U68 Preview 1: Wild Mage Sorcerer Archetype

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Bjond

Well-known member
Developers do not invest this far into a feature only to cut it basically ever, this is not going to be an exception.
IMHO, the entire archetype would be MUCH better served with random magnitude changes rather than random useless fluff; eg. CL and/or power is increased or decreased based on good/bad surge. CC'ing or hurting the caster is horrifically bad; that should not be done.

You can add a "bad" surge to the party as effects-only (sound & graphic); eg. entire party gets dog heads, barks, and howls instead of regular anims for abilities. It's annoying or/and funny (depending on mood), but doesn't actually harm play.
 

Edrein

Well-known member
Design Goals
  • Strong multiclass support with Warlock, Bard, FvS, Chaos Domain Cleric, and sub-support for Alc and Art
  1. Some additional notes/thoughts for multiclass support.
  2. Universally add a T2 multiselector that branches to reinforce other classes such as;
    1. Warlock: A new pact that changes your pact damage to Chaos and gives you access to the new chaos spells as Pact spells. For Acolyte of the Skin this changes all 'fire' effects to Chaos and Enlightened Spirit swaps Light to Chaos.
    2. FVS: Lantern archon changes to a chaotic orb and deals chaotic damage instead of light.
    3. Bard: Fascinate applies Confusion on save/completion of the fascinate effect.
    4. Cleric/Alch: Can use Cha instead of Wisdom for spell DCs
    5. Arti: Runearm uses Cha for DCs and counts as a spell for Wildsurges. Spells can use Cha for DCs as well.
  3. My Next Suggestion is for a T5 multiselector based on prerequisites from Multiclassing and is dependent on taking enhancements from the matching trees. Note that these are balanced on the fact that they require you to commit to T5 in Wild Mage, preventing you from taking a potentially more powerful T5 from these effected multiclass tree:
    1. Warlock:
      1. Enlightened Spirit: If you have Spirit Retribution you gain a toggle to switch from light damage to chaotic.
      2. Soul Eater: Consume, Stricken, and Steal Lifeforce now deal 1d6 chaos damage per Character Level opposed to their previous scale formula. (Soul Eater could use a similar boost for pure warlocks, but I think this is a neat multiclass bonus for wild mage splashing)
      3. Tainted Scholar: If you have Utterdark Blast you gain a toggle to switch from Evil damage to Chaotic.
      4. Acolyte of the Skin: If you have Drink Their Fear you extend double pact damage to any enemy also affected by confusion or dazed.
    2. Bard:
      1. Spellsinger: If you have Blue Marigold Crown your illusion spells gain a chance to confuse and daze enemies. If you have Violet Marigold Crown your sonic spells gain a chance to stun similar to the spell Soundburst. If you have Yellow Marigold Crown your spells have a chance to dance enemies.
      2. Stormsinger: If you have Lighting Strike any time you proc or an ally proc a lightning strike you deal an additional 1d6 chaos damage per character level.
      3. Warchanter: If you have Iced Edges you gain a new toggle that changes your imbue to Chaos damage. Additionally while toggled you deal 1d6 Chaos damage to Frozen Enemies if you take rank 3 of Northwind.
      4. Swashbuckler: If you have Arcane Marauder you gain all of the defensive bonuses of the Wild Mage tree while swashbuckling and wearing light armor.
    3. FVS:
      1. Angel of Vengeance: If you have Scourge your Chaos damage spells can now proc the effects of this and Just Rewards.
      2. Beacon of Hope: If you have Shining Light enemies struck are subjected to confusion and an actual daze effect.
      3. War Soul: If you have Fires of Fury you deal an additional 1d6 chaos damage per imbue die while the imbue is active. Additionally Ameliorating Strike can proc a Wild Surge. (War Priest doesn't get a bonus, as this is intended to give FVS a bit of love.)
    4. Chaos Domain Cleric:
      1. If you have 5 levels of cleric and gain the Chaos Hammer SLA your Chaos Hammer spell is upgraded as if you had Balance of Power from Divine Disciple. (Chaos Hammer now deal their increased damage to all enemies, regardless of alignment)
    5. Alch:
      1. Bombardier: If you have Burning Ambition your Burning Ambition damage type is now chaotic and you gain benefits to Chaotic Spells while in Pyrite Reaction. (Including the caster level cores.)
      2. Apocathary: If you have Curative Admixture: Inflict Light Wounds your Inflict spells and Spill The Bad Stuff gain an additional 1d6 chaos damage per character level. Your Verdanite Reaction also applies to chaotic spells.
      3. Vile Chemist: If you have Poisoned Coating you deal an additional 1d6 chaos damage per imbue die while the imbue is active. Additionally your Orchidium Reaction grants you the same spellpower bonuses to your chaotic spellpower.
    6. Arti:
      1. Arcanotechnician: If you take Shocking Vulnerability your chaotic spells will now apply stacks of vulnerable as well. Additionally if you take Arcane Engine your homunculus will project an aura of chaos dealing 1d6+1 per character level damage every 8 seconds. As well as using your character level as the basis for pet level. (Allowing you to actually gear the pet, though good luck keeping it alive.)
      2. Battle Engineer: If you take Thundershock Imbue you deal an additional 2d6 chaos damage per imbue dice while the imbue is active. (BE has the lowest imbue dice available of all imbues, this is a good place to give them an interesting flavor boost.)
      3. Renegade Mastermaker: If you take Battlefist your Battlefist will use character level rather than artificer level for damage calculations and deal an additional 1d6 chaos damage per character level.
 

