Solarpower
Well-known member
Hierophant should give +4 WIS.
Elemental Apotheosis should give +4 CHA.
To match other classes Core 6 abilities.
U61 Enhancement Tree & Class Tweaks
- Thread starter Torc
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Elemental Apotheosis should give +4 CHA.
To match other classes Core 6 abilities.
Ahpuch
Well-known member
I agree with the overwhelming consensus that these are welcome changes.
But in asking about whether we like this approach to a balance pass I would like my response to be more nuanced. From the introduction I had thought that maybe you had "gone wide" to address an overall theme (e.g. melee viability). However, the changes seem to just be a lot of smart adjustments to things, some of which have been asked for for years.
So, I like the changes but if you're asking whether we want you to hold back a lot of easy adjustments (some for years) to present a "wide" balance pass instead of just releasing changes as they are requested, I would say "No, release changes as soon as feasible". I get that in some cases you don't want to change something outside of a balance pass but I don't see the interconnectedness in all these changes that warranted holding things back. If this is the only way to make these small changes I guess thats falls under I will take what we can get. But release earlier rather than en mass would be appreciated.
But in asking about whether we like this approach to a balance pass I would like my response to be more nuanced. From the introduction I had thought that maybe you had "gone wide" to address an overall theme (e.g. melee viability). However, the changes seem to just be a lot of smart adjustments to things, some of which have been asked for for years.
So, I like the changes but if you're asking whether we want you to hold back a lot of easy adjustments (some for years) to present a "wide" balance pass instead of just releasing changes as they are requested, I would say "No, release changes as soon as feasible". I get that in some cases you don't want to change something outside of a balance pass but I don't see the interconnectedness in all these changes that warranted holding things back. If this is the only way to make these small changes I guess thats falls under I will take what we can get. But release earlier rather than en mass would be appreciated.
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At least the ability tooltip on Lam says the DC's still include the stun mod, need to test if it does.
FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted
If you read my posts you have already lost
Hello torc, I have some suggestions for extra fixes in the trees. for harper:
- versatile adept 1-3 should give +6 spellpower, not 3
- versatile adept 4 should give +12 spellpower
- it would be cool if harper got imbue dice somewhere, because the tree is about being versatile (maybe put 1 in every core)
- magic of austerity should give +1 spell DCs, as should magic of patience (this is a hybrid tree after all)
- harper enchantment of deception should be 3 to hit/damage, in addition to the auto bluff.
- enchantment of magic should be +25 USP and spellcasting implement on weapons
- enchantment of righteousness if fine as is
- there should be imbue dice somewhere in the cores, like for warchanter
- each core should give 5 sonic spellpower (for the imbue)
- cores that give 1% DS and attack and damage should be 2
- doublestrike/shot boost should be 1 ap per rank
- elegant footwork should either have no cooldown or be swapped for another ability (not sure what)
- dashing scoundrel is currently never picked due to how much better the buckler one is, so this should probably give 15% DS or 10% dodge or extra prr and mrr or something to make it competitive
- id suggest adding something in the last t5 slot such as Skirmisher's Song: Your bard song now gives allies +10% dodge and +5 max dex bonus and +5% dodge cap (this is a bard tree after all)
- each core should give 5 cold spellpower for the imbue
- skaldic scream stun should last at least 10 seconds (maybe more) and have cooldown massively reduced (say, 30 seconds or something)
- boast should give 150 temp hp, +25 per epic level, and have almost no casting time and 3 second cooldown (basically blood tribute)
- the t5 active abilities should scale with evo DCs (or conjur if earth savant)
- the pierce resistances should be 1 ap per rank
- the chance on spellcast for temp sp should give 3/6/10 sp per rank, to be similar to other enhancements
- the spell pen and +1 DC should be 1 AP (or at least itd be nice if they did)
- the elemental diversification is basically useless, so i suggest replacing it with something that each elemental can do (IE fire gets an aura of flame, earth gets innate DR, water gets the freezing spray, and air has a chance to knock down enemies when they hit them or touch them)
- only thing is every core should give +1 to all tactics DCs, bears need them all, so is thematic
- crit multi should be moved out of capstone to level 12 core
- instead, capstone should give +1 ki on hit and +1W with piercing or slashing weapons
- tree needs imbue dice somewhere, so (again), it would be nice if every core gave +1 imbue dice (notice how i like my imbue dice placement?)
- impending doom should give 10 temp hp and 10 temp ki per character level to be similar to other abilities
- i think imbue should scale with 150% MP or RP to make it useful vs non bosses
- flashbang should add stun DC and highest of dex, wis, or str for its DC calculation (and if it doesnt add helpless, it should)
- deadly exploits should scale with 200% or 300% mp (not sure if 300% is too much)
- no mercy should be 1 AP per rank
- touch of death should be a frontal cleave, do double damage to good enemies, have dc of 10+ monk level + highest of dex, str, and wis + stun DCs, give +2 crit range and multi, and it should scale with 200% MP (and give a multi selector for a ranged version thats the same but scales with RP)
- crippling strike should be (at least) 1d6 str damage, and applies a stack of lethargy on vorpal (ninja spy is about confusing enemies and making them vulnerable, right?)
- shadow double should come with a multiselector that is the same attack for ranged, but gives 50% doubleshot
- deadly striker should allow shurikens to gain ki when they hit an enemy
- each core should give +1 to damage with handwraps to fix the monk nerf awhile ago
- tomb of jade should have a reduced cooldown, i suggest 20 seconds
- it would be cool if level 12 core gave +1 ki on hit with handwraps
- move the 15% attack speed out of the capstone, and give each henshin staff training +3% attack speed with quarter staves, and give capstone 5% more attack speed with staves (to be similar to thief acrobat)
- last 3 cores should give +1 imbue dice
- capstone should give a lvl 9 SLA of each school (or equivalent ability if no such thing exists)
- evocation: meteor swarm
- necromancy: wail of the banshee
- enchantment: hold monster mass
- conjuration: acid well
- illusion: weird (already is added to spellbook in epics, might as well put it at 20)
- abjuration: holy aura or radiant forcefield (i know there isnt a lvl 9 spell besides disjunction, but these are amazing so does it really matter?)
