U62 Preview 2 Balance Refresh

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Torc

Systems Developer
This is the generalized balance portion of U62, containing buffs and adjustments across many places. For this pass, we focused on more AP cost reductions in a few high-cost trees, Alchemist enhancement trees, and balancing the Imbue system for spellpower scaling imbues.

Monk Class

  • Monk combo builders now deal +10% damage, and their alignment based builders deal +15% damage
  • Monk Finishers now deal +30% damage
  • Touch of Death now deals +30% damage
  • Touch of Despair now scales with the highest of Dex/Wis and uses Assassinate DCs to determine its DC
Stormsinger

  • Stormsinger's metamagic costs are now set to the standard AP cost for metamagic enhancements (2AP each)
Across the Board

  • Spellpower scaling imbues have been standardized: They are all now 1d8 damage per imbue dice and all now scale with 75% spell power instead of 100%
    • Affects:
      • Eldritch Knight
      • Arcane Archer
      • Warchanter
      • Warpriest/Warsoul
      • Artificer
      • Dark Apostate
      • Druid Elemental Forms
      • Blightcaster
      • Vile Chemist
Arcane Archer (both Elf and Ranger)

  • Force Arrows is now 1 rank 2AP (uses the 3rd rank bonuses)
  • True Strike is now 1 rank 2AP (uses 3rd rank bonuses)
  • Inferno Shot is now 1 rank 2AP (uses the 3rd rank bonuses)
  • Shattermantle Shot is now 1 rank 2AP (uses the 3rd rank bonuses)
  • Dispelling Shot is now 1 rank 2AP (uses 3rd rank bonuses)
    • in total this saves 11AP since Force Arrows and Dispelling Shot were 3ranks/2AP!
Kensei

  • Tactics is now 1AP per rank
  • Weapon Focus vertical line and the Exotic Focus enhancement are now 1AP
    • in total this saves 8AP!
Dwarf

  • Shield Mastery cost reduced to 1AP/rank (this also affects human's Fighting Style multiselector)
Purple Dragon Knight

  • Sniper is now +1/2/3d6 Ranged Sneak Attack Dice and +2/4/6 Point Blank Shot distance, and now costs 1AP/rank (this also affects human's Fighting Style multiselector)
Vile Chemist

  • Core 1 is now: +1 Reflex save. Each core ability you take in this tree beyond the first grants +5 PRR
  • Cores 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 now grant +5 Poison Spell Power, 2% dodge, and 2% dodge cap while in Orchidium instead of their original Orchidium boosts
  • Core 3 is now Hidden Blades I and grants +5 Universal Spell Power, +3% Doublestrike and Doubleshot, and +1 Imbue Dice
  • Core 4 is now Hidden Blades II and grants +5 Universal Spell Power, +3% Doublestrike and Doubleshot, and +1 Imbue Dice, as well as granting you full Base Attack Bonus
  • Core 5 is now Hidden Blades III and grants +5 Universal Spell Power, +3% Doublestrike and Doubleshot, and +1 Imbue Dice, as well as a +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Multiplier with all Simple weapons
  • Core 6 (Venom's Grip) now grants: +4 Intelligence, +10 Universal Spell Power, +3% Doublestrike and Doubleshot, and +2 Imbue Dice
  • Willful Ambition is now Swift Ambition and boosts Reflex saving throws
  • New Tier 4: Simple Thrown Mastery: If you have Simple Thrown Expertise, you now use the higher of your Intelligence and Dexterity to determine how much Doubleshot you gain from that feat.
  • Sapping Ambition which was very buggy is gone and is now Brushed Aside: You gain the Defensive Roll feat.
Apothecary

  • Core 1 is now: +1 Will save. Each core ability you take in this tree beyond the first grants +5 pos/neg spell power
  • Cores 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 now grant 2% Pos and Neg spell crit damage while in Verdanite instead of their original Verdanite boosts
  • Core 6 now grants +2 Transmutation DCs passively without requiring Verdanite
  • Tier 5 Master Apothecary now grants an additional +1 Spell Penetration (since this bonus was removed from Core 3)
  • New Tier 4: Apothecary's Satchel: 1 rank 2AP: You gain +5% Magical Efficiency (since this bonus was removed from Core 4)
  • Energy of the Scholar rank 3 is now 100 SP
Bombardier

