Tips and tricks for melee rogue - VKF vs Assassin, Post your best practices here

SecretPhiarlanMan

Well-known member
Wanting to do more Elite and R1 at even CR, I went back to VKF till 20. Currently 17. Definitely finding both are viable, as was discussed in the thread, though I've never used VKF much in the past. I feel like I made my leveling harder by choosing to try to be assassin as much as possible, as a soloist with a hireling.

I'm leaning towards Divine Crusader at 20, just because I want to unlock the +20 law dice. Probably not TR'ing him again. He's got about 6 heroics and 3 epic pl's. I don't really need more than that for my purposes.

Anything other than DC and shadowdancer you guys find go good with VKF or Assassin?
 

Blerkington

Well-known member
FOTW has quick cutter, a very good epic strike low down, and primal scream.

If you have enough points the stat bonus from primal scream will boost your assassination DC by 2 (if you are a dex build) and gives you a strong heal effect every 30 sec.

It can also be used while stealthed but be careful of using it near monsters because it does damage and they can also hear it even if outside the AOE.

PS; primal scream also does not break invisibility.
 
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saekee

long live ROGUE
I use Unyielding Sentinel as my third tree for healing and a backup epic strike (guard up) for temp hp in a gazillion situations—jumping through trapped areas, pernicious DoTs, long rednamed fights in which (probably solo) I got aggro, and more. I do not use Coccoon; that tree, unlike US, does not have the HP and melee power.
 

VinoeWhines

Well-known member
You can assassinate two targets if you are two-weapon fighting as well. If monsters are properly grouped up, you can even manage a triple assassination (very rare to have the chance).
This was True at one time, thus going TWF for this reason.
Unless something has changed very recently, it's not possible to hit a third target with assassination. It was once but that was removed a long time ago.
You are right they removed that ability for offhand to even assassinate once.
I seem to remember about 10 years ago you could assassinate 4 targets... idk might be the smoke from the Canadian wildfires wreaking havoc on my mind....
Yes you remember correctly as I use to rarely Assassinate 4 mobs, when I bunched them together but very rare(like the chance of Vorpaling twice back to back).
Otherwise Three mobs was a slight common norm, if you aligned yourself and movement right.
Getting Two was a conciliatory prize.
If you got One, that was a Participation Trophy.


Then to even try to work in StrikeThrough (per description), as it made the most sense, I went Two Handed Fighting Quarterstaff Assassin and raised my StrikeThrough to around 300+% and went into Meridia slayer and "snuck" dropped, off the hill, going Right in direction, as I Swung (assassinate) on the low level group of Rats(about 4 or 5) and only assassinated 2 with the Staff and high StrikeThrough.
Did this multiple times(in different scenarios), to see if StrikeThrough would work with Assassinate and that doesn't either.

So in summary:

Lost offhand Assassinate
Lost Vorpal any weapon on 20
Lost Mechanical Dog companion
Lost Rise of the Phoenix in Cheat Death
Lost Trap Making CC/Strategic play above Elite
Lost Shadow Dancer Epic Destiny Tree to a Magoos Class

Other than that you can still Bluff Pull mobs(you can raise skill/swap Bluff/Charisma item) away from packs to single them out, Blind them and get sneak damage.

I would highly recommend crafting at least 2 or 3 Shadowscale Outfits/Robes(Thunder Forged) as was mentioned, for Shadow Phase clickies:
  • It helps not draw attention in Boss Fights(with Boss and Henchmen), if you build -Threat Reduction in Groups
  • Allows you to Pass Through Enemies in case Cornered or occasional "stuck" in game and need to vacate
  • You can unlock Doors/Chests/Levers (as long as you remain still) with a better chance of being undetected
  • While grabbing Soul Stones(pair it with Shadow Walk scrolls for 50% built Displacement and Speed Boost), Uncanny Dodge helps here also
 

saekee

long live ROGUE
Unfortunately INT on Rogue is going the way of the dodo bird....
From filigree support to gear and weapons.
So true…Primal scream and Tenser’s alone add +8 to Dex over Int.
There are few reasons maybe to go Int: 1) More reliable trance out of Harper 2) you plan to ER sometimes into a Trickster and do not want to redo your whole gearset 3) not sure if AP is there but improved traps out of mechanic (very slow playstyle…)
 

SecretPhiarlanMan

Well-known member
I went int for a change of pace. Last three lives were dex based builds and classes.

I'm hesitant to TR because I get a lot of loot this life, but if I do, I'll probably go dex based.
 

SecretPhiarlanMan

Well-known member
I'm getting drops I've never seen before, and ever TR has its own custom loot seed for your character. I do want to go back to Dex based but.... idk.

I'm one TR away from another racial AP. It's hard to decide.
 

SecretPhiarlanMan

Well-known member
Ended up killing the TR desire by using the points I grinded yesterday for 20 shards, and specced out of improved critical piercing to improved critical slashing, and equipped my epic midnight greetings dualies.

It made my build feel a lot better. No more TRs unless I randomly want to change his race, but yesterday he got something in RL I've never seen before, in 10 or so years of playing RL. I wish there was more in depth coverage of loot seeds and how they work. But I suspect if there were, people would try to game the system.

Anyway he's almost 22 now and doing great. If anything, I might epic TR him, because he only has 4 epic PL's.
 

Blerkington

Well-known member
Epic reincarnation adds quite a lot of survivability, which is really useful for a squishy class like rogue. You can probably get three or even four epic past lives in by making good use of first time bonuses, saga rewards and slayer xp.

It will also be good to start work on your sentient weapon so make sure you do Into the Mists early on and get both a weapon and a jewel from the NPC on the path leading from the wilderness entrance heading into town.
 

VinoeWhines

Well-known member
Ended up killing the TR desire by using the points I grinded yesterday for 20 shards, and specced out of improved critical piercing to improved critical slashing, and equipped my epic midnight greetings dualies.
The nice thing about the Midnight Greetings is that they have Improved Deception on it, that paired with Improved Deception on gear, helps as that is what I use to use often. I believe they still stack for proc purposes.
 

SecretPhiarlanMan

Well-known member
Been a lot of stuff going on IRL so I've been scatter brained. I finally unlocked shadar kai, and couldn't resist, so I tr'd him into an SK. Wow, these guys are nice. I get why they're considered the meta for assassin builds.
 
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