- transmutation: deadly weapons (highest level arti spell so it counts for me)
- each core should give +5 universal spellpower
- arcane bolt: 1d6+6 damage per caster level
- t4 should add a force spell, i suggest Arcane Burst: waves of force emanate from your body, dealing 1d6+5 force damage per caster level to nearby enemies (no save) (costs 1 ap per rank, 3 ranks, sp cost 15/10/5, cooldown 15/10/5 seconds)
- all spell criticals in the tree should give +2%
- cores 2, 4, and 6 should give +1% universal spell crit chance
- arcane blast: 1d6+7 force damage per caster level. remove the save.
- arcane supremacy should be Arcane Supremacy:your offensive spells have a 10% chance to grant arcane supremacy.
- Arcane Supremacy: your offensive spells have +2 universal spell power, and +2% spell crit multi. Each stack lasts 10 seconds, decays one at a time, and has a max stack size of 10
- shield champion stun chance should be higher, id suggest 20% or 30%
- shield riposte should be 1d8 per fighter level
- follow up should give +5/10/15 MP
- shield specialization 1-4 should give +2 damage in addition to the +1 to hit
- vanguard armor mastery should also give tower shield max dex bonus
- shield specialization 5 should give +10 MP
- armored strength should allow shields to benefit from improved critical: bludgeon
- disorienting smash should give a 25% chance on shield bash to confuse the opponent for 3 seconds, no save
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Darksteel
Well-known member
Absolutely! Great work on these trees, even though nothing on barbarians *looking at you Occult slayer*. Please keep them coming. Thank you.
Monkey_Archer
Well-known member
Mostly good changes.
A few exceptions:
1) Harper tree is still mostly useless unless it gets an increased critical range/multiplier somewhere.
2) Vanguard also needs crit range/multiplier to be viable.
3) Monk QP change is just bad...
A few exceptions:
1) Harper tree is still mostly useless unless it gets an increased critical range/multiplier somewhere.
2) Vanguard also needs crit range/multiplier to be viable.
3) Monk QP change is just bad...
Ahpuch
Well-known member
How so? QP is not great as it is and this makes it viable so not certain why "just bad" would be used to describe the change.
1) Harper's not meant to be a main tree. It's there to support other trees with that stuff in it. Though I agree it's not a tree to spend a lot of points in.
2) Not sure it'd help unless shields could strike more than once per second.
3) Partial agreement. Numerically it's fine, but Assassinate's the wrong DC. Stunning would be better.
Jack Jarvis Esquire
Well-known member
Thumbs up from me Torc. ??
Any chance you could take a wee look at the remaining broken Ravager issues as well? ?
Any chance you could take a wee look at the remaining broken Ravager issues as well? ?
not sure why a lot of people are happy with the monk changes, but it's a nerf to the general monk population. Gaining tatic bonus is way easier than gaining assassinate bonus (as non rogues). As it stands currently I'll lose 10 DC next update if I do not do major gear changes...
Monkey_Archer
Well-known member
Nevermind, ignore this, I didn't count the extra +10 for monk levels... So it should be a slight buff with full assassinate gear.
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Kukris will have 1 extra range after improved crit is applied. Though, daggers have a better named item selection, so that seems fair.
Eme
Well-known member
-Shintao, Henshin and Ninja capstones should have a small time reduction for monk based attack timers 
-Shintao smite tainted creature should count towards a light finisher ( it has the icon, its just a massive tease)
-Ninja cores should have a ranged +1 ki on ranged-hit in it somewhere, logically the shuriken one
-Shintao smite tainted creature should count towards a light finisher ( it has the icon, its just a massive tease)
-Ninja cores should have a ranged +1 ki on ranged-hit in it somewhere, logically the shuriken one
LouDaCrisp
Well-known member
Are you talking about Whirlwind Attack? If so, as of U57, they removed the need for combat expertise and spring attack, and only require dodge and mobility to use.
Is there any chance that Harper Agent could be given a bit more utility to align with its role as a generalist/support tree for any build? Something like +1 imbue dice to Harper Enchantment, potentially dice at the aforementioned damage cores (likely 6 and 18 to prevent oversaturation of players spending 1AP to get 1 dice from the base core), and say +3 dice in one of the T5 options? Perhaps allowing Throat Dagger to use the spellpower boosting metamagics and reducing the CD substantially as well would help.
The Quivering Palm change is nice; but at a massive caveat. This sets an unwelcomed presidence in my opinion. You should never balance a base core ability around a non-class feature; in this case, the assassination DCs are not native to monks, instead you're balancing around the existence of Falconry and assuming that every monk has access to/is using Falconry to supplement their class. Please consider front-loading this with base DCs at the very least, up to +14 like the changes to Frozen Fury and make the bonus portion be the best of assassinate or tactics DC.
Overall, I like the concept of these smaller scale but wider reaching balance passes en mass. I hope that more can come and these can be a more frequent sort of tweaking on the fly between the more targeted big passes/archetype passes.
Please look at Warpriests and Warsouls; those trees lack identity and use, particularly the entire Divine Vessel mechanic. I'd really like to see them brought up to par with offensive universal trees with a focus on favored weapons.
Edit: One idea would be to have the cores grant access to a few paladin spells; for example, Righteous Command at 6, Holy Sword at 12, and Zeal at 18.
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