U61 Patch 1 Preview 1: Raid Loot

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Viamel

Well-known member
The gear needs to look completely different, these weapons aren't worth using at all.

If these items won't be part of the set (which they really should be) they need to have unique effects to make them worth using.
Increased dice on some of the weapons would go a long way, the Maelstrom effect being non-specific makes it useless in a deliberately composed party.

Something that could be really cool would be conditional buffs on the weapons, i.e gain half a W by tumbling for 10s once a minute.
Or effects that are tied to the epic strikes in the ED's for synergy there? I'm just spitballing

The extra elemental damage effects are dull and un-rewarding so they're not a draw even if they should be there to maintain balance with other raid weapons.

A broader weapon selection would be nice too, where is our Kukri to celebrate the VKF kukri patch?
 

Viamel

Well-known member
Something that could be really cool would be conditional buffs on the weapons, i.e gain half a W by tumbling for 10s once a minute.
Or effects that are tied to the epic strikes in the ED's for synergy there? I'm just spitballing
Abilities/buffs/debuffs tied to action boosting/other active effects would be neat,
Consider;
- a small stat increase while action boosting

-a bonus imbue dice while action boosting

- a bonus 0.25W for your party members while action boosting

- an MP boost while raging

- a unique debuff while raging

- a unique bonus to seeker while using Precision or Power Attack (like the one in dreadnought)

- a baby version of "Killer" scaled at 2% DS for each monster you kill stacking to 5 (maybe on the new Kukri that you should also make)

- an inverted version of KOTC's Ascendancy that scales mp when striking good creatures (to a significantly smaller mp boost -say 25MP total)

- a debuff that reduces monster flat damage when you critical hit

-a debuff that reduces enemy fortitude and will saves

-a demonic rage as a guard/on kill effect, equivelant to that of the hezrou cookie
 

Hammatimes

Well-known member
Steel, I hope every morning is a pumpkin spiced latte morning for you. I am so excited about this shield.

Colossus is the first DPS viable raid large shield ever created and that's not hyperbole. Named shields were manually modernized to have a 19-20 X3 critical profile when the standard profile is 20 X2 but very often some named shields were either forgotten to be given this modern crit profile or they were purposefully neglected like the Alchemical, Kundarak, Vengeful Calamity, Champion of the Twins, Devil's Defense, and Dethek Runestone Shields. Weighted dice were also often forgotten on all the dread shields and Kundarak. The only shields with raid dice scaling (1d10+8) are shields that lack the modern crit profile so I'm hoping Colossus gets corrected to have the raid dice scaling like the rest of the raid weapons shown here because this would be the very first time a large shield was given both a modern crit profile as well as the correct raid dice.

But it's even better because it also has Impact which brings the profile to 18-20 X3 and it's also the very first large shield with guardbreaking, this is a lot of love to vanguards and I appreciate it.

I will say that putting action boost charges on weapons feels very, very bad. If you're using the Prowess filigree set then that means you instantly lose 5 of all your action boosts when you step into a quest and do any buffing that takes your hand slots like weapon clickies or scrolls. To stay in the same theme I would suggest replacing it with Draconic Reinvigoration because Vanguards are very steered towards a Divine Crusader T5 which lacks the action boost regeneration of Dreadnaught and unlike SWF'ers and TWF'ers, Vanguards would need to sacrifice their mainhand+sentience to use a Thunderforged Draconic Reinvigoration swap to regenerate their actions boosts during long raids or quests.

Personally, I would also prefer the Shield Bashing +2X% enhancement over the Bashing 6d6 because even though there is a 1 second cooldown on shield bashes you still want a high chance for your first attack after the cooldown has passed to proc the next shield bash especially since doublestrike no longer gives an additional chance to make that proc.


Pestle - Warhammer
This and many of the other weapons have adamantine as their material type but don't have it as a bypass? I think the weight of the item should also be increased like the Stone Boots were.
The improved destruction feels bad with the many augments and abilities already granting it. I would suggest replacing it with a modified Weaken Undead that strips 20% fortification from anything with a skeleton or a legendary version of Thunderforge's Body Breaker (5% Chance fortitude save -5 + Sunder Attempt) that would be upscaled to 10% chance for -10 fortitude with an improved sunder attempt. Or just simply give it bonesplitter and triple up on the vorpal procs.

