The Weak Role of Nukers

[Ped Xing]

That's because you play druid... if you were to play warlock or fvs or anything other than druid or alchemist you would want to get stronger too...

Having played DDO since the days you needed sigils to advance your level, pure shifter druid is by far my favourite play style. It's not the best DPS (casters are bad at cap in general, but even among druids, a 3 sorc split will do more DPS) but it's enough. I don't have the highest DCs (look at Death titan's build, he's 5-6 points ahead) but it's enough. And 17/3 Soul/melee splits will be way better healers, but i get by.

It's the versatility of druid that i like, not the power.

Having said that, in my opinion, the game is too easy. No way should i be able to solo on R10 on any build - let alone do it for speed. R1 should be do-able by most players solo (not the fresh off the boat from korthos, they need to learn a bit first). R5 should be the domain of skilled players and R10 skilled groups. The difficulty in the Illithid invasion quests is good. A handful(?) of players have done 2-3(?) solo on R10

 

[Ped Xing]

Game easy at cap 12, you missed that mark by about 18 years.

You can argue fact if you’d like, but there’s a reason you admit to seeing a lot less casters. SSG should make some changes to bring casters back at end game for the folks that like to play casters. The game is fine for me, I like melee and ranged, and they’re in a great spot.

Casters are horrible at cap where we play Gunga, absolutely. Ran a bunch of R10s last night and i was getting 3-4x kills per quest - melee were 10x more kills, easily.

But right now, outside of push raids, you and i can tear through any quest with our eyes closed? Outside of your company, it's boring. Give casters more power and then what?

Game difficulty needs adjusted - power creep has outpaced it over the last few years big time!

And a caveat - i LIKE that melee do well in r10 - i'm not suggesting they need nerfed - the game needs nerfed!

 

[Guntango]

Casters are horrible at cap where we play Gunga, absolutely. Ran a bunch of R10s last night and i was getting 3-4x kills per quest - melee were 10x more kills, easily.

But right now, outside of push raids, you and i can tear through any quest with our eyes closed? Outside of your company, it's boring. Give casters more power and then what?

Game difficulty needs adjusted - power creep has outpaced it over the last few years big time!

And a caveat - i LIKE that melee do well in r10 - i'm not suggesting they need nerfed - the game needs nerfed!

No, my man. Making the game more difficult just means you get zero kills.

That’s your answer for fixing casters?

Go solo one of the new legendary quests in 2 minutes, then we can talk about game difficulty.

 

[Ped Xing]

No, my man. Making the game more difficult just means you get zero kills.

That’s your answer for fixing casters?

Go solo one of the new legendary quests in 2 minutes, then we can talk about game difficulty.

No, i'm not saying make the game harder and leave the balance the same. Casters are horrible at end game - i'm not going to argue that. As far as im concerned, it's a fact.

I'm saying the whole damn game is (IMO) too easy and needs to be made harder and do a class balance pass - telling me to go solo 1 of the 4 quests that are well balanced (IMO) doesn't solve the issue.

 

[Unuys]

No, i'm not saying make the game harder and leave the balance the same. Casters are horrible at end game - i'm not going to argue that. As far as im concerned, it's a fact.

I'm saying the whole damn game is (IMO) too easy and needs to be made harder and do a class balance pass - telling me to go solo 1 of the 4 quests that are well balanced (IMO) doesn't solve the issue.

Dude I am telling you it's the class you play that makes you say "the game is too easy". Just do 1, only 1 solo of any legendary quest on r10 on a warlock and then come back and say that the game is too easy. You seem very delusional blinded by a strong class.

 

[Guntango]

No, i'm not saying make the game harder and leave the balance the same. Casters are horrible at end game - i'm not going to argue that. As far as im concerned, it's a fact.

I'm saying the whole damn game is (IMO) too easy and needs to be made harder and do a class balance pass - telling me to go solo 1 of the 4 quests that are well balanced (IMO) doesn't solve the issue.

Those four quests are only well-balanced for you because you're in the top 10% on a subpar build.

This is the fix nukers thread and I see you're on board, so that's helpful for this thread. If you want to start a make the game more challenging thread, starting a new thread is free...

 

[Unuys]

Having played DDO since the days you needed sigils to advance your level, pure shifter druid is by far my favourite play style. It's not the best DPS (casters are bad at cap in general, but even among druids, a 3 sorc split will do more DPS) but it's enough. I don't have the highest DCs (look at Death titan's build, he's 5-6 points ahead) but it's enough. And 17/3 Soul/melee splits will be way better healers, but i get by.

It's the versatility of druid that i like, not the power.

Having said that, in my opinion, the game is too easy. No way should i be able to solo on R10 on any build - let alone do it for speed. R1 should be do-able by most players solo (not the fresh off the boat from korthos, they need to learn a bit first). R5 should be the domain of skilled players and R10 skilled groups. The difficulty in the Illithid invasion quests is good. A handful(?) of players have done 2-3(?) solo on R10

Druid is a broken class with bugged MCL and bugged spells that need minimum investment to be good. Tsunami and Ice Flowers both have NO save they ALWAYS do full dmg, and Druids get more MCL from their tree than they should. So yes, you are playing a broken bugged class and say the game is too easy, who would have figured.

