U66 Preview 2: Tumble Changes

[mikarddo]

Have not read through the whole thread yet, but it is possible to,
1. for every 15 Tumble points, add +1 maximum Charge; but hard capped to 10 Charges maximum
2. for every 20 Tumble points, decrease 1 second of Charge Time; but hard capped it to no less then 3 seconds

Lord no, you are way off base as far as I am concerned. You would be making it far too good.

 

[Erofen]

Regardless of what bonuses you end up giving the new tumble, please leave the old tumble alone. Tie the charges and bonuses and stuff to the experimental tumbles only.

 

[Kobay]

Regardless of what bonuses you end up giving the new tumble, please leave the old tumble alone. Tie the charges and bonuses and stuff to the experimental tumbles only.

I mean, I imagine the point of the "experimental" tumble is to eventually replace the old tumble once they feel comfortable enough in the way that it works. That being said, given the time-line they give these sorts of things, it is probably a while before they fully commit to it. It's hard to say though.

 

[Baahb3]

Not to create a big tangent to the Tumble changes. But with these changes, do you think you could look at adding something "reactive" to shield blocking? Some sort of percentage based DR for physical (and maybe magical) damage for that same 1s, based on the type of shield you are blocking with, buckler, light, heavy, tower.

It would give those that don't want to tumble a defensive 'reaction' too. As an 18 year tank vet, I would approve of this addition.

 

[mikarddo]

Please consider bards doing songs.

 

[Zvdegor]

Dont want to read through all the pages but is there a change in the icons?
Will be the icons movable or they stick to my character with the other 3 things together ???

Already have:
- Runerm UI
- Artificer Drones (2-3 different ones)
- Reaper wings

Already a pain to solve puzzles, do jumps or even see the actions in front of me because of the too many centralised icons.
There is purple + yellow + light blue and now green icons which aren't static lights but turning/loading on and off non stop.
This is very bad for the CNS and makes me feel getting an epileptic attack after playing a few mins.

Pls make every icons be placed anywhere on the screen by players!!!

Many thx!

 

[noinfoavailable]

Hi all! Thank you all so much for your lovely and passionate feedback. Quick update on this mechanic:

We've slightly tweaked the eligibility for the Dodge bonus from Tumbling. Now, when you tumble while wearing Medium Armor, you gain +75% dodge. Furthermore, tumbling in Heavy Armor will now grant you +50% dodge. Tumbling in light or no armor will continue to grant you +95% dodge. We hope this adjustment helps preserve the disparity in gameplay between armor styles by helping lightly armored characters feel a lot more nimble while dodging around.



By default, players start with 2 charges. Those charges return once every 8 seconds. You can get two additional charges (for a maximum of 4) - one from the feat Mobility and one from Thief-Acrobat's 3rd core.

So if we are looking to preserve the disparity, medium and heavy at end game actually are less desirable due to dodge being king. Is there something that can be done to improve the medium/heavy crew? I will admit this is a very limited "buff" in any case but still they seem to be being double penalised since they also get armour check penalties and would need to invest in that anyway?

 

[Eme]

Regardless of what bonuses you end up giving the new tumble, please leave the old tumble alone. Tie the charges and bonuses and stuff to the experimental tumbles only.

totally agree. Would much rather keep the old tumble. This dodge bonus just seems like smoke and mirrors and a way to stagger and add more stutter to gameplay for something that was about flow.

 

[Elminster]

Just to confirm... tumble (including the benefits offered) is not going to be restricted by armor type. Correct?

So... A tank, wearing heavy armor and a tower shield is going against a boss :
- Intimidate
- Tumble (my heavy armor/ tower shield wielding tank now has 95% dodge).
... wait and then repeat... 5 times (Mobility of course).
After 1 second without 95% dodge I have gained another Tumble charge and do it again.

Six out of seven seconds my tank has 95% dodge. The entire time the rest of the party has been beating on the back of the boss. If that still isn't enough, I can then pop my Hood of Unrest and continue to intimidate until the party has finished the boss off.

If tumble is not going to be restricted by armor type, perhaps the dodge bonus should be. 95%/ 75%/ 50%/ 25% for Cloth/ Light/ Medium/ Heavy respectively. Although the thought of tumbling in heavy armor is still ludicrous.

Thank you for massively nerfing my tank before this mechanic even made it out of the cradle...

We've slightly tweaked the eligibility for the Dodge bonus from Tumbling. Now, when you tumble while wearing Medium Armor, you gain +75% dodge. Furthermore, tumbling in Heavy Armor will now grant you +50% dodge. Tumbling in light or no armor will continue to grant you +95% dodge. We hope this adjustment helps preserve the disparity in gameplay between armor styles by helping lightly armored characters feel a lot more nimble while dodging around.

