U69.3 Preview 1 - Raid Content

[Teh_Troll]

Isn't it better than just more monster beatdown? It does add variety. Variety is the spice of life. As pointed out, bringing differenet weapons for different quests means that people will have to think a little bit more and be more dynamic with their set ups. Sentient weapons are not condusive to weapons swapping, but that is the point. It forces us to make choices/sacrifices of enhancements, destinies, and augments that allow for DR beating instead of DPS or swapping weapons completely. Yes the smart people will adapt, the rest of us will complain and whine (I stick to my strengths) but it will add more challenge. It seems that I read very very frequently that the players do not feel that MOAR hit points on monsters is the challenge we are looking for. Well, this is the type of challenge that we could rise to meet instead of just MOAR hps on the bad guys.

It add nothing. One bad idea isn't better than another bad idea.

Have you run this raid yet? I did twice and the only reason I haven't uninstalled the game is that it's still Lamania in early preview.

 

[I dont Like gimps]

is it soloable

practically No Imma assume u could MAYBE cheese the dragon with LGS ooze and put on Sulomades for the Poison dmg of the Marilith?
but yeah Bosses are giga tanky even on Normal and soloing means u defo gonna run into some funny 1k dmg fire dot eventually (ticked for Like 1k at 50 stacks 130 mrr but no fire absorb item)

 

[woq]

To make this more "endgame player" biased and to make us MORE exclusionary as to who we allow in the groups? Do you really think that is good for the game?

No, I don't think it's good for the game. But I think DR is a viable way to make one thing or another stronger/worse; but I don't think bringing multiple weapons along for it is a good thing. Having other ways to do it or making certain weapons pay less for it is a way to balance things that is not necessarily bad.

Forcing people to have several maxed sent weapons? Horrible. I suppose i should've clarified that in my first line - DR changing the preferance of certain *builds* is not bad, but sentience makes bringing many weapons very endgame player biased (and that is bad) so it would have to be balanced around a different mechanic than multiple weapons. So I like DR, but I dislike forcing multiple weapons.

 

[axel15810]

So I just wanted to add more specific suggestions for the devs, to add on to my previous post in this thread where I was very critical of this raid's scope. Here are some ideas I'd be happy to see added to the raid.

Here's 2 examples of puzzle phases I'd love to see.

Puzzle Phase Idea 1- Make a maze phase the party has to traverse. Perhaps have the party be forced to split into 4 groups, with a maze to do in each room. So 4 mazes total. Think a rat like maze like in Another Man’s Treasure. Every maze being random each time the raid is run to increase replayability. Have a platform you have to stand on at the end of each maze. When all 4 platforms are stood on simultaneously, it teleports party to next phase. Don’t make it 4 levers or anything targetable since that could be cheesed with pets in the way Another Man’s Treasure’s maze can be. Make it so pets can’t solve it for you…that’s an issue with the Another man’s treasure puzzle. You could even make one or all of these underwater mazes, if you wanted. This would be a great puzzle phase that would be interesting for a raid party to tackle together.

Puzzle Phase Idea 2 -Use the statue puzzles in myth drannor. They’ve only been used in 1 quest. Have a puzzle section splitting the party into 8-12 individual rooms, each room with a statue puzzle to do. Have the doors in each rooms locked,, but pickable so others can come help those struggling with the puzzle or for shortman runs. Doors open when the puzzle inside is solved. You could also allow normal levers to be pulled to open the doors, but make it so it takes 1 minute load bar to pull the lever so that it incentivizes each party member to solve their own puzzle. The party advances when all puzzles are solved. Think the light puzzle phase in the shroud but with statue puzzles.

Potential ideas for other phases -

Red Light Green Light – you could bring it back. It’s still only ever been used in Deathwyrm. Have a phase with red light green light, and also mobs and physical obstacles that get in the party’s way that they have to jump and climb to get around, along with some mobs to fight. You could even add some dead magic zones here for extra obstacles. Think red light green light but more focus on platforming. Make it kinda like an obstacle course.

