method, making dice rolls in party chat, or just going alphabetically. However you'd like to resolve this is up to you. You don't have to loot the body at all, but you might find this is quite a fun or memorable moment in your adventure. You might even take a moment to remember your fallen comrade with a song or prayer or just laugh or cry! One of the tricky parts about this and something that will tempt players, is trying to get a soul stone or resurrect a character that might be in quite a perilous position on the map. Will it really be worth trying to loot that body?

No Twink Gear or Items. This includes Goldseal Hirelings like Frogo and items like The Elite Spider Cultist Mask. The point of this is to level the playing field as much as possible and give everyone the same footing in playing out their adventurer in this event.

These are for sure not every idea I can come up with, but these will do for now. None of these ideas are set in stone, though, to me, some are closer to be set in stone than others. All of these ideas for rules can be tweaked and adjusted based on feedback and/or possible polling. We'll compile a finalized list before the event gets underway on July 1st. But for now, I think this will give all of you an idea of what I'm hoping for with this event. Again, nothing is final right now. These are all just ideas and a theme I am hoping to cultivate with the players seeking a hard core style community experience. I'll post the goals for this event I'm hoping for, soon.
 
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TroggyTrog

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The GOALS for this Unofficial Hard Core Summer League 2024 event:

Ultimately FUN! First and foremost! And, iirc, a dev named Madfloyd once said "you can't have fun without challenge", or something along those lines. So, that's why we need some rules and structure.

I want this event to be FAIR! It will be an honor system for the most part, as it'll be up to the players to keep themselves accountable.

Also, we need to utilize the K.I.S.S. principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid). We don't need 50 rules with subsections and bylaws and referendums and a council of judges. This is a fun, community event and we need to keep it that way. No serious prizes. It'd be too difficult to implement and there would really be no way to prevent someone from cheating to attain the top position on a leaderboard.

One of the basic goals is to be rewarded with a sense of achievement and accomplishment in seeing how far you can get before your character or party dies. The laughs and thrills will be countless, and I'm quite sure we'll all get to experience watching streamers go through this as well when they participate live.

So, what are some milestones to try to shoot for? Well, we can cut-n-paste the typical HC goalposts like hitting level 20, 1750 favor and 5k favor, 10 and 20 reaper points. However, I think what we should aim for is completing every quest on the most difficult setting at level (so every level 1 quest on ELITE and so forth). The solo quests will really be the only exception, as they will be run on the only difficulty of SOLO. I'm not sure if we need or want to include Challenge quests in the mix, but we can if that's the consensus. I just find the Challenge quests being a bit trickier to fit into something like this, even on the typical HC seasons they just seem problematic rather than something most people would do. We'll probably just do a poll on that one. I feel like we could have a place or thread where people can post their final status of favor and quests run (via screenshots) when the event comes to a close and maybe 'reward' some leaders based off of that with acknowledgement of their rankings amongst all posted screenshots.

This will probably be one of, if not THE, hardest Hardcore season due to running quests AT level. That again isn't set in stone, but I feel like it really would make the event challenging and push for the players to think about how to create a party that can handle everything they face. Shoot, we could even require everyone to run quests on R1 or something, however, again, it seems like that'd be nearly impossible to prove unless people screenshotted every quest completion status window, and we just don't have time or space for all of that. Again, the K.I.S.S. principle.

So, for now, I think the basic idea and themes are laid out. We have about 10 days or less to get this all ironed out, and I think we arrive at that point just fine. Be sure to tell all your DDO friends, guildies and streamer buddies about this. Hopefully, this will get some traction and we can make it an event that everyone will absolutely love! Thank you!
 
Hello ! from Wayfinder,

I've been hosting Raid Nights on Wednesday and Saturday, It an open LFM and I look forward to anyone wanting to join a Raid with us (Always Full but we do carry a signup list and rotate people in). Please let me know if I can assist. We have an Open Guild Discord with lots of communication in the evening time.


Mortanis/Kinhammer/Hardscale

Leader of Wayfinder's Curiosity Shop
 
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TroggyTrog

Well-known member
You had me interested until the no solo rule. That is how I enjoy playing the game and if you are going to use the honor system then solo players should be trusted just as much as a group of players.
I play primarily solo too. That's how I do all my main HC toons and live toons more than 90% of the time. However, there's zero accountability that way unless someone is videoing/livestreaming their entire process, and we just don't have the time to check on a player doing that, whereas if someone is grouping they have up to 5 other players keeping them honest. Ultimately it probably won't matter as there's no real way to have a perfect ranking system with this event, no way to say who is the #1 player, or #15 player via a leaderboard in any category, even if someone were to screenshot their favor. But, again, like I said in my posts, nothing is set in stone at this point until I get feedback from as many people as possible before the event starts on July 1st. Still, if many of us are just avoiding the other players and not grouping/playing solo for this event, it kind of goes against the very principle of what it's all about, since it is a community event, that means grouping/playing with others. I'll be grouping for this myself even though that's not how I normally play. I guess we'll just have to see what everyone else thinks over the next few days as we flesh this out.
 

