J1ng on the old forums did some testing on various weapon styles and strikes:
U62 Preview 2 Active Attacks Rebalance
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J1ng on the old forums did some testing on various weapon styles and strikes:
Nickodeamous
Mercenary for Hire
clutch!! Thank you for looking at this
As noted by others, drifting lotus is FAR behind other epic strikes. I honestly think leaving at 50% is ok, but the floor has to be 20%...past that its starts to ne a nerf to pre-u62. I feel like 30% is the sweet spot here, but 10% is just bad from a math perspective and comparative perspective.
Thanks again!!
Nic
Elminster
Sage of Shadowdale
Touch = Nerf.
HALF my DPS disappears if you nerf adrenaline.
You want your builds to work without adren, that's fine BUT figure it out for yourselves or have them adjust something else.
But please for all that is holy DO NOT NERF ADRENALINE!
A lot of the recent changes (e.g. W scaling, imbue adjustments, active attacks doing % damage, etc) seem like they are meant to standardize things so that it will be easier to guage the impact of adjustments in the future. If it turns out that weapons just aren't doing enough damage in general... maybe the W scaling gets shifted up 0.5. If weapon 'burst damage' is too low... maybe the %s of various active attacks increase 5% each. If imbue weapon builds are clearly weaker than active attack weapon builds then maybe the spell/ranged/melee power scaling gets increased 20%. Et cetera.
Of course, we'll have to wait and see how effective it is in the long term, but at least in theory, making more things have consistent results should make it easier to adjust those results universally rather than one at a time.
Of course, we'll have to wait and see how effective it is in the long term, but at least in theory, making more things have consistent results should make it easier to adjust those results universally rather than one at a time.
Jack Jarvis Esquire
Well-known member
Agreed. Adrenaline doesn't need a nerf, it needs fixed. ?
Whilst it is the most effective epic strike for melee, in fact because it is the most effective epic strike for melee, it doesn't need a nerf. Other melee epic strikes could use a buff though.
As the best melee epic strike, nerfing adrenaline only exacerbates the risk/damage gap between melee and non-melee, and that is the last thing we need. Quite the reverse in fact.
To be fair to the Devs, I don't think a nerf to Adrenaline is being considered here. ?
droid327
Hardcore casual soloist
No people, stop with this. Not only is adrenaline/HE fun and unique for their ability to synergize with other active abilities, but the charge mechanic rewards skillful gameplay by letting you pre buff a charge before combat, and then immediately hit another. That is exactly the kind of forward-looking, not-brainless-zerging kind of play that should be encouraged, not disabled.
Monkey_Archer
Well-known member
Except this design explicitly excludes the possibility of creating new and powerful attacks that could compete with adrenaline because they will always just be combined with it.
For example a +100% damage +5 multiplier attack would a fun ability and seems very strong, but this would actually be weaker than adrenaline is currently, and could never be added to the game because it would just be the new thing to use adrenaline on.
Elminster
Sage of Shadowdale
Create another ability that's "adrenaline-like"?
Say an ability, let's call it ,"Perfect Form". With Perfect Form active, ANY CC maneuever (or any attack with a CC maneuever attached; including those that are AoE CC's) will automatically succeed without any saves applied.
Those bosses previously immune will now have to make a save check to block the CC.
droid327
Hardcore casual soloist
Thats not true...Adrenaline is an Epic Strike and thus is already exclusive with the other Strikes. Lotus is already an example of an attack that competes with Adrenaline for utility.
A 100% Damage +5 Mult attack that wasnt an epic strike would already be OP just on its own, its not Adrenaline there that's the issue
Hammatimes
Well-known member
Adrenaline should be the highest dps epic strike. It's single target, single attack, with only a 4s single target CC and costs 9 AP. Plus it actually requires a tiny bit of coordination that many players dont want to do, plenty of people feel that they need to stop attacking for too long to pair adrenaline for it to even be worth it.
Most players don't even play in the difficulties where single target dps is important or they're more reliant on the aoe CC of dire charge / lotus / consecration. The epic strikes are not nearly as unbalanced as people are saying when you factor in aoe and CC.
Most players don't even play in the difficulties where single target dps is important or they're more reliant on the aoe CC of dire charge / lotus / consecration. The epic strikes are not nearly as unbalanced as people are saying when you factor in aoe and CC.