Elminster

Former Pollster, Beloved by the DDO Forums.
IMHO, the entire archetype would be MUCH better served with random magnitude changes rather than random useless fluff; eg. CL and/or power is increased or decreased based on good/bad surge. CC'ing or hurting the caster is horrifically bad; that should not be done.

You can add a "bad" surge to the party as effects-only (sound & graphic); eg. entire party gets dog heads, barks, and howls instead of regular anims for abilities. It's annoying or/and funny (depending on mood), but doesn't actually harm play.
But it has to be done.

If they are doing Myth Drannor and are going to be somewhat faithful to the lore hey absolutely cannot take this portion out, that (the Mythal) and The Phaerimm would be the two hallmarks of Myth Drannor.
 

Nimueh

Member
Man...

I came back just a while ago and saw the Year of the dragon stuff - final one is that draconic acolyte or whatever and I was like cool a sorc archetype - ok I guess I was wrong because they're doing a sorc archetype here (unless they plan on doing 2 sorc archetypes...? possible but that would be kinda lame).

Anyways whatever, lets see what they got - oh... they made a weird class based around RNG... Boy does that sound fun - Can't want to have a horrible time. I get that its MD & they wanted to do wild magic which is cool and all but can someone please point me to one time where RNG on a class in any MMO has ever been fun? FFXIV Bard or Astrologian, Lost Ark Arcanist. Those are actually some of my classes. Now what do they all have in common? THE RNG IS ALL BUFF's NOT PENALTIES.

But Nimrod. You can remove the negative things by going into the wildmage tree - Dude... you are a wild mage - that is your pure study. You should get that by default not have to waste points training it - what does that benefit in other content? everyone else is getting useful stuff and you are sitting there wasting your precious AP so you don't penalize yourself by making you a squirrel...

I propose this solution. Follow in the ways of the people that did it right and make wild magic for wild mages just buffs and make them *good* buffs and if you wanna be really nice, some indicator of what you have for a buff to use it efficiently. Make the buffs something like:
  • The next spell you cast will have its cooldown timer instantly reset
  • The next spell you cast will automatically be a critical hit
  • The next spell you cast will grant you 250 temporary spell points
  • The next spell you cast will also apply the heal spell to yourself
  • The next spell you cast will apply double the damage (maybe 2 strong...)
  • The next spell you cast will boost your spellpower by 50 for 20 seconds
If they are really dead set on making it as unfun as possible and making the negatives stay a thing for wild mages (please don't)
  • The next spell you cast will be cast as a random element instead of the primary Ex: Fireball will deal ice damage and not scale with firespellpower.
  • The next spell you cast will apply a debuff for 20 seconds of -100 spellpower.
  • The next spell you cast will deal half damage.
I don't know but don't make people useless for 8 seconds or give them 50% spell failure. Better yet - please don't do it at all and don't make us waste AP on this stuff. A level 20 Wild Mage should already be proficient at casting in wild magic areas... yet you tell me if I don't take an enhancement I am still bad at it? Even though I am near a god tier wild mage? Pathetic.

