If you have solid but not spectacular DC mind fog + sleet storm to slow em down and -10 saves is good combo.The typical -4 max save debuffs haven't really aged well in the 120+ DC era of DDO.
If you have solid but not spectacular DC mind fog + sleet storm to slow em down and -10 saves is good combo.The typical -4 max save debuffs haven't really aged well in the 120+ DC era of DDO.
Only for will saves. And mobs have to save for mind fog for that. If your DC is too low, they'll laugh at that spell too, even if they have to do it multiple times.If you have solid but not spectacular DC mind fog + sleet storm to slow em down and -10 saves is good combo.
Or you can just build a proper DC caster with DCs above 130 and just kill them without waisting time debuffing.
I mostly play Wizard but you have to pick 3 to really specialize in, although you don't need 130+ on most of them. I was mostly referring to instant killing, so necro, and illusion. I also boost enchant is what I normally choose for the destiny boosts. Trap the soul, mass hold works fine at 120+ with one will save as does evoc with reflex.Can you get >130 DC on a sorc for all saves (necro, evoc, ench, illusion, conj and optionally transmutation) or just for a few of them?
I am having trouble getting 130 on just a few much less on all.
Only for will saves. And mobs have to save for mind fog for that. If your DC is too low, they'll laugh at that spell too, even if they have to do it multiple times.
I mostly play Wizard but you have to pick 3 to really specialize in, although you don't need 130+ on most of them. I was mostly referring to instant killing, so necro, and illusion. I also boost enchant is what I normally choose for the destiny boosts. Trap the soul, mass hold works fine at 120+ with one will save as does evoc with reflex.
I know, but I wanted to make it clear for those who don't know the arcane casters well and might think what it isn't. Also, the reality is that currently combat on high difficulties is usually very fast, and against packs of mobs, so there is little time for debuff spells, individual debuffs don't help as much as you need against mode packs, and group debuffs usually have a save. You know this, but not all the people reading you know it.Sure just throwing out other options like mind fog, crushing despair etc... that don't require destiny choices. You can also use enervate, energy drain etc...
If you have terrible DC's Tilo's madcap debuff plan is the way to go. I personally don't like taking exalted angel or Shiradi. If I can't land any IK spells or mass hold in the new content, I may well have to specialize more and go Shiradi we will see I guess. For instance if I don't need debuffs, I like Magus + Draconic + Shadowdancer, the cool down reductions are really valuable on Wizard I have found. I also like T5 Magus the best right now. But again may have to switch up in the new content not sure yet.
Thanks. Yeah, wizard gets somewhat better DC than sorcs still though CM/WM has added something to sorcs.
I am far from all out on DC on my and currently at 113-123 (without pots or buffs).
the druid spent 25 seconds stationary buffing...that accounts for all but 3 seconds of the difference. also consider that the druid had more champs to fight and they had different reapers to deal with...plus unless they know they are racing it is hard to really compare them, no?
We see a melee r10 solo and a nuker r10 solo of the same quest where the COLD druid nuker has a substantial advantage because it's a FIRE monsters only quest basically.
And the Razorclaw Shifter which is supposed to be mainly single target dps clears the FIRE dungeon faster than a COLD druid. Do I need say more.
I feel this comment speaks loudly to me. I have seen little disagreement with this take, either here on the forums or played out in the game. I have been in many a group where the DPS nuker dominated kill count. I have not seen a raid spot be wasted on a nuker. All of my information is anecdotal, but I feel that this discussion is mainly anecdotal anyway. No one seems to be objecting to the facts that nukers are excellent at leveling and anything up to R7, but at R7 they were nerfed. The disagreement begins as to the justification and reaction. I am curious as to the goal. Do the "un-nerf nuker" crowd want casters to dominate at leveling, R1-7, and then also R10? I still seem many nukers in groups I join so I do not feel the classes are dying. What is the goal? Do we want everyone to play nukers all the time? I understand that many people feel the nerf is too much, but I am looking for clarification. Through the 10 pages of discussion (and other threads) it seems that proof is difficult, but I am curious as to what the end goal for the discussion is. We seem to agree that nukers are not weak all the times, just some times, but we want nukers to be weak none of the times? If the the nukers are un-nerfed and riad parties are mostly nukers, will that be the goal?Nukers are still excellent for R1 levelling so you will see many on the TR train - not so much at end game.
