Trying monk + druid (wildshape wolf) ?

[pame12]

So I would like to try a monk + wolf druid build. The main questions I had though was concerning how it would work, specifically with unarmed (handwrap) monk's two weapon fighting (off hand hit chance).
Would that even work? On the wiki it says

Combat Style bonus Feats (ex. Two Weapon Fighting) do not function in Animal or Magical Beast Form with the exception of Natural Fighting, Two Weapon Defense and Offhand Versatility.

So that means even two handed weapon fighting wouldn't work either if I was using quaterstaff? I don't quite understand this and was wondering if someone had tried this already.

 

[WielderofGigantus]

Wolves attack faster, so it acts similar to SWF, and Bears have strikethrough, so like THF. Whether you are dual-wielding, two-hander, or sword and board, doesn't matter in regards to how you attack in wild shape. The only point in having an off-hand weapon is whatever other bonuses it may give, or giving a shield bonus to AC if you're using a shield.

As a bear, you get extra ability score modifier to your damage if you use a two-hander with the Natural Fighting feat, but no advantage to wolves.

The weapon type does matter for feats/enhancements that require a weapon type, such as Swords to Plowshares, the Vistani tree, or Quick Strike from the Thief-Acrobat tree.

As for handwraps, I'm not sure if that adds any benefits to being a monk/druid in wild shape form.

 

[unbongwah]

Wildshapes 101:

• Wolves attack faster; bears get Strikethrough.
• 1H weapons get 1x STR modifier bonus to damage; 2H weapons get 1.5x STR modifier bonus to damage. Any stat-substitution effects like Falconry's Killer Instinct would carry over to Wildshapes.
• Natural Fighting feats are the only combat-style feats which apply to wolf or bear forms. They boost Melee Power, PRR, and doublestrike to both animals; additionally, bears get extra Strikethrough and (if using 2H weapons) higher damage modifier.
• The base damage and critical threat range of your Wildshape attacks is based on your equipped mainhand weapon. Offhand weapons / orbs / shields only contribute passive bonuses like Spellpower; you cannot attack with them. EDIT: you will also get the AC bonus from shield but Shield Mastery feats don't apply; not sure about Perfect Shield Mastery's AC bonus.
• Take feats which match the weapon you're wielding. Passive bonuses to weapon types from Enhancements - including Competence bonuses to critical threat range - will apply to your weapon; but some bonuses don't work in Wildshapes - usually those tied to specific combat styles. E.g., if you played a bard / druid, you cannot use Swashbuckling while Wildshaped (need to be SWF).
• Most but not all special attacks work while Wildshaped; unfortunately it can take some trial-n-error to figure out which ones. E.g., I think most special attacks from the monk trees work for a druid / monk wolf or bear as long as you're centered; but some abilities like Stunning Fist do not, even if you have handwraps equipped.
• While Rage of the Beast is not a de facto requirement, a lot of the DPS bonuses from Nature's Warrior and Nature's Protector are based on Rage. It's also why "barbearian" builds are so common. Rage would uncenter a monk / druid, though, so plan out your build accordingly if you go that route.

E.g., max-WIS monk 3 / druid 17 in Winter Wolf form using quarterstaves would get 1.5X WIS to damage with T5 Nature's Warrior (+30% attack speed etc.) + level 12 NW core (+1 crit multiplier) + T3 Henshin (WIS to hit / dmg / Trance).

 

[WielderofGigantus]

Wildshapes 101:

• Natural Fighting feats are the only combat-style feats which apply to wolf or bear forms. They boost MRR, PRR, and doublestrike to both animals; additionally, bears get extra Strikethrough and (if using 2H weapons) higher damage modifier.

Did you mean to say Melee Power, not MRR?

 

[unbongwah]

Did you mean to say Melee Power, not MRR?

Yes.

 

[Roper]

try the Builds thread? Srsly

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?forums/character-builds-and-classes.24/

 

[ChickenMobile]

As for handwraps, I'm not sure if that adds any benefits to being a monk/druid in wild shape form.

There are some. But yes, there is no offhand strike for handwraps in animal forms. I believe the 2H is added to balance this out though.

