This is not ok

[FaustianBargain]

The only winning move is to quit playing predatory gambling games like DDO.

So I don’t like the reroll mechanic at all - it’s replete with cautionary tales like the one leading off that make it clear that it’s just not worth it. But in a game filled with optional actions chest rerolls are just about the most optional thing of them all. The Internet is powered by hyperbole, but man, calling a completely optional action that people use of their own volition because of impatience or similar motivations ‘predatory’ is something.

 

[Bobbryan2]

Actually, I didn't ask, someone else did.

Where we are in 'Merica is there IS no law requiring the release of odds for loot rolls in digital games. At least, based on this reference (individual states may, but it may or may not stand up in court if challenged).

SSG and it's parent companies would be blindingly stupid not to pay lawyers to study the laws in the places they operate to see if they had any legal vulnerabilities.

And, since they haven't straight out published the drop rates, I'm guessing the lawyers have come to the conclusion that there is no exposure for SSG, or the parent companies.

My point? I think some (alot of?) people are tilting at windmills.

You assume more corporate competence than I think is necessarily true. You're assuming lawyers are doing appeals-level research before there's even a complaint is wild. Everything costs money. People aren't researching this stuff in their non-billable hours.

 

[Konsumer]

Actually, I didn't ask, someone else did.

Where we are in 'Merica is there IS no law requiring the release of odds for loot rolls in digital games. At least, based on this reference (individual states may, but it may or may not stand up in court if challenged).

SSG and it's parent companies would be blindingly stupid not to pay lawyers to study the laws in the places they operate to see if they had any legal vulnerabilities.

And, since they haven't straight out published the drop rates, I'm guessing the lawyers have come to the conclusion that there is no exposure for SSG, or the parent companies.

My point? I think some (alot of?) people are tilting at windmills.

you're right. you didn't ask. my apologies.

 

[misterski]

In practice... you realize that this fundamentally means the game is financed on the backs of degenerate gamblers.
Like.... I'm all for arguing this pure nihilistic free will and all that, but let's just remember the broader picture.

Do you know the research on the % of players that pay the biggest % of mobile games?

It's not a really pretty picture.
I don't think it's like that in this game. But it's worthwhile to avoid becoming that dystopia as well, by being wide-eyed about the eventual outcome.

What part of "I would much rather they remove rerolling for shards" did you not understand? I do know what it is, but in the end people decide to gamble or not. The only way to stop it is to either vote with your wallet (heh) or to have some self control. Ever since SSG got gobbled up by a bigger corp (and then they got gobbled up by an ever bigger corp) stuff like this has gotten worse. They have revenue targets to meet for the big corp every quarter (and the big corp has to meet every quarter..yaddayadda) and that's that. That's why this and rare loot are here to stay.

 

[5 Other People]

wow, 6 pages and we are on day 1 of this thread!

so, I um, totally hate re-rolls and agree with OP, see my signature.

We are only one or two weeks away from knowing where SSG is landing on rares and loot tables. I hope they will reduce the size of tables from (4 named + 3 rares) to (4 named + 1 rare) & I hope they will let that one rare have the chances that all 3 rares had before...hope is a bastard.

Based on this thread and the literally thousands of posts on this topic, change is coming either from SSG or from player revolt by not buying the next expansion. Easy way to see the length of loot tables will be to take total loot from Lamannia and divide by total quests.

Also, don't feed the trolls.

 

[Guntango]

A friend farmed an item out of MD. He spent over a thousand shards on rerolls before he finally got it.
He gave his build gear list to another friend who wanted to use the same build.
The other friend went to farm the same item and got it on his 3rd roll.
I have personally been farming some gloves, and so far I've spent 800 shards on rerolls. Most times I invest 45 or 60 shards on rerolls and get nothing in return. Nothing.
A pack of 1,000 shards costs 5,395 ddo points. Unless you already have 400 DDO points, you can't get 5395 in the $35 package. You have to spend $60.

Listen. This is tantamount to robbery. It's like a damn slot machine. You spend real money and there's no guarantee you'll get anything at all except fleeced for your money.
I know some will say "just don't use rerolls". Nonetheless, the option is there. It's not fair, likely illegal, and hella exploitative.
At the least, we should be guaranteed a named item for a reroll. Even if it's not the one we want. But walking away empty handed after spending so much money for one item is not ok. Then watching someone get it basically for free after you spent a fortune is just disrespectful.
This is not a casino. It's a video game.

Just block the person who pulled it on his 3rd roll. Problem solved.

 

[Vua]

Too much to read today. We've known about the rare loot for 9 months. If you're dumb enough to use 1000 shards to roll for an item with something like a 1 in 800 chance of getting it, you deserve to be ripped off. This didn't just happen, we've known for almost a year now. I hate the rare loot, but you choose to spend your money rolling for it.

 

[dejvid]

gacha games at least have the decency to give you pity.

 

[Frieling Slyhand]

Actually, I didn't ask, someone else did.

Where we are in 'Merica is there IS no law requiring the release of odds for loot rolls in digital games. At least, based on this reference (individual states may, but it may or may not stand up in court if challenged).

SSG and it's parent companies would be blindingly stupid not to pay lawyers to study the laws in the places they operate to see if they had any legal vulnerabilities.

And, since they haven't straight out published the drop rates, I'm guessing the lawyers have come to the conclusion that there is no exposure for SSG, or the parent companies.

My point? I think some (alot of?) people are tilting at windmills.

SSG can’t fix bugs from ten years ago and puts out new content without proper quality control testing. Do you really think they have hired the best lawyers to do a proper legal analysis of this?

