There is no good reason to hide the odds of a monetized system

[dozensnakes]

I'm not going to reiterate the points of, at this point dozens of threads asking about the loot system. SSG knows players want to know that information, its the most upvoted suggestion on the forum.

Regardless of if their reason, at the end of the day the system is monetized. Players are spending money for loot. Hiding the odds of getting items isn't an ethical way to do business.

 

[Owlbear]

According to EU law I think they even have to make the odds public because it's a lootbox system (shard rerolls) if they want their game to be available in EU. But then again I'm no lawyer or expert in those regulations.

 

[LeoLionxxx]

What I would love is for info and on named loot chances to be attached to the individual chests.

For example, we click a button on the chest and a modal pops up with info on what Loot tables the chest will roll on, what the odds of are of getting into subtables, and the names of the items it contains. Info would look something like this:

"Book Burning" End Chest

• Main Loot Table: 33%
  • Regular Loot Table: 80%
    • Solar Gem of Reflex (Legendary)
    • Solar Gem of Assassination (Legendary)
    • Lunar Gem of Swift Charging (Legendary)
    • Lunar Gem of Magical Protection (Legendary)
    • Legendary Boots of Fleet and Fortune
    • Legendary Buckler of the Fallen Age 
    • Legendary Docent of Moonlight
    • Legendary Goggles of the Archer
  • Rare Loot Table: 20%
    • Legendary Docent of the Crownblade
    • Legendary Buckler of the Golden Age
    • Legendary Robe of the Warblade
• Myth Drynor Weapon Table: 33%
  • Fallen Age Weapon Table: 80%
  • Golden Age Weapon Table: 20%

(The 20/80 here are just numbers I invented, put no sock in them)

Bonus points if we get to see the number rolled for each of the loot tables!

 

[Kimbere]

According to EU law I think they even have to make the odds public because it's a lootbox system (shard rerolls) if they want their game to be available in EU. But then again I'm no lawyer or expert in those regulations.

This point could get interesting in a few months.

Once the Moonsea server goes live, SSG/DDO will officially have a business presence in the EU and thus will need to abide by EU regulations.

Wait until then and report them to the proper group and see if they'll be forced to publish the rates.

 

[RobShow]

Are these rare loots, the items with the red border?

 

[PersonMan]

This point could get interesting in a few months.

Once the Moonsea server goes live, SSG will officially have a business presence in the EU and thus will need to abide by EU regulations.

Wait until then and report them to the proper group and see if they'll be forced to publish the rates.

It is wild that they are opening an EU server. Beyond just the need to publish drop rates, iirc they will be strictly responsible to make all digital goods actually work as advertised.

 

[Tádhg]

It's an interesting point to know the Netherlands considers "Lootboxes" as gambling and companies are required to have a gambling license for them. Whether or not they will tie the likes of the rolls in with lootboxes is another story and on top of that there is no obligation I know of for rates to be made public. I know there is a push in the EU to adopt a unified stance on gambling in online games and Belgium, who have banned them completely, are trying to get the rest of the EU to do the same.

 

[Vua]

There are probably any number of good reasons to hide the odds, we just don't like it.

 

[dozensnakes]

It is wild that they are opening an EU server. Beyond just the need to publish drop rates, iirc they will be strictly responsible to make all digital goods actually work as advertised.

That in particular gets interesting with treasure hunters elixirs because according to the description, they should increase mythic/reaper bonuses, which they don't.

Effect: You are Lucky! (Treasure Dice Rolls are increased by 15, making the chance of finding maximum effects on loot more likely. This only affects you, not your party members.)

 

[Smelt]

It's an interesting point to know the Netherlands considers "Lootboxes" as gambling and companies are required to have a gambling license for them. Whether or not they will tie the likes of the rolls in with lootboxes is another story and on top of that there is no obligation I know of for rates to be made public. I know there is a push in the EU to adopt a unified stance on gambling in online games and Belgium, who have banned them completely, are trying to get the rest of the EU to do the same.

If it considered gambling, and it is "against" a machine or AI the odds have to be displayed. That is why you see the win rates in tiny print somewhere on slot machines in pubs in there EU and UK and why the Lottery website has the odds of winning clearing marked below each of it's instant win games.

Now, the question hear is, can SSG argue that it isn't gambling because there is a prize every time. Maybe not the prize of a named item but a prize non the less.

 

[Tádhg]

I wasn't 100% sure if it was mandatory throughout EU, I know for a fact it is in Ireland even borderline gambling.

Having the information public would definitely be nice

 

[Necrodancer]

If it considered gambling, and it is "against" a machine or AI the odds have to be displayed. That is why you see the win rates in tiny print somewhere on slot machines in pubs in there EU and UK and why the Lottery website has the odds of winning clearing marked below each of it's instant win games.

Now, the question hear is, can SSG argue that it isn't gambling because there is a prize every time. Maybe not the prize of a named item but a prize non the less.

If that is the stance they'd use they would insta lose the moment they metaphorically stepped into the court. Case in point, battelfront 2 by Electronic Arts first trying to wiggle their way out of lootboxes definition with "surprise mechanic" and the fact that their lootboxes also guaranteed some sort of prize even if it was not the desired one.

We're talking about undisclosed percentage that data-mine showed to be in the single digit range if not lower. The most pathetic lawyer would have no issue linking this to feeding the AS purchase.

If this case was brought before the EU, SSG would be skinned alive and paraded around without mercy.

 

[danzig138]

That in particular gets interesting with treasure hunters elixirs because according to the description, they should increase mythic/reaper bonuses, which they don't.

Lol
You're misinterpreting that, chief.

 

[Gimp-1]

Sounds like solid reasons to never locate a server in the EU.

 

[Owlbear]

Sounds like solid reasons to never locate a server in the EU.

The server doesn't matter at all. It's publishing the game on the EU market that counts.

 

[Mechgraber]

Lol
You're misinterpreting that, chief.

"Effect: You are Lucky! (Treasure Dice Rolls are increased by 5/10/15, making the chance of finding maximum effects on loot more likely. This only affects you, not your party members.)"

Mythic or reaper bonuses could certainly be interpreted as "maximum effects on loot". They are effects. They are on loot. To a player, an item is maximized when it has those. Certainly it should be more detailed in what they actually do, on the item itself.

 

[Gimp-1]

The server doesn't matter at all. It's publishing the game on the EU market that counts.

I see that power in the DSA. IS this what you are referencing?

 

[dozensnakes]

Lol
You're misinterpreting that, chief.

Assume you were just going by the item's description, and lacked any knowledge of near decade old forum post on a depreciated forum, could someone reasonably conclude
1. Named items are considered loot
2. reaper/mythic bonuses were considered "effects"
3. This potion, by increasing the chance to find "effects" would increase the likelihood of finding those bonuses



To be clear, my position is that the description should be clarified, not that it should impact the chance of finding items with reaper/mythic bonuses

 

[Jasparius]

The server doesn't matter at all. It's publishing the game on the EU market that counts.

My guess is its easier to investigate and penalise a company with servers in Europe than servers in Panama or Tuvalu.

 

[LokiFrost]

This point could get interesting in a few months.

Once the Moonsea server goes live, SSG/DDO will officially have a business presence in the EU and thus will need to abide by EU regulations.

Wait until then and report them to the proper group and see if they'll be forced to publish the rates.

Snitches get stitches. lol