There's a lot of insecure people out there

[Bliv]

If you have to be selective as a leader to go through a raid on legendary hard (we all know which raid I'm talking about), it says a lot about your own level of play. Just saying.

(Alright, you got me: I'm going to TR my sorcerer into an easy button and play melee dps like most of you do. Not because I was underperforming on that sorcerer build, but because, apparently, figuring out how to properly play an out-of-meta character is too darn difficult.)

Freaking ridiculous.

 

[Vox]

HoX is hard man, sometimes you just need to get an edge

 

[Bliv]

HoX is hard man, sometimes you just need to get an edge

Hey, I can't slide a "laugh" emoji on your reply, otherwise I would have.

 

[Aeromach]

If you have to be selective as a leader to go through a raid on legendary hard (we all know which raid I'm talking about), it says a lot about your own level of play. Just saying.

Actually, I think it says more about the caliber of players that join raid PUGs. Very few know, or want to lead.
Of those who choose not to lead, many do not know how to follow.
Often you will have players who don't want to lead deciding for themselves how they will play; sometimes in disharmony with the group.
These are usually the same type of disruptive people who criticize leaders for not carrying them through a raid.

Not saying that is the case here, just that most of the time I would give the leader the benefit of the doubt.
And besides, so what if the leader is not Uber? Making decisions is pretty much central to what leading is about.

 

[Bliv]

I agree with everything you say, Aeromach.

I've led enough raids since I started playing this game to know all the ramifications of taking a pug group to victory.

But this no-caster situation has become tiresome.

It excludes good players who play casters from joining raids, and it prevents people who don’t know how to properly play out-of-meta characters from ever learning how to play them.

A lot of people are complaining about caster DPS. I disagree with all of them.

Yes, wizard is in a sorry state. But if SSG buffs sorc DPS, a lot of folks will start crying nonsense.

I was not being carried in any way on my sorc.

I was not underperforming in any way on my sorc.

Perceptions have got to change. This has become silly beyond reason.

 

[Hobgoblin]

i thought it was odd to both be selective and know the raid.

 

[Fhrek]

But this no-caster situation has become tiresome.

Yes, it is!

I used to lead raids, even trying them solo to learn all the ins and outs. But, since I switch my main from DPS/Tank hybrid for a Warlock blaster to get racials faster, I just gave up on raiding.

The raid scene has became very very caster unfriendly. It is a shame.

 

[Bjond]

(we all know which raid I'm talking about)

Eh, I'll bite: which raid?

Kinda out of touch with other's raids. Our guild will take anyone that thinks they can do it on a semi-pug run for raids.

 

[Driaza]

I think most current end game raids are at the 1 caster only stage

 

[DBZ]

If you have to be selective as a leader to go through a raid on legendary hard (we all know which raid I'm talking about), it says a lot about your own level of play. Just saying.

(Alright, you got me: I'm going to TR my sorcerer into an easy button and play melee dps like most of you do. Not because I was underperforming on that sorcerer build, but because, apparently, figuring out how to properly play an out-of-meta character is too darn difficult.)

Freaking ridiculous.

BLAME SSG ITS THERE FAULT

 

[Bliv]

BLAME SSG ITS THERE FAULT

It is not.

Not this once.

 

[Bliv]

Eh, I'll bite: which raid?

Kinda out of touch with other's raids. Our guild will take anyone that thinks they can do it on a semi-pug run for raids.

Threat Old and New.

But, as Driaza is pointing out, it is not the only one. Just the most obvious.

 

[J1NG]

Oh, I don't even mind not being wanted in a group, that's the Party Leaders responsibility and choice after all, but I've always detested players who can't even bother to press the Decline button. Like, why? Why waste my time like that?

J1NG

 

[DBZ]

It is not.

Not this once.

Yeah it is there not wanted in slogs for those reasons unknown

Symptom not the cause

 

[Wizard]

I think is IS SSG's fault for not doing game balance properly. I think DDO is the only MMO where caster dps is much lower than weapon dps.
So when some classes underperform they get invited less often to PUGs, which is very unfair.