How about a tower defense phase? Have the party in a room with 4 towers, each ballista on its own tower. Party has to stop incoming waves of monsters and can only harm them with the ballistas. Have 4 levers in the back behind the towers that have to be pulled simultaneously to electrify the floor to confirm the kill. Once a monster is shot with a ballista, it falls down or becomes stunned for 5-10 seconds, and the 4 levers need to be pulled together to kill it during this time. Have the ballistas positioned in a way that each needs to be manned, as it can only hit mobs from a specific direction. Put space between the ballistas so not only 1 person can do it all. I’m envisioning 4 towers with a longish ladder leading up to each. Also have some trash mobs that spawn around the lever pullers, so that they need to be defended. That would be an interesting mechanic that would challenge the party to work together.

Platforming optional section – Something in platforming difficulty similar to the snowpeaks climb challenge, just as an optional. If someone in the raid wants to go off and do it, let them. Groups that hate platforming can ignore it. Make it crazy difficult. Make the reward a small amount of ingredients, and not named loot, so it doesn’t feel “required”. I think it may be best to put this section at the very end, spawning only after the end fight is done. That way those wanting to do it could go do it, and others not wanting to do it could just finish out and leave the raid.

These are just some ideas. I could go on and on. I’m not overly insistent on any one of these ideas, these are just examples of specific things I would want to see in a raid that are far more interesting than what we have now on Lamannia.

Finally, a comment on the end fight – So the current endfight requires the phylactery holder to be in a dead magic area for a bit, but perhaps instead of that, just require the entire party to fight the end boss in a wild magic area in some parts. Make the whole end fight room a wild magic area. I know wild magic areas have been optional by design throughout MD quests, but I think it’s OK to force wild magic on the party here, this is the pinacle raid. I don’t feel like forcing it on players is bad here, I think it would fine in a raid situation. If you really don't want it there the whole time, perhaps have the end fight mechanic turn the whole room into a wild magic area if trash isn't kept down to a certain level, or perhaps put it on a timer...so like 30 seconds of wild magic on/30 seconds wild magic off, repeat. Give the boss a buff that happens periodically which spawns wild magic areas maybe. I think it's ok for there to be some randomness and unpredictability in the pinnacle fight of the expansion to go along with MD’s theme.

 

[rabidfox]

No, I don't think it's good for the game. But I think DR is a viable way to make one thing or another stronger/worse; but I don't think bringing multiple weapons along for it is a good thing. Having other ways to do it or making certain weapons pay less for it is a way to balance things that is not necessarily bad.

Forcing people to have several maxed sent weapons? Horrible. I suppose i should've clarified that in my first line - DR changing the preferance of certain *builds* is not bad, but sentience makes bringing many weapons very endgame player biased (and that is bad) so it would have to be balanced around a different mechanic than multiple weapons. So I like DR, but I dislike forcing multiple weapons.

SSG just needs to move the sentient jewel to its own gear slot (with the filigrees tied directly to the jewel). Then folks can hot swap between weapons and jewels(/filigrees) independently. If they were to do that then SSG could go back to mechanics that require swapping weapons based off the fights without it being an issue; until then fight design with heavy DR shouldn't be revisited.

 

[PersonMan]

practically No Imma assume u could MAYBE cheese the dragon with LGS ooze and put on Sulomades for the Poison dmg of the Marilith?
but yeah Bosses are giga tanky even on Normal and soloing means u defo gonna run into some funny 1k dmg fire dot eventually (ticked for Like 1k at 50 stacks 130 mrr but no fire absorb item)

Incidentally the fire DoT caps at 100 stacks.

 

[woq]

Would love to see the statue puzzle used more but less in a "oh, such a hard puzzle to figure out how they work" but perhaps in larger scope and additional effects (not just a lever turning on/off). For instance: monsters protect the statues to make them harder to press and statues turn off on a timer, but while all statues are on, [something positive for players happens] or some raid mechanic (perhaps specific to the room the statues are in) is alleviated in one way or another. Either a bonus for turning all on, or the positive effect grows multiplicative depending on how many statues are lit.