But I do like the idea of the zones for other classes.... Besides wild mage...

Maybe change those points to give OTHER BUFFS to wild mages... While in these zones you gain +x benefit...
 
Hello, and welcome to the first preview of the Wild Mage (Sorcerer) Archetype! Based on the classic Wild Mage prestige class, Wild Mages are Sorcerers who tap into chaos and luck when they cast their spells. Before we dive into the archetype though, here's some important context:

What is Wild Magic in DDO?
Wild Magic is a system you'll see in the Myth Drannor content as well as a focal point of this Archetype (where it works in any content).

Essentially, while Wild Magic is active, you have a chance to get Wild Magic Surges that make extra magical effects occur the next time you cast a spell. You can get Surges over time, which set up for the next spell you cast. Wild Mages also have a chance to get a Surge after casting a spell. When you cast a spell while a Surge is active, your spell still resolves normally, anything that comes from a Surge is additional. The results of these surges fall into pools of Very Bad, Bad, Neutral, Good, and Very Good, based on how likely they are to be beneficial to their caster. The Wild Mage Archetype always has Wild Magic active, as a class feature.

There is an internal cooldown on how often you can get Surges, though certain abilities can give you "Rapid Surge", reducing or bypassing that cooldown.

You can find more detailed information about Wild Surges here:
https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/u68-preview-1-wild-magic-surges-general-info.11689/

That all said, let's dive into the Archetype!

Design Goals
  • Create an archetype that fits with the Wild Magic theme of Myth Drannor
  • Strong multiclass support with Warlock, Bard, FvS, Chaos Domain Cleric, and sub-support for Alc and Art
Class Trees:
  • NEW: Wild Mage
  • Fire Savant
  • Water Savant
  • Air Savant
  • Earth Savant
Changes vs. Base Sorcerer:
  • You gain the Wild Mage feat at level 1 (see below)
  • Eldritch Knight Tree is replaced with Wild Mage tree
  • Spell List:
    • You have access to Chaos Bolt (new) as a level 1 Sorcerer Spell (see SLA in the tree - The spell version only uses CHA for its DC, however.)
    • You have access to Chaos Ball (new) as a level 3 Sorcerer Spell (see SLA in the tree - The spell version only uses CHA for its DC, however.)
    • You have access to Chaos Hammer as a level 4 Sorcerer Spell
New Feats:
  • Wild Mage:
    • Automatically granted at Wild Mage 1
    • You have a small chance over time and when casting spells to incur a Wild Magic Surge. This can have a variety of positive or negative effects.
Unless specifically listed, assume the class is otherwise identical to Sorcerer.

Alignment Note: Wild Mage has no alignment restrictions.