 

[Tilomere]

I don't raid that much. I raid exclusively through PUG's and I have been in LH raids that have failed lately. I play a Warlock with over 100 past lives (in other words, a total deadbeat that essentially pikes raids because I have no way of designing my robe wearing, magic using Warlock to be a worthwhile contribution in any raid that requires serious DPS).

Does fiend not proc magma scaling with 150% spell power on Enervating Shadow?

I noticed it didn't with other fire based abilities like Ki attacks and chaos multi-element attacks. Basically whether dripping with magma scales with or without spell power based on the fire spells in question seems to determines if the caster has sustainable raid dps with low mana spells for a sizable duration..

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Game too easy at cap 12, you missed that mark by about 18 years.

You can argue fact if you’d like, but there’s a reason you admit to seeing a lot less casters. SSG should make some changes to bring casters back at end game for the folks that like to play casters. The game is fine for me, I like melee and ranged, and they’re in a great spot.

I think, if it's true that there are a lot less casters being played, then that is a metric the Devs may look at. ?

I'm far from convinced that's the case though, and if you look at the distribution by class across servers from DDO Audit, it looks more like Alch, FVS, and Monk are clearly the most underrepresented classes.

I'm not claiming that as gospel, as the provenance of the data may be subject to nuances, but on the face of it, this seems a more general "fact" than the sort of pretty unrepresentative/subjective stuff relating to R10 solos and push raids, etc., cited as "evidence" which really is the thin end of the wedge.

Whether or not we can take that distribution as wholly accurate is open to question of course, but I do think that this is the sort of data the Devs will look at when it comes to balancing things, if perhaps with greater access to data.

If that's the case then there really isn't much to complain about - the caster population shows little sign of ill health, and there is no reason to rebalance the population on that basis. I think the Devs would have to see a significant drop off in caster classes in game for them to pay attention, and that doesn't seem to be the case. ?

 

[Guntango]

I think, if it's true that there are a lot less casters being played, then that is a metric the Devs may look at. ?

I'm far from convinced that's the case though, and if you look at the distribution by class across servers from DDO Audit, it looks more like Alch, FVS, and Monk are clearly the most underrepresented classes.

I'm not claiming that as gospel, as the provenance of the data may be subject to nuances, but on the face of it, this seems a more general "fact" than the sort of pretty unrepresentative/subjective stuff relating to R10 solos and push raids, etc., cited as "evidence" which really is the thin end of the wedge.

Whether or not we can take that distribution as wholly accurate is open to question of course, but I do think that this is the sort of data the Devs will look at when it comes to balancing things, if perhaps with greater access to data.

If that's the case then there really isn't much to complain about - the caster population shows little sign of ill health, and there is no reason to rebalance the population on that basis. I think the Devs would have to see a significant drop off in caster classes in game for them to pay attention, and that doesn't seem to be the case. ?

Speak of what you know, I guess. There are very few efficient nukers at end game. SSG should look at it, but it doesn't affect me. I like melee and ranged, and they're in a great spot.

 

[rabidfox]

Does fiend not proc magma scaling with 150% spell power on Enervating Shadow?

I noticed it didn't with other fire based abilities like Ki attacks and chaos multi-element attacks. Basically whether dripping with magma scales with or without spell power based on the fire spells in question seems to determines if the caster has sustainable raid dps with low mana spells for a sizable duration..

Magma scales off spell power. Warlock blasts scale off spell power with bonus scaler for single target blasts. Spell power itself is never changed by swapping to single target mode so magma's doesn't gain extra value. Also Magma is gimmick bandaid given that only 1 pact type would be able to even take advantage of it effectively.

To fix warlocks (for me), their floor is great; they're simple to play on easy difficulties. Their ceiling is bad and runs into issues. The issues are complex but can be simplified for a few things that would drastically improve them and make them effective for their roles.
1) increase the damage on the single target blasts from 125%/150% to 175%/200%.
2) Replace TS's core 18 +10% blast attack speed that has never worked. Do some kind of a stacking DOT (a la magma) but for every pact damage type or just make it evil damage (single target application, 1s ICD or whatever ICD would align so every blast hit applied 1 stack). So they ramp up on boss fights without becoming too burst heavy.
3) Make the single target attacks be able to land. The tracking on them is horrible. They need way faster travel speed, better tracking, and need to pass thru mobs to the target like precise shot.

There's other stuff, but those 3 would give them a better place in harder content without making them brokenly strong in easier content.

 

[I dont Like gimps]

Speak of what you know, I guess. There are very few efficient nukers at end game. SSG should look at it, but it doesn't affect me. I like melee and ranged, and they're in a great spot.

frankly they in a bit of a too good spot Imo atleast ranged Im totally fine with Melee cracking skulls cuz No "kite defenses"
but some ranged builds come quiet close to THF melee times or even surpass them depending on the quest
"fatesinger Epic strike 4 sec cd 1shotting non helpless mobs"

but on the other hand if it Lags its much more worse for ranged than melee when it comes to hits counting so Idk ):

 

[Komrad]

Druid is a broken class with bugged MCL and bugged spells that need minimum investment to be good. Tsunami and Ice Flowers both have NO save they ALWAYS do full dmg, and Druids get more MCL from their tree than they should. So yes, you are playing a broken bugged class and say the game is too easy, who would have figured.