The statues could be further away from eachother than how they were used in the previous raid; in a bigger room. Maybe at the edges of the dragon room...?

If you can do the raid without doing this, go for it. If you can do it or keep doing it, good for you. Something like that would be cool. I also really like the aesthetic of the statues, so they could add to the otherwise kind of bleak rooms.

 

[Epicsoul]

SSG just needs to move the sentient jewel to its own gear slot (with the filigrees tied directly to the jewel). Then folks can hot swap between weapons and jewels(/filigrees) independently. If they were to do that then SSG could go back to mechanics that require swapping weapons based off the fights without it being an issue; until then fight design with heavy DR shouldn't be revisited.

This please.

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

The length is good, the problem with long raids is that they tend to be pug-unfriendly and fewer people are willing to run those in the long run.

Is the stat squish officially abandoned? It seems like this is more than 1 level higher than fire over morgrave. I thought this was supposed to automatically scale with the new system.

 

[Teth]

practically No Imma assume u could MAYBE cheese the dragon with LGS ooze and put on Sulomades for the Poison dmg of the Marilith?
but yeah Bosses are giga tanky even on Normal and soloing means u defo gonna run into some funny 1k dmg fire dot eventually (ticked for Like 1k at 50 stacks 130 mrr but no fire absorb item)

The raid will be 100% soloable, theyll have to change it up quite a bit to make it not.

 

[Dandonk]

SSG just needs to move the sentient jewel to its own gear slot (with the filigrees tied directly to the jewel).

Yes, please.

I like to try different builds on my main. But changing weapons means changing sentient gem and all the filigrees. It's expensive each time. I really wish there wasn't this tax on trying out new builds.

 

[Phoenicis]

Yes, please.

I like to try different builds on my main. But changing weapons means changing sentient gem and all the filigrees. It's expensive each time. I really wish there wasn't this tax on trying out new builds.

Won't you still have to switch out some (most?) of the filigrees when changing builds?

 

[rabidfox]

Won't you still have to switch out some (most?) of the filigrees when changing builds?

Yes and no. If someone is running X weapon but they just got a pretty new Y weapon, if the jewel(with filigrees) was a separate item slot, they could try the new weapon with zero concern. The only time they'd need to change filigrees would be if the build required so; and there's a lot of overlap for what any given playstyle runs. I could easily use the same ranged filigree setup for arti, thrower, etc.; but right now, any time I change, I have to remove all the filigrees & jewel, and put it all right back into a new weapon.

 

[mikarddo]

How are you to use rhe rest shrine with the fire dot applying damage continually?

 

[Guntango]

Certainly by now you are aware that the entire game is centered around the elitist power gamers who do R10 raids?

Don’t brag.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

This please.

"Fiscally irresponsible", lol

 

[Vox]

Is the "smoldering weakness" fire debuff working as intended? The tooltip states the maximum stack is 10, however it goes well past this

 

[Blerkington]

SSG just needs to move the sentient jewel to its own gear slot (with the filigrees tied directly to the jewel). Then folks can hot swap between weapons and jewels(/filigrees) independently. If they were to do that then SSG could go back to mechanics that require swapping weapons based off the fights without it being an issue; until then fight design with heavy DR shouldn't be revisited.

Another good idea, Rabidfox, would like to see this done.

SSG, you really need to do something for people like this who are constantly offering quality feedback.

 

[Asterphen]

One bad idea isn't better than another bad idea.

Well... you're not wrong, but I am willing to throw another perpective out there as well. One bad idea might not be better than another bad idea, but sometimes bad ideas are less bad than other bad ideas. Usually having the 9th drink was a bad idea. But, it was a less bad idea than commemorating the comedian that I heard that night with a tattoo after consuming the 9th drink.

I think just loading the boss up with millions of hit points is a bad idea (mainly because it is boring at some point). But I think giving the boss a reasonable amount of hit points with some DR sometimes isn't a bad idea, or maybe it is a less bad idea.