• More +[W] dice
  • Handwraps should benefit from the +[W] bonuses from Reinforced Fist (0.5-1.5[W]) items, Past Life: Disciple of the Fist (+0.5[W]) and Improved Martial Arts (+1[W])
    Note: to be sure test this if you can. Things might've changed in previous updates
  • Wild Shape w/ Bone Paws is another +1[W] monks normally don't get
• Higher damage from attribute
  • Handwraps count as a 2h weapon in wildshape. Thus, even if you are a wolf, benefit from the 1.5x base ability modifier to damage from Two Handed Fighting.
    Two Handed Fighting line of feats will not give any additional ability modifier scaling - only bears can get more with Natural Fighting feats.
  • Bows and crossbows also seem to count as a 2H weapon (looking at the character sheet's details section), but you can't fire them - obviously. Crossbows like to hang strangely at your side though

 

[Hakoist]

1. Most Druid innate attack DC are broken on non wisdom based builds, though it says str.
2. Monk 15% qstaff speed doesn’t work with wild shape. There is no advantage compared with falchion.
3. Going deep in the Druid trees, there are lots of power locked behind rage, making Druid works better with rage than centered.

I TR away from the druid dl mnk build quickly.

 

[ChickenMobile]

3. Going deep in the Druid trees, there are lots of power locked behind rage, making Druid works better with rage than centered.

You can still rage and be centered. It will just drop any monk stance - which sucks and kinda negates a big reason for monk tbh.
I would throw some Dragon Lord in the mix and pick up the Strength trance if not raging though.

Have a edited friend's build here called the 'Chainsaw bear' (2 monk/13 druid/5 dragon lord). Tested on Lamannia and did pretty well (killed 500k hp Kobold in 12s = ~40k dps)
Lawful Neutral Sharda-kai, Kukri (requires +1 lesser heart)
points: 41 VKF / 35 Dragon Lord / 6 Nature's Protector (defensive stance) or Ravager (Draconic Power Attack + tactic boosts)
feats (pretty standard): power attack + cleaves, natural fighting x3, improved & overwhelming critical, monk forms til Master, patience, perfect natural fighting

 

[Hakoist]

You can still rage and be centered. It will just drop any monk stance - which sucks and kinda negates a big reason for monk tbh.
I would throw some Dragon Lord in the mix and pick up the Strength trance if not raging though.

Have a edited friend's build here called the 'Chainsaw bear' (2 monk/13 druid/5 dragon lord). Tested on Lamannia and did pretty well (killed 500k hp Kobold in 12s = ~40k dps)
Lawful Neutral Sharda-kai, Kukri (requires +1 lesser heart)
points: 41 VKF / 35 Dragon Lord / 6 Nature's Protector (defensive stance) or Ravager (Draconic Power Attack + tactic boosts)
feats (pretty standard): power attack + cleaves, natural fighting x3, improved & overwhelming critical, monk forms til Master, patience, perfect natural fighting

41 VKF / 36 Dragon Lord is better on a 14Pal/5DL/1mnk with holy sword +1 threat range, or simply 15/5. The selling point of bear might just be the heal

 

[unbongwah]

E.g., max-WIS monk 3 / druid 17 in Winter Wolf form using quarterstaves

Forgot to post this over the weekend. OP hasn't been back yet so dunno if they're still interested but...enh, what the heck.

F2P Drunk Wolf
17/3 Druid/Monk
Lawful Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Druid. . . . . .6. Monk. . . . . .11. Druid . . . . .16. Druid
2. Druid. . . . . .7. Monk. . . . . .12. Druid . . . . .17. Druid
3. Druid. . . . . .8. Druid. . . . . 13. Druid. . . . . 18. Druid
4. Druid. . . . . .9. Druid. . . . . 14. Druid. . . . . 19. Druid
5. Monk. . . . . .10. Druid . . . . .15. Druid . . . . .20. Druid


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . 4: WIS
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .14 . . . 8: WIS
Constitution. . 14. . . .16 . . .12: WIS
Intelligence. . .8. . . . 8 . . .16: WIS
Wisdom. . . . . 18. . . .18 . . .20: WIS
Charisma. . . . .8. . . . 8 . . .24: WIS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: WIS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .32: WIS

Skills
. . . . . D. D. D. D. M .M. M .D .D .D .D .D .D .D .D .D .D .D .D .D
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5 .6. 7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. . . . 2 . . 2. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. . . . . . . 1. 1. 2. 2. 2. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spellcr . 4. 1. 1. 1. . . . . .4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Spot. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 13
Tumble. . . . . . . . 4 .4. 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .16. 4. 4. 4. 4 .4. 4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4 .4