  • Core 1 is now: +1 Fortitude save. Each core ability you take in this tree beyond the first grants +5 fire/cold/acid/electric/poison spell power and +1 Burning Ambition Dice
  • Cores 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 now grant +2% Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, and Poison Spell Critical Damage instead of their original Pyrite boosts
  • Core 6 now grants +2 Conjuration DCs passively without requiring Pyrite
  • Cores 3, 4, 5 no longer grant burning ambition dice inconsistently and now just grant +1 each as per the text of core 1
  • Cores 3, 4, and 5 now grant +3 caster levels each BUT now require you to take different elements each time
  • Swift Ambition is now Holistic Ambition and grants Fortitude saving throws
  • Rapid Condensation SLA is gone
  • There are now 3 Vial SLAs in tiers 1, 2, and 3, you must take a different Vial element each time

If you like these kinds of changes and would like to see more of them, please let us know! And if you have your own suggestions as to what should be adjusted, please feel free to let us know about those as well!
 
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Strimtom

Well-known member
Don't forget to make sure the druid imbues (fire and water elemental form) get the d8 treatment! Other than that looks good!
 

Fhrek

One Badge of Honor achieved
Thanks for the Balance work. Those seems nice!

I'm stubborn, will ask for this again!

Could the Enlightened Spirit enhancements Tier 4s Brilliance and Spiritual Retribution be switched and change the pre-requisite?

Spiritual Retribution works as imbue for Warlock Blasters, while Brilliance works just for Auralocks. Still if you as a Blasters want to get Spiritual Retribution you need to "waste" AP points in an useless Eldrich Aura tree.

The name order will be kind no sense, but it could be changed as well. Looking like this:

Spiritual Defense - Spiritual Bastion - Spiritual Ward - Spiritual Brilliance
Power of Enlightenment: Light - Power of Enlightenment: Light - Enlightenment Retribution
 

Gavaleus

Member
Please keep doing these balance changes whenever you can. A few changes like these go a looooong way, especially since before it seemed like months to years between major revamps of things. And with them being in every (major) patch for the past several patches now... I feel spoiled!

Concerning the spell power scaling imbues: Swashbuckler's imbue (Resonant Arms) is a spell power scaling imbue that wasn't listed there.
 

doctorjazz

New member
I think the changes for the alchemist detract from the skill level required to play the class. The skill ceiling for the class is very high currently, especially in raids, when it comes to mana/spell point (I'm going to use those interchangeably) management using pyrite reaction spikes and other feats/buffs that give decreased cost. The skill floor right now is still low if you consider for leveling and not raid pushing, you can get away with doing damage in verdanite or orchidium and not feel completely weak compared to pyrite. Adding buffs in bombardier that don't mandate you be in pyrite reaction lower the skill floor and the skill ceiling of the class, making the class less enjoyable to play, in my opinion. High reapers with this update seem to allow caster alchemists to sit in Orchidium for the defensive buffs and still output high damage on crit.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Spellpower scaling imbues have been standardized: They are all now 1d8 damage per imbue dice and all now scale with 75% spell power instead of 100%
  • Affects:
    • Eldritch Knight
    • Arcane Archer
    • Warchanter
    • Warpriest/Warsoul
    • Artificer
    • Dark Apostate
    • Druid Elemental Forms
    • Blightcaster
    • Vile Chemist
Bard: Iced Edges
Bard: Resonant Arms
Warlock: Spiritual Retribution
Helf: Warlock Dilettante
 
I don't understand the imbue nerf unless you plan on making them work with crit % and crit dmg %. They were classified as spells and took the additional decrease in r7+ now you're just kicking them even more while they're down..... and this is coming from someone who has done many imbue based builds. They already don't get played that much why add more reason not to.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Arcane Archer (both Elf and Ranger)
A long as you're doing AA work, how about redoing the cores in elf AA to not require being epic levels to take. It's an old design that predates us having universal trees.