Fire over Morgrave has some DR mechanics to it. I have been in many a riad who decide to kite Zweilanar over to an ice orb when he is on fire to end his masive DR. I have seen many a raid (last night as a matter of fact) who are happy to just leave Zweilanar there and just beat on him harder despite his DR for at least a couple minutes when his has massive DR. I understand the raid mechanic is designed for the party to kite him and destroy an ice orb, but sometimes the party cannot be bothered to change their actions. When Zweilanar has massive DR the party has lost effectiveness but not power. Using the ice orbs regains the party's effectiveness. Swapping weapons to beat DR means the party loses power to gain effectiveness as well. I feel like the fight against Zweilanar is one of the best boss fights in DDO raiding because of some of the mechanics in it. I like it because it can be dynamic, exciting, and there are sime unique aspects to it.

I used to swap weapons all the time. In heroics, i still swap weapons sometimes. I do not have one sentient weapon with 100k sentient xp. Across three characters I do have 5 weapons with 20k sentient xp each. I find the idea of weapon swapping because of boss DR less bad than beating on a boss forever because the boss has millions and millions of hit points.

I would prefer other mechanics instead of just "more boss hp". I would be ok with DR.

It does make me think of pen and paper DnD as well. If my DM just threw a dracolich at the party with just a bunch of HP and no extra abilities, he might kick his own ass. I would expect the DM to use all sorts of spells and abilities. One of the things that would make a dracolich so dangerous would be casting spells back at the party like mordenkainen's disjunction, time stop, dispel magic, globe of invulderability, maze, and cloud kill. I think adding all those spells to a boss might be more difficult (but not impossible) than DR. Dracoliches are usually ruled with very big SR and DR bludgening, so why not dial those up high enough to make it an issue for the raid party?

 

[Rincewind]

Here's my feedback - ran it 3x on Normal on Lam. To be 100% honest I am disappointed in the raid. Mainly due to the scope of the raid. I was hoping for a raid with length and complexity akin to Deathwyrm or Strahd or Skeletons, considering we are only getting 1 raid, not 2 like so many past full expansions, MD is not a mini expansion. Vecna Unleashed being a mini made a small scope raid like Fire Over Morgrave more acceptable. But this is a full expansion and the scope for the MD raid is basically the same as Morgrave. That's not ok. If we had 2 raids I'd feel differently.

I'm concerned we just won't get bigger scope raids ever again, if we're not getting them in a full expansion with only 1 raid.

Considering we only have 1 raid, it needed to be bigger in scope and complexity than this. More mechanics, more phases, a unique end boss, puzzles (there's no puzzles at all?), platforming optional section possibly? It's mostly just a DPS beatdown, there's very little in terms of party coordination. The map is too simple and small in scope. I don't think there's any new art assets unless I missed something.

The raid is too short considering it's the only raid in a full expansion. It doesn't feel like a grand pinnacle of an expansion the way Skeletons did. I'm assuming there's no secrets to discover either in an optional in the way Skeletons was. If there's a secret section of the raid yet to be discovered that may change my opinion.

I also have to echo the opinions of others on the raid boss - it's really disappointing we're getting a 5th dracolich raid boss. The end boss should be something new. I'm not a P&P lore expert by any means but is there not some kind of other big bad in Myth Drannor we could be fighting instead of another dracolich?

If we had 2 raids in this expansion I'd feel differently. But considering this is it, it needs to be bigger in scope. I'm sorry I have to be so negative, but this is how I honestly feel.

My suggestion and hope is that the raid is brought back to the drawing board and changed dramatically. I'm completely fine with this being delayed for a few months. Spend more time on it please. The devs can do better than this.

As far as things already in the raid I'd want changed - can we just drop the barrier in between Marilith spawns? Or make the crack clickable without having to hard target? It felt very finnicky to have to hard target to select the crack, click on the character portrait, and then click use, considering it's on a time limit. So many things in DDO requiring this process bugs me a lot in game generally, but especially when on a timer, it's not good.

I 100% support this, you guys either start over, or release it like it is, maybe cut some of the items out, and do another raid that deserve to be in a full expansion.
Next time don't spend that much time in the explorer area if you are going to sacrifice the raid development