U62 Preview 2 Balance Refresh

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saekee

long live ROGUE
I would like you to look at an overall balance look at the amount of AP requested for abilities in Tier 5s. It seems very imbalanced. For example:
  • Assassin: 11
  • FVS warsoul: 9
  • Kensei: 5
  • Pale Master: 10
  • Ninja Spy: 10
  • Air Savant: 11
  • Vanguard: 12
  • Ravager: 9
  • Swash: 8
They are all over the place. One way to reduce costs is to make 1AP/rank, 3 ranks stuff go for 2 AP for whole layer; combine some to reduce costs as well, and maybe add something interesting or increase costs (Kensei at 5 AP tier 5? Really?). I think 9 AP is a good standard for tier 5 costs.

Capstone requires 40 AP so if you need 30 AP to get to tier 5, it should not cost more than 10 AP to get the best of a tree and a capstone IMHO.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
The elemental imbues that scale with spell power already work with threat reduction. The issue, is that they work with SPELL threat reduction, but never mention that anywhere.
The big issue for me that is threat reduction isn't available equally across the board; so even if it is working off spell threat reduction, it just isn't good enough still. Add ranged & spell threat reduction on treachery and/or add in other filigrees with those threat reductions. Add spell threat reduction to the Happy Calm coffee.

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The Blonde

Catalogues Bugs
  • New: Arcane Archer's tier 5 Improved Elemental Arrow's critical hits now scale with Imbue dice, dealing 1d10 per imbue dice on a critical hit, and apply to the Force Arrows imbue. (this replaces the current force arrows on-crit 1d10)
Any chance Improved Elemental Arrows could be combined with the "Elemental Damage" alternative (which is +2 Imbue Dice) into a single enhancement with no multiselector? Because as cool as Improved Elemental Arrows is, it's still inferior to the banal +2 Imbue Dice when it comes to maximizing DPS. Especially since Force Arrows crits are being moved to Improved Elemental Arrows (which would make it a nerf if you don't currently use Improved Elemental Arrows on live, which nobody does).

Thanks for fixing the 1st core of AA. Shattermantle Shot's vorpal effect needs its DC modernized, and Inferno Shot & Improved Elemental Arrows - Fire need to scale with something.
 

Zvdegor

Melee Artificer Freak
i think the problem with cleave/great cleave changes is they require power attack, decouple the cleaves from the power attack feat and people will take them
Yes! That would be awesome! My build also use both cleave and gcleave but I dont use the PA because of Combat Expertise. Basicly I lost a very valuable feat slot at lvl 3.
Lots of builds could use the cleave attacks without the PA prerequisite.
Maybe both attacks could have a Strength level to use. Cleave same 13 like PA and GCleave 15.
 

Smokewolf

Well-known member
With the imbue power changes, I'm thinking implies that more spell power is expected to be added via gear at some point. Sorta like like rebalencing beforehand as it were?
 

Nickodeamous

Well-known member
Here's what we've gotten so far in terms of bug fixes and feedback responses:

Bugs Fixed:
  • The Known Issue about feats not working with our new tooltip flow has been resolved.
  • Fixed: Swashbuckler and Warchanter imbue not scaling at 75%, also fixed their tooltips
  • Fixed: Boulder's Might still using the old system
  • Fixed: Force Arrows correctly use their Tier 3 Values
  • Fixed: Elf AA Tree is all kinds of weird with some of the 3-ranks condensing to 1
  • Fixed: Vial SLAs in Bombardier erroneously sharing a cooldown
Balance Updates:
  • Cleave and Great Cleave have been updated to deal +20% and +40% damage respectively
  • Divine Vessel in Warpriest/Warsoul now deals +30% more damage
  • New: Arcane Archer core 1's enhancement bonus now stacks with everything.
  • New: Arcane Archer's tier 5 Improved Elemental Arrow's critical hits now scale with Imbue dice, dealing 1d10 per imbue dice on a critical hit, and apply to the Force Arrows imbue. (this replaces the current force arrows on-crit 1d10)
If you see any other bugs or have further feedback on balance let us know!
hey SteelStar,

this seems to be a summary of a few threads, including the one where drifting lotus is being reduced to 10%. Is there any dev response to this? Per Torq below, they are looking at handwraps for drifting lotus as they are only hitting once, while all other weapons hit 3x.

Any comment on this? (disregard...looks like Torq updated his post to look into punch weapons). :)

You are going to have to fix drifting lotus for handwraps then
@Torq Yes we are looking at that now...
 
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Yamani

Tyrannical Overlord
  • New: Arcane Archer core 1's enhancement bonus now stacks with everything.
  • New: Arcane Archer's tier 5 Improved Elemental Arrow's critical hits now scale with Imbue dice, dealing 1d10 per imbue dice on a critical hit, and apply to the Force Arrows imbue. (this replaces the current force arrows on-crit 1d10)
If you see any other bugs or have further feedback on balance let us know!
Now just add a multiselector capstone for AA with +4 wisdom and add +enchant DC to both. Then AA will be in a really good spot.
 

Smokewolf

Well-known member
Arcane-Archer should have selectable, Wis / Dex for Ranger based builds, and Intel for any (rare) WIZ-AA's. Setting a singular stat capstone would eliminate several builds that are currently possible, though not optimal.
 
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Rincewind

Well-known member
Now just add a multiselector capstone for AA with +4 wisdom and add +enchant DC to both. Then AA will be in a really good spot.
Also let us have an elemental imbue and an effect imbue at the same time. hell some of this special arrows need a rework anyway...
 

somenewnoob

Well-known member
Whyyyy do you keep doing this, SSG?