 

[Qrvar]

Nothing new - it's the same like when some people did the "you have to have X minimum HP to join", forcing people who want to pug to pump HP (and pike) instead of building useful / balanced toons.

 

[Skulz]

In most raids, limiting casters is preferable for a smoother, faster run. The same logic applies to healers: you might bring just one, since that frees up an extra DPS slot. Even better, get a bard that can buff and heal. CC? You don't really neeed CC in most raids, especially at R1. This is especially important in PUGs, where you often don’t know whether the DPS joining are properly geared and/or just running random builds.

I run raids often, I explain to newcomers what to do, tell the party how to beahave in each part even if many know that already, split roles, and often I must do myself boring things like All the jumps and the talk in Skelly, because those who die have no legs most of the time.

People who join the raids are happy beause they know we won't fail and the run will be smoother and faster than elsewhere. Many PM for a spot in advance. As we are fast with so much dps, we can run several raids in a row in a few hours: if possible, during the weekend I try to run pretty much all the raids in the game. Casters? They are limited to 1, max 2, even 0 if we have a lot of dps joining. Yes, also at R1. (LH for ToN and DoV).

If you don’t like this approach, that’s fine: just make your own raid groups and invite whoever you want. That’s your choice. Complaining about how others choose to run their raids won’t help at all. Raid leaders are not there to make charity work. After a work week, I want my raids to be smooth, and for the participants to have a good time. DDO is a game, and in every game there is a meta.

Oh, I don't even mind not being wanted in a group, that's the Party Leaders responsibility and choice after all, but I've always detested players who can't even bother to press the Decline button. Like, why? Why waste my time like that?

J1NG

If you are a caster, I do that too. If during the filling process the main roles are covered, and I know the dps is enough, I just accept a couple of casters from the LFM, so first comes first served. If you want to be declined asap, you will never have a chance to enter. If you are not a caster, I usually decline explaining we already have that role covered.

 

[Qrvar]

In most raids, limiting casters is preferable for a smoother, faster run. The same logic applies to healers: you might bring just one, since that frees up an extra DPS slot. Even better, get a bard that can buff and heal. CC? You don't really neeed CC in most raids, especially at R1. This is especially important in PUGs, where you often don’t know whether the DPS joining are properly geared and/or just running random builds.

I've always wondered, how does that process work? Does the class icon automatically put you on the waiting list? It's not like a divine in DDO couldn't be a melee dps or caster rather than just healer, for example.

 

[Lazuli]

I agree, however, this isn't a problem with guild leaders, but with raid design. The devs should be aware that their raids actively exclude casters. Raids're designed with many anti-magic measures, meant to be resolved exclusively through sustained DPS (aka, DPS from weapons).

Don't blame the players. This is very bad raid design.

It's true that there are very competent casters, but raids actively favor weapon mechanics, and you never know the quality of the toons you're picking up in a pug. From my own experience, it's much easier to end a raid with a lot of mediocre weapon users than with a lot of mediocre casters. It's a reality I hate, but it's a reality.

The solution has to come from SSG with better raid design.

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/devs-raid-design-and-caster-inclusion.22635/

 

[Skulz]

I've always wondered, how does that process work? Does the class icon automatically put you on the waiting list? It's not like a divine in DDO couldn't be a melee dps or caster rather than just healer, for example.

Pure Sorcerers, Wizards, and Warlocks are the only ones automatically placed on the waiting list. For hybrid builds, I just ask. Sometimes there are pure arcane casters who play melee, but in those cases, they are the ones who PM me. Of course, if there’s only one spot and both a Barbarian/Fighter/Monk etc. and a melee Wizard apply, the former has priority.

It’s usually easy to identify Inquis Fvs (so many these days) and melee Clerics from their builds, or I just ask if I’m unsure.

For Druids and Alchemists, I tend to ask as well, especially since some of them can serve as main or off-healers.