I feel this comment speaks loudly to me. I have seen little disagreement with this take, either here on the forums or played out in the game. I have been in many a group where the DPS nuker dominated kill count. I have not seen a raid spot be wasted on a nuker. All of my information is anecdotal, but I feel that this discussion is mainly anecdotal anyway. No one seems to be objecting to the facts that nukers are excellent at leveling and anything up to R7, but at R7 they were nerfed. The disagreement begins as to the justification and reaction. I am curious as to the goal. Do the "un-nerf nuker" crowd want casters to dominate at leveling, R1-7, and then also R10? I still seem many nukers in groups I join so I do not feel the classes are dying. What is the goal? Do we want everyone to play nukers all the time? I understand that many people feel the nerf is too much, but I am looking for clarification. Through the 10 pages of discussion (and other threads) it seems that proof is difficult, but I am curious as to what the end goal for the discussion is. We seem to agree that nukers are not weak all the times, just some times, but we want nukers to be weak none of the times? If the the nukers are un-nerfed and riad parties are mostly nukers, will that be the goal?
I get that you want nukers to be more powerful at R10, but I am not sure I see why. I don't see tons of threads for tanks trying to make the case that they should be better at soloing content while leveling. I feel like the tank has accepted the limitations, even if they are not happy about it, so why do nukers need to be good at everything. It would be cool if they were, but why?
I'll comment because my guild runs a fair bunch of raids (27/week scheduled), usually around LH/R1 - we do teaching raids and are an open-invite guild so we don't have a public push group (our push group meets seasonally). Nuker casters work fine there still, and some of our better players are on one currently for various reasons. We had 5-6 nukers on Tuesday night raids and it wasn't a problem. We're not a R10 raid guild, but there's a lot of volume lol.I feel this comment speaks loudly to me. I have seen little disagreement with this take, either here on the forums or played out in the game. I have been in many a group where the DPS nuker dominated kill count. I have not seen a raid spot be wasted on a nuker.
Currently the limitations on nukers are severe. It is either play cold caster with t5 magus or DC caster or go home.
Pretty much any other type of nuker builds are so gimped DPS wise compared to melee or ranged that yes, the spot is actually wasted, unless you count mass hold as useful, but melee/ranged have more then enough ways to CC nowadays so even CC is not the casters niche anymore.
We are assuming that the melees are on dps builds and not Falchion Barbs. The dps ceiling for casters is about half that of an equivalently geared melee dps and it gets worse when compared to the top meta builds. If you do nothing except R10 quests and R1 raids this isnt an issue as the dps requirements are low - but even at R3 hunted you will have an easier time with a physical dps heavy group.If you're saying that casters can't out-DPS melees (in quests or raids) you're definitely playing with a limited selection of DDO's population
In the r10 groups I play most of the time the only caster in the group is me. There is now an overabundance of melee in the end game. Casters are basically gone.Do the "un-nerf nuker" crowd want casters to dominate at leveling, R1-7, and then also R10? I still seem many nukers in groups I join so I do not feel the classes are dying
Tank is a super specialized job. Magical spell damage covers a very wide range of classes. Why were melee types crying day and night when their defenses were low? Why didn't they accept their sad fate? Because it's the same situation.I get that you want nukers to be more powerful at R10, but I am not sure I see why. I don't see tons of threads for tanks trying to make the case that they should be better at soloing content while leveling. I feel like the tank has accepted the limitations, even if they are not happy about it, so why do nukers need to be good at everything. It would be cool if they were, but why?
Gave this post a thumbs up but feel that wasn't enoughSo the logic here is as follows: nukers are good at leveling, wich every class can be, now nuker DPS must be overnerfed by a whopping 33% in R10 to compensate for that. I mean, really?
And we're assuming you're on a nuker build not a gimp.We are assuming that the melees are on dps builds and not Falchion Barbs. The dps ceiling for casters is about half that of an equivalently geared melee dps and it gets worse when compared to the top meta builds. If you do nothing except R10 quests and R1 raids this isnt an issue as the dps requirements are low - but even at R3 hunted you will have an easier time with a physical dps heavy group.
Fair play. I would be embarrassed if a nuker was out dpsing me but you are owning it. Well done.And we're assuming you're on a nuker build not a gimp.
Our R3 Hunt runs did plenty fine with multiple nukers. YMMV.
Not everyone in DDO plays the same builds every time, but it's ok if you have to copy paste someone else