Why do you keep making these huge, horrible unforced errors? This is the Amber Temple last preview all over again

No one was complaining about Imbue damage being OP. It was not rendering non-Imbue builds irrelevant. It was not giving you more power for the opportunity cost than other build pathways. Spellpower imbues were not making MP/RP imbues irrelevant either; both have their niche in the game right now, as you would expect: one for hybrid caster/melee, one for pure martial builds.

It was not a problem, but you're trying to solve it like it was a problem

If you want to standardize spellpower imbues, sure that's fine. But dont do it by nerfing all the imbues people are actually using to suck as much as the imbues we're not. This will totally gut my EK/PM inqui, for one, since he uses his Acid Spellsword. I dont understand why you'd spend so much time and effort creating and supporting the Imbue system as an alternative to purely phys/crit/sneak damage builds, a system that's been largely successful, and then suddenly and arbitrarily just turn and throw it in the dumpster like this

You just Order 66ed imbue builds


Look at all these cool new imbues!!
(and in 5........4......3......2....)
Look at us nerf all these cool new imbues!

(I will reserve a grave next to my EK/PM inquis Threnor for you.......may we both RIP)
 
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CBDunk

Well-known member
I would like you to look at an overall balance look at the amount of AP requested for abilities in Tier 5s. It seems very imbalanced. For example:
  • Assassin: 11
  • FVS warsoul: 9
  • Kensei: 5
  • Pale Master: 10
  • Ninja Spy: 10
  • Air Savant: 11
  • Vanguard: 12
  • Ravager: 9
  • Swash: 8
They are all over the place.

Based on these numbers, no.

All but one are in the range: 10 +/- 2. Even reducing that to 10 +/- 1 only drops out Vanguard and Swashbuckler.

Thus, Kensei is the only significant outlier.
 

Sholekar

Well-known member
  • New: Arcane Archer core 1's enhancement bonus now stacks with everything.
  • New: Arcane Archer's tier 5 Improved Elemental Arrow's critical hits now scale with Imbue dice, dealing 1d10 per imbue dice on a critical hit, and apply to the Force Arrows imbue. (this replaces the current force arrows on-crit 1d10)
Thank you for fixing the cores to be useful!

Could the imbue crit be decoupled from the imbue dice and maybe make the imbue dice be either a part of (or a multiselecter with) Runebow?
 

Requiro

Member
  • New: Arcane Archer core 1's enhancement bonus now stacks with everything.
  • New: Arcane Archer's tier 5 Improved Elemental Arrow's critical hits now scale with Imbue dice, dealing 1d10 per imbue dice on a critical hit, and apply to the Force Arrows imbue. (this replaces the current force arrows on-crit 1d10)
If you see any other bugs or have further feedback on balance let us know!
AA core 1 - finally this will be a useful skill. A good change. Still, it's a shame about that 25% nerf in Imbue Damage.

Are you perhaps planning to reduce the cost in the DWS tree? In particular Tier 5 and SL'a Lesser Vigor?
Generally the line regarding Wild Empathy in DWS is very weak and it costs a lot. Similar to the additional skills for Favoered Enemy on Tier 1 and 3.
 

Svirfneblin

Well-known member
I obviously do understand the reasoning behind this change but please consider the Stormsingers are nowhere near the top of the heap right now. In fact, after the R7+ nerf to caster damage Stormsingers are probably below the median…nerf Stormsingers will become outright weak. Nerfing things that are not OP is just not wise - nerf the OP stuff instead.

Thus, unless the intention actually is to make Stormsingers weak - please reconsider or add something else to the Stormsinger tree.
Over nerfing spell dps?….

Muh ha ha ha ha ha.

WARLOCK says “Hi, Welcome to the club. Your Weak DPS Membership Card will arrive in the mail next week.”
 

Requiro

Member
Based on these numbers, no.

All but one are in the range: 10 +/- 2. Even reducing that to 10 +/- 1 only drops out Vanguard and Swashbuckler.

Thus, Kensei is the only significant outlier.
What about Tempest with 13 and Mechnic with 12? IMO 10 should be the maximum at Tier 5, and ideally it should be 9 (so you can take all Tier 5 skills and Core 18 and have Capstone for 41 AP)
 

Kielbasa

Well-known member
I would like you to look at an overall balance look at the amount of AP requested for abilities in Tier 5s. It seems very imbalanced. For example:
  • Assassin: 11
  • FVS warsoul: 9
  • Kensei: 5
  • Pale Master: 10
  • Ninja Spy: 10
  • Air Savant: 11
  • Vanguard: 12
  • Ravager: 9
  • Swash: 8
They are all over the place. One way to reduce costs is to make 1AP/rank, 3 ranks stuff go for 2 AP for whole layer; combine some to reduce costs as well, and maybe add something interesting or increase costs (Kensei at 5 AP tier 5? Really?). I think 9 AP is a good standard for tier 5 costs.

Capstone requires 40 AP so if you need 30 AP to get to tier 5, it should not cost more than 10 AP to get the best of a tree and a capstone IMHO.


You forgot all of the worst offenders:

Tempest costs 13
Occult Slayer costs 13
Warchanter costs 14
Sacred Defender costs 14
Arcanotechnician costs 14

I would love for most 3 ap abilities in T5s to get an ap cost reduction.
 

Spook

Well-known member
On the flip side not all T5s are equal like on my Frenzied Berzerker builds I will only put 3 points into T5 as the other abilities are bad whereas on a tempest i have to drop useful abilities.
 
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