Wild Mage Tree
  • Cores
    • Core 1: Determination
      • +1 Will Saving Throw
      • +10 Chaos Spell Power. (Chaos Spell Power is part of Alignment Spell Power).
    • Core 2:
      • Boldness: +1 Caster Level with Chaos Spells
      • +10 Chaos Spell Power
      • +10 Universal Spell Power
    • Core 3:
      • SLA: Riches of Randomness: Once per Rest, target an unopened chest and twist fate for a chance at better rewards for the entire party. Chests can only be improved in this way one time, and there is a chance of failure based on your Charisma. (There is no special drawback on failure.) Some chests cannot be improved in this manner. This effect does not stack with Treasure Finding from the Greater Dragonmark of Finding.
      • +10 Chaos Spell Power
    • Core 4: Entropic Energy
      • You gain +1 Caster Level and Max Caster Level when casting any spell.
      • +10 Chaos Spell Power, +10 Universal Spell Power, +1% chance of incurring a Wild Magic Surge when casting a spell. You may use Riches of Randomness one additional time per Rest.
    • Core 5: Reject Limits
      • You gain +1 Caster Level and Max Caster Level when casting any spell.
      • +10 Chaos Spell Power, +10 Universal Spell Power.
    • Core 6:
      • Channel Entropy: SLA: A field of chaotic energy strikes the target and nearby enemies, dealing 19 to 24 Chaos damage per caster level (max 380 to 480). A successful Will save reduces the damage by half. D&D Dice: Deals 1d6+18 Chaos damage per caster level, max caster level 20.
      • +4 CHA, +10 Chaos Spell Power, +10 Universal Spell Power, +x% chance of incurring a Wild Magic Surge when casting a spell. You may use Riches of Randomness one additional time per Rest.
  • Tier 1
    • SLA: Chaos Bolt: Fires a small orb of Chaos at a target, doing 1d6+2 Chaos Damage per caster level (max 10d6+20 at caster level 10).
      • (This is based on the <Element> Bolt spells, and you can assume it works identically.)
    • Lucky Dodge: +1/2/3 Dodge while wearing no armor. Rank 3: While wearing no armor, you gain +1d6 Dodge Cap. The die is rerolled once per minute.
    • Student of Chaos I: +1/2/3% chance of incurring a Wild Magic Surge when casting a spell.
    • Tides of Chaos I: Once per minute, you gain a +1/2/3 bonus to one of Reflex, Fortitude, or Will Saving Throws for one minute.
    • Skills: +1/2/3 Spellcraft, Concentration, and Bluff.
  • Tier 2
    • Action Boost: Wild Magic: For the next 20 seconds, your chances of getting a Wild Magic Surge are improved by 5/10/15%.
    • Chaos Control I: If you would get a Very Bad Wild Magic Surge, you get a Bad Surge instead.
    • Student of Chaos II: +1/2/3% chance of incurring a Wild Magic Surge when casting a spell.
    • Tides of Chaos II: Once per minute, when you incur a Wild Magic Surge, you gain a defensive buff that scales with Wild Mage level and lasts for 20 seconds..
    • Chaotic Mind: Your mind is harder to comprehend; you are immune to Dominate Person/Monster, Command and Greater Command as per the Protection from Evil spell.
  • Tier 3
    • SLA: Chaos Sphere: Launches a chaotic orb that explodes on impact, dealing 1d6 Chaos Damage per caster level (up to a max of 10d6 Chaos Damage at caster level 10) to targets in the area. A successful Will save reduces the damage by half. This SLA uses the highest of your INT, WIS, and CHA in its DC calculation, and uses the higher of your Evocation and Conjuration DCs for its spell school.
      • (This is based on Lightning Sphere, and you can assume it works identically).
    • Chaos Control II: If you would get a Very Bad or Bad Wild Magic Surge, you get a Neutral one instead. (requires Chaos Control I).
    • Student of Chaos III: +1/2/3% chance of incurring a Wild Magic Surge when casting a spell.
    • Power in Chaos: Toggle: You gain +100 Universal Spell Power, but are able to receive Very Bad and Bad Surges even if you have Chaos Control I or II.
    • Ability Score: Multiselector:
      • INT
      • WIS
      • CHA
  • Tier 4
    • Unpredictable Consequences: Your Chaos Bolt, Chaos Sphere, and Channel Entropy spells and SLAs now add additional damage, debuff, or crowd control effects when cast. If the target saves for half damage on Chaos Sphere, the additional effects are negated.
    • Multiselector:
      • Unstable Sorcery: While wearing no armor, you gain 2% Spell Critical Damage.
      • Mixed Magics: Your Wild Mage levels count for calculating Caster Levels in other spellcasting classes you have at least 1 level in.
    • Student of Chaos IV: +1/2/3% chance of incurring a Wild Magic Surge when casting a spell.
    • Tides of Chaos III: +2/4/6% Chaos Spell Crit Chance.
    • Ability Score: Multiselector:
      • INT
      • WIS
      • CHA
  • Tier 5
    • SLA: Wildstrike: Surround target adversary with rainbows, dealing dealing 1d6+6 Chaos Damage per caster level (Maximum damage 10d6+60). Every 2 seconds for 8 seconds, affected enemies take a random effect.
    • Bend Luck: You gain Bend Luck: Whenever you fail a Saving Throw, you reroll that Saving Throw and take the second result. This stacks with Slippery Mind, but does not stack with other sources of Bend Luck.
    • Rapid Surge: Active: For the next 15 seconds, you gain Wild Surges very rapidly.
    • Random Deflector: While wearing no armor, you gain +1d100 MRR Cap. This die is rerolled once per minute.
    • Tides of Chaos IV: -2 to all Spell DCs. Whenever you cast a spell with a DC, you gain +1d6 to the DC of that spell.
      • (This averages to +1 to +2, as most T5 DC boosts are +1 to +2. You have a chance for a -1, but also a chance at a +4.)
      • (We are aware that many players may not like the kind of randomness this brings, but it is part of the theme - we would rather buff it than cut it.)