Demise - Dwarven Waraxe
I'm torn on keen. Since there are no bludgeoning 1.5 handers, keen on a daxe means that you can take IC: Bludgeon to use warhammers for your single target weapon then use a keen daxe for your AOE weapon with a SWF build which is very situational and niche but I really enjoy the build variety that keen/impact offers (Even though you miss out on the Dwarven weapon line since you can only choose one). As someone who tries to optimize things, however, the new keen effect of bypassing all fortification feels awful because it feels like it's punishing my character for building in fortification bypass. I know this is outside the scope of this preview but I would really prefer for Keen/Impact to instead grant a unique seeker bonus if you already have the appropriate IC feat instead of the fortification bypass. With the current condition of keen I'd rather have vorpal instead, despite the build variety. Vorpal would also mesh well flavor-wise with the slay living proc.
The 6d6 force damage feels really bad when you can augment a 9d6. I think Constricting Nightmare would work much better here or Identity Crisis.

Ignition - Bastard Sword
Very cool bastard sword, it'll compete with The Bitter Blade for a CC Bsword.
Flaming blast feels bad though, I would suggest Legendary Blinding Embers, Fire Vulnerability, or Flamebitten instead.

These weapons are competing with the flexibility of Dino weapons which have the strong DoTs, exceptional stat bonus, material/alignment bypass, set bonus and flexibility of swapping out any of the LGS debuffs/procs to fit the party's needs. I'd say you're pretty safe on going big on the effects especially since we're making our way to level 40 anyways.
 

BuckGB

Well-known member
Agreed with others, the weapons and shields in particular need serious upgrades to make them competitive.

How about adding a Kukri, now that we have an entire enhancement line dedicated to the weapon type?
 

nenetteblackmoor

Well-known member
Isn’t it time for DDO to implement a real Holy Sword or Favored Weapon?

The Vecna Unleashed pack features many of the gods of Eberron, lending their power to the player.
However, there are no weapons blessed by the gods in DDO, nor are there any weapons given by the gods to their believers. *1

How about implementing weapons that display special effects when used by believers, similar to Divine Vengeance?
Divine Vengeance required being a Paladin, but changing this to Religion would be easy to change in the code.

And most importantly, appearance. Religious items must be recognizable as religious at a glance.
It's not just about status for performance. Appearance is also a crucial aspect of the status!

Believers of the Lord of Blades should vanquish enemies with great swords, while believers of the Sovereign Host should sever enemy heads with long swords! *2

While implementing this in the current update might be challenging, it would be appreciated if it could be included in a near-future update.
In the future, I would also like to see cloaks and armor adorned with the symbols of the gods. Religious symbol items that allow us to see at a glance that we are part of the army of the gods.

Who defeated Vecna? Which faction is it? In real-world power struggles, the Holy Symbol would likely be a significant element.

*1 Excluding Dull Dagger.
*1 It might be written in the flavor text.
*2 Use the weapon you like.


Special effects are desirable for Raid Weapons. Effects like Gashing or Miming are not particularly needed. These effects should be something unique or a combination that cannot be obtained in regular quests.
For a Paladin dealing 100,000 damage, 6d6 damage is like garbage.
It should have special effects like Blackrazer's Stealer of Souls or GreenSteel's debuff.
Effective combinations like Keen+Vorpal are also desirable.


Personally, the one I want the most is the Legendary Holy Avenger.
 

Lotoc

Well-known member
It's going to be very hard to design weapons that can compete with dinobone without giving them nonstandard crit profiles, for the next 10 years every single weapon added to the game is going to have this problem because unfortunately you guys went too hard on making dinosaur bone weapons good.
So when it comes to new weapons unless you want to cause major powercreep the most important thing is going to be the art direction so at least people will want to make a cosmetic of it, in this regard your art team did a great job.
 

Nickodeamous

Well-known member
Going to hop on Lam at some point today. Thanks for posting items!

First glance:

Weapons fall way short of dread items due to lack of set

Tactics is meh at +11. That should be quality instead as most people slot higher stunning effects already

I would like to see some items with superior reinforced fists, quality wisdom, and enhanced ki (specifically for monks). I've been locked into the cornerstones champion since sharn dropped. Would be nice to have some variety.

Like others, don't see much value in farming the raid for loot unfortunately:(

Nic


 

Fallout47

Well-known member
The least good thing to do is to just post that the loot is trash, with no reasons why or expressions of what you think could make it better. We will do nothing with those comments, and in some cases individual devs may add users who do this repeatedly to ignore lists.
Some folks are not as eloquent with their communication as others. That doesn't mean that they should be ignored. In the past, many people were ignored or outright handed lifetime bannings on the old forums. That started an SSG trend towards insulating yourselves from any feedback that was remotely negative.