TroggyTrog

Well-known member
Hello ! from Wayfinder,

I've been hosting Raid Nights on Wednesday and Saturday, It an open LFM and I look forward to anyone wanting to join a Raid with us (Always Full but we do carry a signup list and rotate people in). Please let me know if I can assist. We have an Open Guild Discord with lots of commination in the evening time.


Mortanis/Kinhammer/Hardscale

Leader of Wayfinder's Curiosity Shop
Good to know. Again, this is a permadeath/HC style league, so not sure how that will work, as everyone participating will be fresh characters on the server, playing one life, with no gear or help from other characters that are not playing the same permadeath/HC style.
 

TroggyTrog

Well-known member
That's Fine :) however if anyone after this Event plans to stick-around. We do have a great lag-less server and a welcoming community to hang out with after the this unofficial hardcore session.
For sure! That's actually one of the silver linings I want for this, as the toons most likely will stay on Wayfinder, and give streamers and many other players and alternative server to play on from time to time, or even regularly. Seems like a win-win situation for the Wayfinder population.
 

TroggyTrog

Well-known member
Ah, thanks Cordovan! It's in the early stages of planning and discussion, but I am starting to get some positive feedback and interested players. I just hope we can make it work, since it's kind of a permadeath guild style of play, using those oldschool rules to make it work on a regular server like Wayfinder. If you can help get the word out on the live Friday stream later, that'd be really great! Anyone interested can just reply in the thread and hopefully we can get a sign-up sheet soon, along with a finalized rules statement for players to adhere to. Any advice or help you can bring, I'd welcome, as I've never planned a community event like this before.
 

Positive thinking

Well-known member
As t
Ah, thanks Cordovan! It's in the early stages of planning and discussion, but I am starting to get some positive feedback and interested players. I just hope we can make it work, since it's kind of a permadeath guild style of play, using those oldschool rules to make it work on a regular server like Wayfinder. If you can help get the word out on the live Friday stream later, that'd be really great! Anyone interested can just reply in the thread and hopefully we can get a sign-up sheet soon, along with a finalized rules statement for players to adhere to. Any advice or help you can bring, I'd welcome, as I've never planned a community event like this before.
As the new publicist for Extreme Mortal Voyage Permadeath guild from Argonessen, i think we will muster up some guildies that will participate in this event as this is almost a match to what we run in our regular permadeath guild.

Some questions are what about favor rewards and buffers, what about hirelings, and and spoilers, some of these we allow and others we dont?

As for challenges, may i suggest you approach it as run once and earn favor and loot, any reruns can not reward loot or ingredients, just favor.

W
 

Sturmbb

Well-known member
Ah, thanks Cordovan! It's in the early stages of planning and discussion, but I am starting to get some positive feedback and interested players. I just hope we can make it work, since it's kind of a permadeath guild style of play, using those oldschool rules to make it work on a regular server like Wayfinder. If you can help get the word out on the live Friday stream later, that'd be really great! Anyone interested can just reply in the thread and hopefully we can get a sign-up sheet soon, along with a finalized rules statement for players to adhere to. Any advice or help you can bring, I'd welcome, as I've never planned a community event like this before.
This sounds amazing. Definitely sign me up. I've been getting the DDO itch for awhile now. Thank you soo much for organizing this. I really hope this is successful as i love playing DDO and was really missing playing the game.
 

Blametroi

Well-known member
I like the idea a lot but can't participate this go round. It reminds me a bit of something I read that SW:TOR did a while back with a new "no transfers" server they created with everyone starting from scratch.
 

TroggyTrog

Well-known member
As t

As the new publicist for Extreme Mortal Voyage Permadeath guild from Argonessen, i think we will muster up some guildies that will participate in this event as this is almost a match to what we run in our regular permadeath guild.

Some questions are what about favor rewards and buffers, what about hirelings, and and spoilers, some of these we allow and others we dont?

As for challenges, may i suggest you approach it as run once and earn favor and loot, any reruns can not reward loot or ingredients, just favor.

W
I'm up to have a conversation about this and get some insight on how players run permadeath in the current day of DDO. I used to run a permadeath guild 10-12 years ago, but that's about the last time I've done that other than playing on HC league (which isn't exactly the same thing). So yes, looking for insight and ideas to help really nail down the rules properly and make this a smooth run for July. If interested send me a discord link and we'll have a chat.
 

TroggyTrog

Well-known member
I like the idea a lot but can't participate this go round. It reminds me a bit of something I read that SW:TOR did a while back with a new "no transfers" server they created with everyone starting from scratch.
Thanks for the positive message! If this iteration is successful, I am not against trying it again down the road, especially if we don't get a new HC season for a while.
 

TroggyTrog

Well-known member
This sounds amazing. Definitely sign me up. I've been getting the DDO itch for awhile now. Thank you soo much for organizing this. I really hope this is successful as i love playing DDO and was really missing playing the game.
Cool! Very happy to see your enthusiasm! I'm going to do some chatting with Kozybean and perhaps some others this weekend, and hopefully after that we'll have some sign-up sheets and more information available.
 
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