 

[SunTzu]

This seems like an issue to me, at least. Light and medium are already heavily incentivized due to dodge cap, and this will make light/cloth even more appealing. I don't think this is a good thing.

Now, I understand that it fits thematically. It really does. But from an armor type balance point of view, it only makes the existing problem even more pronounced.

light/cloth have MRR penalty.

 

[Dandonk]

light/cloth have MRR penalty.

Not quite. They have a cap on it. That can be raised.

But yes, you'll generally have lower MRR with light/cloth than on heavier armor.

But going from evasion + 40-50% dodge to higher MRR and perhaps 10% dodge on heavy...

Now medium is sometimes used, since there's no MRR cap and you can still get a decent dodge, but from my point of view, at least, the lighter armor types are already much more useful for most builds and they don't really need more buffing. Even if the mechanic fits well. Though perhaps we could get an armor revamp that'd make heavier armor types more useful again someday.

 

[SunTzu]

Not quite. They have a cap on it. That can be raised.

But yes, you'll generally have lower MRR with light/cloth than on heavier armor.

But going from evasion + 40-50% dodge to higher MRR and perhaps 10% dodge on heavy...

Now medium is sometimes used, since there's no MRR cap and you can still get a decent dodge, but from my point of view, at least, the lighter armor types are already much more useful for most builds and they don't really need more buffing. Even if the mechanic fits well. Though perhaps we could get an armor revamp that'd make heavier armor types more useful again someday.

See actual number of MRR cap. 50 and 100. Way worse than medium and heavy armor. And those MRR numbers don't have cooltime, it's passive.

 

[Elminster]

See actual number of MRR cap. 50 and 100. Way worse than medium and heavy armor.

to get to said MRR cap is a chore... however.... it may become much easier as the level cap gets raised but the MRR cap stays as is if you know what I mean.

 

[Dandonk]

See actual number of MRR cap. 50 and 100. Way worse than medium and heavy armor.

I know what the cap is, but I'm not sure of your point?

I stand by my experience, having tried all kinds, that lighter armor types are better for most builds as it stands, average over all types of damage taken while questing.*

* I don't run push raids, so can't speak for those. I do run r10 quests, and regular pug raids.

 

[SunTzu]

I know what the cap is, but I'm not sure of your point?

I stand by my experience, having tried all kinds, that lighter armor types are better for most builds as it stands, average over all types of damage taken while questing.*

* I don't run push raids, so can't speak for those. I do run r10 quests, and regular pug raids.

Have you ever seen any caster who want light armor?
I've seen so many casters in medium or heavy armor.
If light armor is better for most builds, why are ZERO casters using it?

I usually solo R10s.

 

[Elminster]

Have you ever seen any caster who want light armor?
I've seen so many casters want medium or heavy armor.
I usually solo R10s.

casters don't tank high reapers. you want light armor + evasion since no amount of PRR/AC will save you in R10 quests.

But like I said as the ease of MRR increases the cap on light armor is going to be a massive nerf/disadvantage.

 

[Dandonk]

Have you ever seen any caster who want light armor?
I've seen so many casters want medium or heavy armor.
I usually solo R10s.

Well, yes. I've seen a fair amount of casters who use evasion, but you're right, also many who use medium. Not so many with heavy, though.

Good on you. I suspect our experiences must differ, then, since I don't normally solo - we low man stuff, but I don't solo them. Maybe taking ALL the damage yourself make for a different experience?

For me, though, I haven't found that the MRR cap disadvantage normally outweighs evasion + huge dodge. Or maybe my experience is different since I'm normally a tankyish melee and you maybe play caster or something and can kite the physical attacks better, but are more often hit with spells?

 

[DBZ]

Alchemists are using robes and light armor with no fail evasion

Low mrr on some r10s or raids can hurt like grims boss fight that mechanic usually 1 shots most light armored toons and monks

 

[SunTzu]

Well, yes. I've seen a fair amount of casters who use evasion, but you're right, also many who use medium. Not so many with heavy, though.

Good on you. I suspect our experiences must differ, then, since I don't normally solo - we low man stuff, but I don't solo them. Maybe taking ALL the damage yourself make for a different experience?

For me, though, I haven't found that the MRR cap disadvantage normally outweighs evasion + huge dodge. Or maybe my experience is different since I'm normally a tankyish melee and you maybe play caster or something and can kite the physical attacks better, but are more often hit with spells?

Roll a robe caster, face 2+ fear reapers on R10. And you can return here, and talk about the result.

 

[DBZ]

Yeah takes practice kill em fast or get out of range

Esoteric gives 30 mrr cap so its still decent