 

[norriskwondo]

A friend farmed an item out of MD. He spent over a thousand shards on rerolls before he finally got it.
He gave his build gear list to another friend who wanted to use the same build.
The other friend went to farm the same item and got it on his 3rd roll.
I have personally been farming some gloves, and so far I've spent 800 shards on rerolls. Most times I invest 45 or 60 shards on rerolls and get nothing in return. Nothing.
A pack of 1,000 shards costs 5,395 ddo points. Unless you already have 400 DDO points, you can't get 5395 in the $35 package. You have to spend $60.

Listen. This is tantamount to robbery. It's like a damn slot machine. You spend real money and there's no guarantee you'll get anything at all except fleeced for your money.
I know some will say "just don't use rerolls". Nonetheless, the option is there. It's not fair, likely illegal, and hella exploitative.
At the least, we should be guaranteed a named item for a reroll. Even if it's not the one we want. But walking away empty handed after spending so much money for one item is not ok. Then watching someone get it basically for free after you spent a fortune is just disrespectful.
This is not a casino. It's a video game.

And this is why I'm not farming named loot, and just craft. It's a lesser choice, yes, but I know I'll get without lossing all that time and resources.

 

[MrBill]

Without SSG posting loot tables, named items and drop rates, chest rerolls are a predatory scam that show a lack of ethics on their part (IMO ofc).

This has been mentioned a lot over the past years. The only way SSG will stop this practice is if players stop rerolling and the $$ pipeline dries up. If one disagrees with the current drop rates and reroll practice they should share this with group members to help stop the wasted $ that encourages SSG and their parent companies.

Even if they posted the loot tables, without any type of regulation, there is no proof that the RNG is not manipulated in the coding. After all real money is involved so the temptation to tilt the the odds in the house's favor casts doubt on the whole process.

 

[Kimbere]

The forums have been littered with threads outlining how terrible the stats and chances are to get the rare MD items since shortly after MD went live. It's public knowledge unless you've been living under a rock for the past 6 months or just recently returned to the game from a long break.

It's simple problem with a simple solution. If SSG didn't make a bunch of extra money from the rare loot scheme or better yet, lost enough customers to get noticed on their quarterly metrics, they'd stop it. They haven't stopped it, so we have to assume it was profitable.

At this point, I struggle to feel bad for anyone who complains about spending mass shards for rerolls on MD loot and coming up short.

At a minimum, I think anyone who's constantly rerolling at this point is just a sucker. I feel a small bit of animosity towards the people who are still rerolling because they're the ones incentivizing SSG to continue using this predatory mechanic.

Don't complain when you're contributing to perpetuation of the problem.

 

[Konsumer]

The forums have been littered with threads outlining how terrible the stats and chances are to get the rare MD items since shortly after MD went live. It's public knowledge unless you've been living under a rock for the past 6 months or just recently returned to the game from a long break.

It's simple problem with a simple solution. If SSG didn't make a bunch of extra money from the rare loot scheme or better yet, lost enough customers to get noticed on their quarterly metrics, they'd stop it. They haven't stopped it, so we have to assume it was profitable.

At a minimum, I think anyone who's constantly rerolling is just a sucker. Mainly though, I feel a small bit of animosity towards the people who are still rerolling because they're the ones that are incentivizing SSG to continue using this predatory mechanic.

So at this point, I struggle to feel bad for anyone who posts complaints spending mass shards for rerolls on MD loot. Don't complain when you're contributing to perpetuation of the problem.

Like many, I sold a cleansing card and got enough shards to be somewhat wasteful. I think my friend had done the same. Otherwise, I wouldn't and don't spend excessive amounts of money on shards. Or anything else I feel is being offered for unreasonable prices.

 

[Vua]

Like many, I sold a cleansing card and got enough shards to be somewhat wasteful. I think my friend had done the same. Otherwise, I wouldn't and don't spend excessive amounts of money on shards. Or anything else I feel is being offered for unreasonable prices.

You've been around. I have the same experience. Sold a cleanser and pissed it away. But it's my fault. I did it. I know the odds. Though I wasn't really rolling for rares. Only during the anniversary buff and that was limited. I did well those 2 weeks without rerolling.

 

[eartheyes]

Like many, I sold a cleansing card and got enough shards to be somewhat wasteful. I think my friend had done the same. Otherwise, I wouldn't and don't spend excessive amounts of money on shards. Or anything else I feel is being offered for unreasonable prices.

Maybe the loot gods saw that you sold the card and dried up on your drops

 

[Kimbere]

Like many, I sold a cleansing card and got enough shards to be somewhat wasteful. I think my friend had done the same. Otherwise, I wouldn't and don't spend excessive amounts of money on shards. Or anything else I feel is being offered for unreasonable prices.

There's still an opportunity cost for wasting the shards rerolls with the worst odds in the game even if you didn't pay actual $$ for them.

 

[Blunt Hackett]

So I don’t like the reroll mechanic at all - it’s replete with cautionary tales like the one leading off that make it clear that it’s just not worth it. But in a game filled with optional actions chest rerolls are just about the most optional thing of them all. The Internet is powered by hyperbole, but man, calling a completely optional action that people use of their own volition because of impatience or similar motivations ‘predatory’ is something.

Yet here we are on page 7 of one of many threads discussing how unethical and exploitative the loot and AS system is. Isn't this the very thing we're discussing over and over? Any good dictionary will tell you that's one of the definitions of predatory.

 

[nix]

there is not one thing in this game worth 1K shards. I feel no sympathy. sorry.

As an old friend used to say, "i'd love to disagree with you but i can't"

 

[intravenous]

As an old friend used to say, "i'd love to disagree with you but i can't"

well, curse cleansing cards sell for >1k shards on my server

 

[nix]

I'll let you know *if* i should ever find one ... don't hold your breath