Most companies go out of their way to ascertain customer feedback, they beg you to fill out surveys or to stay on the line after a call to answer a short survey on their customer service. SSG on the other hand, hides, for the most part on other platforms from many of their oldest players, seeming to prefer the echo chamber created in these spaces.

The statement above is breathtaking in it's insinuation that the company listens to any player feedback. I have read hundreds of threads on these forums with detailed examples on how to improve a range of systems in this game, proffered by the player base, only to be completely ignored by the developers. And by "completely" ignored, I am referring to all the threads, running into multiple pages, including posters begging for a dev response.

Perhaps a better way to respond to the posters who offended you would have been, "For all those who have declared that the proposed raid loot is trash, please post your suggestions on what would make it better." The last sentence in your quote above was unnecessary and just reaffirms what most of think of you all, that you are easily offended and don't listen to negative feedback.
 

axel15810

DDO YouTuber, Streamer and Podcaster
My initial thoughts from look at the raid loot -

Why is there a greatclub? DDO doesn't much support greatclub use. Nobody uses greatclubs over more powerful two handed weapon types. So nobody is going to use this. Maybe make this a maul if you want a Two Handed bludgeon weapon? I am biased since I like using Silvanus maul builds but there has not been a new raid maul other than the attuned dino bone ones since the Tremor from Old Baba's Hut in U37...almost 6 years ago. If you keep it as a greatclub the weapon itself needs to be looked at and be made visually bigger. It's very small for a two hander and looks odd.

Maybe buff the Bard augment? It's cool in concept but an extra 3 PRR is not much.

Consider adding some lost purpose slots/set bonuses to the weapons/items. That'd make them more attractive. For example the attuned dino bone stuff in IoD counted towards the set. iirc from last night none of the raid items do. Feels very strange since regular quests have ton of loot with lost purpose slots.

The greatsword graphic is funny but I do think the size needs toning down a bit. It'll get visually annoying for party members and I imagine stick through the ceilings of low ceiling dungeons and such.

I didn't see much for healers or palemasters on the loot list.
 
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Zvdegor

Melee Artificer Freak
It's going to be very hard to design weapons that can compete with dinobone without giving them nonstandard crit profiles, for the next 10 years every single weapon added to the game is going to have this problem because unfortunately you guys went too hard on making dinosaur bone weapons good.
So when it comes to new weapons unless you want to cause major powercreep the most important thing is going to be the art direction so at least people will want to make a cosmetic of it, in this regard your art team did a great job.
Well after Dino Expansion all weapon/armor should be same augment system but with expansion specific attributes. Problem solved.
 

Ying

5000+ hours played
When Skeletons in the Closet came out, my guild ransacked it for weeks. We still run Skeletons regularly for both the base items and the optional chest items. With the VU raid loot so far, there's no compelling reason to do the same. There's nothing to chase with the base raid loot, but there needs to be. Current items, especially the weapons, lack wide appeal. As someone who spends way too many hours experimenting with gear tetris, I'm struggling to find items that I'd want to build around.

Earlier when I posted that raid loot needs to evolve, I'm really talking about innovation. Both Viamel and Venatori brainstormed new augments or unique effects that warrant being included as raid loot. I may not agree with all of the effects proposed by them, but the innovative direction they are taking needs to be further explored by the devs.
 

Lotoc

Well-known member
Well after Dino Expansion all weapon/armor should be same augment system but with expansion specific attributes. Problem solved.
It's an issue in that expansion systems are ideally self contained. Dinobone is the system of isle of dread and making all future loot worthless unless you own isle of dread is potentially a worse problem.
It'd also be annoying "Oh sweet I pulled a reaper mythic falchion from (level 40 raid) time to go farm Isle of Dread so I can slot dust in it"
 

Spook

Ghostly Troll
It's an issue in that expansion systems are ideally self contained. Dinobone is the system of isle of dread and making all future loot worthless unless you own isle of dread is potentially a worse problem.
It'd also be annoying "Oh sweet I pulled a reaper mythic falchion from (level 40 raid) time to go farm Isle of Dread so I can slot dust in it"
Sharing a system does not necessarily mean sharing ingredients
 
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