Celestial Mandate (Melee) - Unyielding Sentinel (Increases hate)
HW has 3 strikes
TWF has 3 strikes
THF has 1 strike
SWF has 1 strike
Drifting Lotus - Grandmaster of Flowers
HW has 1 strike
TWF has 3 strikes
THF has 3 strikes
SWF has 3 strikes
Shadowstrike (Melee) - Shadowdancer
HW has 3 strikes
TWF has 3 strikes
THF has 1 strike
SWF has 3 strikes
The Sword Sings (Melee) - Fatesinger
HW has 2 strikes
TWF has 2 strikes
THF has 1 strike
SWF has 1 strike
Dire Charge (Melee) - Legendary Dreadnaught
All has 1 strike
Just so I have this for future reference
HW has 3 strikes
TWF has 3 strikes
THF has 1 strike
SWF has 1 strike
Drifting Lotus - Grandmaster of Flowers
HW has 1 strike
TWF has 3 strikes
THF has 3 strikes
SWF has 3 strikes
Shadowstrike (Melee) - Shadowdancer
HW has 3 strikes
TWF has 3 strikes
THF has 1 strike
SWF has 3 strikes
The Sword Sings (Melee) - Fatesinger
HW has 2 strikes
TWF has 2 strikes
THF has 1 strike
SWF has 1 strike
Dire Charge (Melee) - Legendary Dreadnaught
All has 1 strike
Just so I have this for future reference
Boondocks Mike
Well-known member
Going to reiterate that I think adjusting attacks with 15-20 sec CDs down to the 6-12 range is something that should absolutely be done and a priority.
Also there was obviously some thought given to the Cleave feats, but not Improved Sunder which I definitely think warrants both a shorter CD and a damage bonus on use. I'd also look into either giving it a new, better, less ballerina animation or simply removing a unique animation from it altogether since that is easier. The current animation is long, slow, buggy, and bad.
I really like the modernization of Slicing Blow but it's still niche and not even worth very much within it's niche. I'd suggest significant buffs to either the bleed damage or QoL improvements to it's stacking so that it is at least less punishing to use, as well as adding some additional damage on cast to at least make it more widely usable.
Suggest lowering the CD of Shattering Strike in Kensei by 2 seconds per rank. Alternatively, give it any kind of additional scaling with rank besides the bonus damage.
I suggest altering Deadly Strike in Kensei to simply be a large +% damage attack on a low CD.
Execute attacks (Execute, A Good Death, Merciful Strike) really need a redesign or a huge buff.
Also there was obviously some thought given to the Cleave feats, but not Improved Sunder which I definitely think warrants both a shorter CD and a damage bonus on use. I'd also look into either giving it a new, better, less ballerina animation or simply removing a unique animation from it altogether since that is easier. The current animation is long, slow, buggy, and bad.
I really like the modernization of Slicing Blow but it's still niche and not even worth very much within it's niche. I'd suggest significant buffs to either the bleed damage or QoL improvements to it's stacking so that it is at least less punishing to use, as well as adding some additional damage on cast to at least make it more widely usable.
Suggest lowering the CD of Shattering Strike in Kensei by 2 seconds per rank. Alternatively, give it any kind of additional scaling with rank besides the bonus damage.
I suggest altering Deadly Strike in Kensei to simply be a large +% damage attack on a low CD.
Execute attacks (Execute, A Good Death, Merciful Strike) really need a redesign or a huge buff.
Monkey_Archer
Well-known member
No. Quick Cutter should be the highest dps epic strike. Its single target, single attack, slow stacking DOT instead of instant burst damage, and no CC whatsoever. It currently only barely breaks even with pre-buff adrenaline after 30+ seconds of non stop fighting with no debuffs. With debuffs it never comes close.
I'm on the other end of the spectrum here. Even though the animation is technically a dps loss I enjoy the animation for Improved Sunder (SWF/Sword and Board) and would prefer it to be kept.
I'd also like to reiterate a request to see Exalted Smite scale with this new system. For Comparison:
Exalted Smite has a 5 second cooldown, +2 threat range, and +2 multiplier. It scales up to +25 damage (with at least 3 points in the Divine Crusader tree) and twice charisma modifier to hit.
Contrast that with Sniper Shot (Ranged). 6 second cooldown, +2 threat range, +2 multiplier, +20% damage, auto-bluff for 4 seconds.
Smite costs more AP, has a limited resource pool, and requires an epic destiny tree to continue scaling into Epics. Smite also has gear dependencies.
Lotoc
Well-known member
Quick cutter genuinely needs to be massively stronger than it currently is, because it competes directly with adrenaline.
The other epic strikes you can at least make the excuse "Oh I can use this situationally when I need more CC or AoE or I could even prep adrenaline and use it on this epic strike for big upfront damage." Quick Cutter has no such justifications going for it, the only thing Quick Cutter has going for it is that during the fury of the wild epic moment it does solid DPS specifically when dual wielding but not using handwraps. (hits 3 times when dual wielding and does the bane damage on hit when used with the Quick buff active, it only hits a single time with handwraps - at least as a razorclaw.)
Thanks for reposting this.
I wish every active attack could accurately state in the description if it is a single attack, cleave attack, 360 degree attack, etc, and if it has more than one strike then how many for each different weapon type... so much of this game is guessing what will work well on a particular build because half of the descriptions are not accurate.
seph1roth5
Well-known member
I thought the animation attacks were dependent on your weapon. Like...quarterstaff animations are soooooo slow. It's not a tiny fraction of a second or anything, it's a lot of big, slowass whirling attacks that feel like I could've gotten 3-4 normal attacks in that time. Or greatsword has some bad ones too (I think sunder?) where you take a big 360 swing and again, suuuuper slow.
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