Feats

.1. . . . : Quicken Spell
.1 Human. : Maximize Spell
.3. . . . : Natural Fighting
.5 Monk . : Precision
.6. . . . : Natural Fighting
.6 Monk . : Swords to Plowshares
.9. . . . : Natural Fighting
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15. . . . : Adept of Forms OR Empower Healing Spell
18. . . . : Master of Forms OR Empower Spell
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
22 Destiny: Perfect Natural Fighting
24 Epic . : Burst of Glacial Wrath
25 Destiny: Doublestrike OR Crush Weakness
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction OR Patience
28 Destiny: Arcane Warrior
30 Epic . : Eerie Aim
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Plane of Water
31 Destiny: Wild Force OR Embodiment of Law
33 Epic . : Intensify Spell OR Embolden Spell
34 Destiny: Titan's Blood

.7 Monk . : Path of Inevitable Dominion OR Path of Harmonious Balance

.2 Druid. : Wild Shape 1: Wolf
.8 Druid. : Wild Shape 1: Bear
11 Druid. : Wild Shape 2: Winter Wolf
14 Druid. : Wild Shape 2: Dire Bear
16 Druid. : Wild Shape 3: Water Elemental
20 Druid. : Wild Shape 3: Fire Elemental


Enhancements (Spent: 80 +0r +0u / Max: 80 +0r +0u AP)

Nature's Warrior (39 AP)

• Natural Adept, Nature's Senses, Nature's Bounty, A True Hunter
  1. Extra Wild Empathy III, Snapping Jaws III
  2. Flight III, Ghost Wolf
  3. Fight III, Prey on the Weak II, Ghost Wolf Pack, Essence of the Shrike II
  4. Fatal Harrier III, Four Legs Good, Ferocity III
  5. Alpha Strike III, Swift Hunter, Throat Rip, Jaws of Ice, Go for the Kill

Henshin Mystic (14 AP)

• Riddle of Fire, Ki Bolt
  1. Henshin Training, Animal Forms: Way of the Elegant Crane
  2. Elemental Soul, Henshin Training, Fists of Iron
  3. Clear Your Mind III

Season's Herald (11 AP)

• Child of Summer, Elder of Winter, Wellspring
  1. Beguile III, Wax and Wane, Druidic Wisdom I
  2. Wax and Wane

Shintao (8 AP)

• Bastion of Purity
  1. Fast Hands: Fast Hands: Melee III, Negotiator I
  2. Quick Strike III

Ninja Spy (8 AP)

• Basic Ninja Training
  1. Sneak Attack Training, Subtlety II
  2. Haste III

Destinies (Spent: 66 (54 +12pdp) / Max: 68 (56 +12pdp) AP)

Fury of the Wild (40 AP)

• Die Hard, Die Harder, Die Harderest, Be the Whirlwind
  1. Quick Cutter III, Enduring I
  2. Fast and Furious III, Primal Scream
  3. Sense Weakness III, Wild Weapons: Doublestrike III, Spirit of the Beast III
  4. Wilder Weapons: Doublestrike III, The Voice of Fury, Primal Force III
  5. Lore of the Wilds, Scarred by Chaos, Unbridled Fury, Nature's Fury, The Great Leveler III

Primal Avatar (26 AP)

• This is Your Nature: Sky, Now Grow: Heart, Weathering the Elements, Regrowth
  1. Storm Catcher, Rejuvenation Cocoon
  2. Mantle of Nature: Sky III, Thrive, Thunder Snow
  3. Shared Mantle, Primal Avatar Spell Focus: Evocation III, At Its Core
  4. Nature's Blessing, Epic Improved Maximize III

Race: anything will work since there's not really any APs to spare for the racial tree. But obvious choices are human for the extra feat or Aasimar for extra WIS.

Features:
* completely F2P and first-life friendly
* Winter Wolf with Snowslide is fun
* WIS is both your melee DPS and caster DC stat; and since Natural Fighting has no stat pre-reqs, this build is less MAD than others
Drawbacks:
* Feats are tight on any melee / caster hybrid without many bonus feats so tradeoffs are inevitable.
* No cold immunity-stripping power in Winter Wolf.
* Not many AoE melee attacks: just Alpha Strike at level 12 and Quick Cutter in epics.
* Most quarterstaves are 20/x2 weapons and this build only gets +3 crit range +1 crit multiplier to them. 17-20/x3 is nothing to brag about, so definitely need to prioritize the staves with boosted crit stats (i.e., Chieftain's Spear, Elemental Bloom, Sireth, etc.).
* Henshin Exemplar's attack speed bonus to staves doesn't work in animal forms, negating one of the main reasons you want to use staves normally.