WGWbFP4.jpg
 

FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted

Well-known member
Vile Chemist
  • Core 4 is now Hidden Blades II and grants +5 Universal Spell Power, +3% Doublestrike and Doubleshot, and +1 Imbue Dice, as well as granting you full Base Attack Bonus
  • Core 5 is now Hidden Blades III and grants +5 Universal Spell Power, +3% Doublestrike and Doubleshot, and +1 Imbue Dice, as well as a +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Multiplier with all Simple weapons
  • Sapping Ambition which was very buggy is gone and is now Brushed Aside: You gain the Defensive Roll feat.
Bombardier
  • There are now 3 Vial SLAs in tiers 1, 2, and 3, you must take a different Vial element each time
I think it would be good to move the crit multi to the core 4 like similar enhancement trees (except ninja spy). Battle engineer and deepwood stalker come to mind (crit bonus in core 4, not just multi). it would make multiclassing better as well as leveling better and wouldn't add more power. I would suggest if this happens adding something to core 5 like EK such as 5% stacking concealment, deflect arrows, 5% elemental absorb in purple, or my favorite idea, making defensive roll proc at 50% health like thief acrobat in rouge to make the t5 worth taking. I also think cores 4 and 5 should give 10 universal spell power and core 6 should give +5 poison spellpower in addition to what it does because even with this buff, eldritch knight is getting WAY more spellpower. Lastly, the 3 vial SLAs in the tree, what are they? are they the lvl vial, lvl 3 vial AOE fireball, then lvl 4 AOE better fireball spells? or are they all the lvl 1 single target one? i think the SLAs should be AOE vial spells that do 1d6+3 and 1d6+4 damage instead. In addition, the t5 elemental olbiteration is worse than the level 3 spells, with same damage but 5 less max caster level, so would like to see this bumped to 1d6+5 damage and max caster level 20 to make it worth taking.
 

saekee

long live ROGUE
That is interesting. Will there be a similar standardization on other imbues like 200% vs 100% melee power?

Don't forget to reduce the cost of No Mercy in Ninja Spy tier 4. It is weirdly 2 AP per rank, should be 1 AP.

Please consider fixing Poison Exploit. It should not PULL poisons from the body. It should activate in some way the poisons IN the body of mobs and make them worse. It is utterly counterintuitive as it now stands.
 

Rincewind

Well-known member
Can you guys take a look at SpellSinger AP cost plz
Even just taking the baseline require to get to t5 and all t5 ( with loosing a cha point in th tree) cost you 42 points, and that doesn't even count for cores 18 and 20 (44) or the extra cha that all caster bard want (46) and you have to leave a lot of good stuff out. lowering some costs for example changing enchantments that require 3 points to just 2 for example could help us lower this to a more rational level.
 

Sholekar

Well-known member
On the note of AA changes, I like this. Would love to see a bit of help for the T5s, namely Improved elemental Arrows and Runebow.

Runebow doesn't stack with weapon enchantments, and so ends up being useless. Maybe move the crit option of Improved elemental arrows to this spot so you can get the crit and the imbue dice? Or maybe something else/more to help spice up these two tier 5s that are just lackluster. Maybe a crit range increase to match the cores multiplier.

But either way, appreciating the small updates to cost on these trees. Just hoping the spellpower imbues have something in the pipeline keeping them relevant with the 25% damage nerf.
 

Tesrali (sam-u-r-eye)

Well-known member
Imbue nerf is not necessary IMO. They were already only marginally competitive with direct damage as a form of scaling. I recommend not going through with the spellpower % portion of the change.

~

I'm not sure the alchemist shake-up goes far enough but I'm not an alchemist main. I was never opposed to stance swapping being a requirement for good damage or DCs although perhaps their transmutation DC was just naturally a little low for their cooldowns. The biggest thing for me on alchemist was the lack of spell selection at endgame. Their confusion effects quite unreliable (as a form of crowd control) so they have a hard time targeting will saves. IMO we could have them get a better "stunning vial."

On thinking some more, having a T5 "stunning vial" in the Transmutation tree would be really nice. Similar to how a bard can get a hold spell.

I love DC casting so I think this improvement to their kit would be really helpful. <3

I have left my second character at cap as an alchemist since Ilse of Dread dropped.

~

Allowing them to accelerate their heals would also make me super happy. The delay just makes them not viable as a healer in R10. <3
 
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seph1roth5

Well-known member
Also a fan of these piles of bug fixes/adjustments. Though i agree imbue changes were unnecessary. Wasn't the whole point of imbues in the first place to give an easier way to adjust different class's power? If you make them all the same spellpower scaling and dice that seems like the opposite effect. It was fine as it was, like warlock blasts, where you could give different classes different scaling and dice.

Monk stuff:
- I think they need more damage than that. +10% damage is just barely better than a normal attack, and the finishers are pretty lackluster already. We need a combo/monk pass pretty bad. Maybe bump up builder damage a bit and add crit multiplier to finishers or something. As it is, very few people bother with most builder/finishers and just keep a couple.
 

Fhrek

One Badge of Honor achieved
We need a combo/monk pass pretty bad.
Always tought monk combos in DDO was too convoluted.
The buff ones (element+element+element) could still be combos, but the utility/situational ones (remove status) should just spent ki reflecting their Tier or DC check.
 
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