Druid nukers are 1/4 of DPS they used to have. Last batch of CL and Dragonbreath nerfs really broke the camel's back.
Its absolutely not enjoyable to bring them in R10s anymore. Unless you really like playing weird off-DPS, off-CC, off-healer build then all the more power to you. I, myself, TR'd into a THF Barb despite all the best caster gear it had.

Fyi, Ice Flowers was never OP and they nerfed Tsunami ages ago, long before R7-R10 reductions. Not even maxxing helpless damage helps.
Other nukers are a joke.

Play DC Sorc or else.

 

[Anurakh]

Currently high reaper quests (and raids, of course) have an abundance of melees. Taking for example this weekend that I played with my druid caster, in most of the quests I was the only caster in a group of five melees. One melee was leaving, another took his place. In a few quests another druid joined, but for almost the entire questing I was the only caster in the group. And this is a trend that I have been seeing for some time.

And playing a druid caster is definitely not enjoyable in these circumstances. Everyone expects the druid to be the healer. I don't mind healing, but now with so much melee it seems like it's the only thing I have to do. And if I wanted to play a healer, I would be playing cleric or fvs. It's not fun. DPS is too low now and it seems like everyone just sees me as a heal bot. To make matters worse, I'm seeing the return of some overbearing attitudes when the druid is slow at healing. I hope people remember that those attitudes were what created a chronic shortage of healers 10 years ago.

No. I have decided not to play my druid caster in groups anymore. I'm tired. I'll wait for the devs to reconsider and undo the disastrous "balance" they made last time.

 

[Anurakh]

Play DC Sorc or else.

DC caster builds have their own problems. They are generally terrible builds at soloing, due to the lack of dps essential to finishing quests and the fact that it is an unappreciated role in raids (at most, groups want a single DC caster in raids. And you just have to look at examples like the most recent raid, FOM, where even most of the trash is orange named and therefore not susceptible to IK.). And there are more and more mobs that are also immune to instantkills even in quests, and worse in raids..

Devs have broken all balance with their nerfs and the actual design, sorry.

 

[voenixa121]

DC caster builds have their own problems. They are generally terrible builds at soloing, due to the lack of dps essential to finishing quests and the fact that it is an unappreciated role in raids (at most, groups want a single DC caster in raids. And you just have to look at examples like the most recent raid, FOM, where even most of the trash is orange named and therefore not susceptible to IK.). And there are more and more mobs that are also immune to instantkills even in quests, and worse in raids..

Devs have broken all balance with their nerfs and the actual design, sorry.

Epic/Legendary Ward needs to go. I know this thread is about nukers, but it's the truth. They really designed themselves into a corner over the years.

 

[Phoenicis]

Epic/Legendary Ward needs to go. I know this thread is about nukers, but it's the truth. They really designed themselves into a corner over the years.

Epic & Legendary wards need to be nerfed, not gotten rid of.

Epic wards need to fire at 10/20/30% on white/orange/red mobs.
Legendary should fire at 20/40/60% on white/orange/red mobs.

 

[Unuys]

Druid nukers are 1/4 of DPS they used to have. Last batch of CL and Dragonbreath nerfs really broke the camel's back.
Its absolutely not enjoyable to bring them in R10s anymore. Unless you really like playing weird off-DPS, off-CC, off-healer build then all the more power to you. I, myself, TR'd into a THF Barb despite all the best caster gear it had.

Fyi, Ice Flowers was never OP and they nerfed Tsunami ages ago, long before R7-R10 reductions. Not even maxxing helpless damage helps.
Other nukers are a joke.

Play DC Sorc or else.

I am the one who posted this thread if you forgot. I know druids and nukers in general are bad right now that's why I am literally posting about it, nontheless druid is the only nuker right now with fundamental bugs that benefit them like

1. their two main spells Tsunami and Iceflowers not having any saves on the damage
2. their tree giving more MCL than it should give.

So if someone plays druid and then says "ahh man the game is so easy I don't need more power pls no buffs" then it triggers me because you are literally abusing bugs

And yeah seems like you are just another one of the 90% of nukers that switched to melee after the nerfs and this is what this all is about. There are no effective nukers anymore

 

[Unuys]

Seems like devs want nukers to be a supporting class and it really shows. And it really sucks for every nuker main.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

If nukers are so bad that nobody plays them anymore then you'd expect to see evidence of that in the class population distribution. But sorcs locks and wizzys population seems pretty healthy in terms of numbers, and surely they can't all be DC now?

And if this is the post nerf effect then one wonders what that proportion might have been before? No wonder it got the Devs attention if that was the case.

Some folks may well have made the switch away from casters, but it might be worth pausing to think if that was the desired outcome?

Either way, on the face of it, there doesn't appear to be a dearth of casters playing the game compared to other styles/classes. ?