Past Life:

TBD
Love new ideas! Could you include Prismatic Ray/Spray SLA's in the tree? Seems to fit the Chaotic randomness of Wild Mage :D
 

Rull

Well-known member
  • Mixed Magics: Your Wild Mage levels count for calculating Caster Levels in other spellcasting classes you have at least 1 level in.
You can safely put that in core1 instead of tier4 and you'll still hardly make your design goal of strong multiclass support.

Currently in DDO, casters are very very bad to multiclasss. Losing capstone/core5, losing caster levels and losing higher level spells all add up. Eliminating one of these factors will not impact the general status quo, although I admire the effort. Wild Mage will just be 'very bad' to multiclass, instead of 'very very bad' like other casters. But you will not meet your design goal of "Strong multiclass support with Warlock, Bard, FvS, Chaos Domain Cleric"

In fact, you can make it a general rule in DDO: "caster levels now add up" for any caster, and it will not be unbalancing. You'll still hardly see a multiclass caster because of missing cores and, if they go deeper, lvl9 spells. But the few that will arise will be a fun addition (I'd advice to emphasize it by putting +10/20/30 positive spellpower low in cleric and fvs and such). Maybe an idea for update 75.
 

Wini

Well-known member
I hate RNG but I could try this archetype for funsies.

What I don't quite understand is what's really good about it. Heroic SLAs that don't scale well in epics? Not a single new level 9 spell? I also don't see a clear line of support in EDs. I'm not totally closed to playing this character, as I say, but I'd like to understand what his goal is. Does it have more DPS than a savant? Is it a class that's just looking to spam like a Shiradi?

Just waiting for the next previews :)
 

Zaszgul

Well-known member
Idea for a new core or high tier enhancement, to loop in the various "rainbow" spells, since the list of "chaos" spells is so short. Or maybe dispersed through the cores, roughly when these spells become available.

Fractured Prism: Your radiant spells are refracted through chaos, imbuing them with extra effects! Your (Greater) Color Spray spells now deal 1d7 chaos damage. Prismatic Ray and Prismatic Spray now always hit with a second beam, and also deal 1d10 chaos damage. Hypnotic Pattern, Sunburst and Otto's Sphere of Dancing now inflict one of the possible effects of Color Spray or Prismatic Spray.

For Otto's ball, I expect you'd proc an effect every ~3 seconds or whatever interval it tries to re-dance you. Hypnotic Pattern I think it's only once. And yes it's possible you'd get some redundant effects (e.g. blind attached to Sunburst which already blinds) -- that's fine.



And, a new spell idea, to replace Summon Monster 1 (or even the entire line):
Summon Chaos Orb (possibly I II III, etc): You conjure forth a swirling sphere of chaos straight from Xoriat, which creates random effects on enemies it comes in contact with. The orb does not have hitpoints, does not draw aggro, refuses all commands, and will simply wander aimlessly in the caster's vicinity. Duration: 10 minutes.

Level 1 version would just be the exact same Chaos Orbs you find in most Xoriat quests, with the same chances of debuffing, buffing or damaging them. If you replace the entire summon line up to IX then they'd cast stronger spells of course (more caster levels, higher DCs, more spellpower, maybe different pool of higher spells), but otherwise not behave differently. Directly afflicts enemies only, although buffing those enemies indirectly hurts the caster and allies of course. It will probably need runspeed +100% to be much practical use. For AI pathing, idk if "move in random patterns near my master" is a thing, it may need to "move to" a random person/enemy in LOS and swap targets every 6 seconds or so, to emulate random patterns.
 

Elminster

Former Pollster, Beloved by the DDO Forums.
I think this whole Wild Magic thing is being blown WAY out of proportion by the player base.

Try it before you knock it
. I betcha this thing is going to be a massive buff to casters.
 

woq

Well-known member
I completely agree, but if you are inviting a sorc to a raid for cc, instakills, etc. why not make that a wild mage as the party buffs x11 is likely a differentiator vs. a savant. At this point it's premature to quantify the benefits, but adding party buffs x11 may end up being impactful enough to warrant having a wild mage rather than a savant.
But if the difference is between WM buffs/debuffs and Falconry debuffs or other universal trees... I wonder.
 
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Warsaga

present day - present time
I hate RNG but I could try this archetype for funsies.

What I don't quite understand is what's really good about it. Heroic SLAs that don't scale well in epics? Not a single new level 9 spell? I also don't see a clear line of support in EDs. I'm not totally closed to playing this character, as I say, but I'd like to understand what his goal is. Does it have more DPS than a savant? Is it a class that's just looking to spam like a Shiradi?

Just waiting for the next previews :)
Hmm, they probably threw the concept of "good" out the window. I'm not personally opposed to more flavor options, but yes, it should retain at least the same level of competitiveness as other sorc trees.
 

Sol

Member
Thinking about it a bit, a few people still worried about the RNG and I think the best solution is to establish a new rule around Wild Surges that makes it so that regardless of the surges that occur, the player won't be hard CCed without counterplay, and the player won't be able to stop casting due to the effect of a wild magic.

Basically, unconditional stuns, roots, silences, ASF, ect should be thrown out. It doesn't matter how good a class is to multiclass with when it also provides the equivalent of a small amount of arcane spell failure to your spellcaster. Nobody wants to take a buff to damage when there is a 1-5% chance sometimes that you won't be able to play your character.

Some effects could increase cast time or slow down the player a bit. I think short, temporary blindness is a fine negative effect too as DDO is a game where you can uniquely play around it, and hell, I think dropping a fireball on the party occasionally is fine as a negative effect (as long as it doesn't scale with the player because that will actually cause entire party wipes (also I'm aware of the rule against inconveniencing other party members I'm just trying to make a point)), but it's the hard CC that I think will rub most folks the wrong way.

And, of course, all that aside I'm absolutely the sort of player that wants Wild Mage to be accurately portrayed. I want negative effects. I want risk mitigation. I think they can lead to a compelling and unique archetype for a spellcaster, but nobody is going to want to use a class, fun or not, when sometimes you don't get to play DDO as a result of a baked in mechanic.
 
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Nickodeamous

Well-known member
This seems interesting, but honestly, RNG is not high on the totem pole of what I would want to play. Seems like it would be fun to mess with, but honestly, I'll see what the PL passives are and decide whether or not to run this ;)
 

Sarlona Raiding

Well-known member
As far as the RNG aspect of the class, I completely get the RNG fatigue - am there myself.

However, if you look at where the power of the archtype comes from the RNG portion is minimal. it's just a random bonus on top of the other stuff which you can effectively ignore - knowing you and the whole party are getting some buffs throughout the quest/raid.
 

Graceana

Stealer of Souls
I think this whole Wild Magic thing is being blown WAY out of proportion by the player base.

Try it before you knock it
. I betcha this thing is going to be a massive buff to casters.
Please stop screaming at us, because that is what the huge letters indicate.
 

Bjond

Well-known member
But it has to be done.

If they are doing Myth Drannor and are going to be somewhat faithful to the lore hey absolutely cannot take this portion out, that (the Mythal) and The Phaerimm would be the two hallmarks of Myth Drannor.
Yeah, I figured as much -- I'm not a D&D fan, though, so I don't know particulars of any modules.

Messing with the fundamentals of several classes doesn't end well. I saw that happen in EQ1 where they decided that it was OK to make some raid bosses totally immune to magic as a way to increase difficulty. It backfired horrifically. It kinda sounds OK and interesting from a story vantage, but when those who depend on it can't do anything, it's like a a giant middle-finger to every magic-user.

It's one thing to spray freon on an ant-hill and watch them freeze & thaw. It's another thing entirely to be the ant.

SSG bit off a lot here messing with magic like this. They'll need to be insanely creative to make it fun rather than devastating. I'm extremely pessimistic, but then, also even more curious. I have a feeling that it should be possible to make it fly, would love to see it soar, but won't believe it until I see it.
 
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