U70 Preview 2: Performance Adjustments to Repeating+Dual Crossbow Styles

[SteelStar]

Hello, all!

Part of our focus in Update 70 has been tracking down performance issues, and in this preview we'll be looking at a change meant to address one of the more common player reports related to performance: Repeating and Dual Crossbow attack speed.

After investigation, even without running Endless Fusillade/No Holds Barred, the current rate of fire does seem to have negative impacts on the client, the server, and other nearby players when used by builds that are fully kitted out. Fusillade only exacerbates this, but it in and of itself is not the root of the issue (which is why simply adjusting Fusillade would not be a sufficient fix).

In this Preview, we've taken some measures to slow down both of these styles' attack and reload speeds. To try and maintain the DPS of these styles, we have balanced this change around a corresponding buff: We're planning to remove the current Doubleshot penalties (-66% on Repeating Crossbows, -50% on Dual Crossbows) with this change, allowing both to benefit from 100% of your Doubleshot score. In Update 49, we changed how Doubleshot works, making it much more performance-friendly for these styles to benefit from it now than it had been when they were originally developed.

We are definitely aware that changes to attack speed are difficult adjustments. Some players find a lot of fun in being able to shoot fast. However, the performance gains in such an adjustment are important game-wide, which is why we are looking into this change. Internally, the changes here make a significant difference in overall game performance, and we'll be looking to see if the same holds true during this preview. We strongly encourage those with Crossbow builds to try them out this Preview, as actual-play data will be the most important and actionable feedback on the subject.

While we know that such a change will reduce the rate at which these styles build up debuffs and other procs, they are already relatively efficient at applying them relative to other builds and will continue to be, though to a lesser degree, after this change. If needed, we will adjust before U70 or in followup patches to ensure these styles continue to be viable.

That all said, here is the list of changes present in this build:

• We have removed the -66% Doubleshot Modifier from Repeating Crossbows and the -50% Doubleshot Modifier from Dual Crossbows.
• The timing between each shot on Repeating Crossbows, as well as the timing in each volley before the Reload portion starts, has been increased slightly.
• The baseline (usually invisible to players) attack speed of Repeating and Dual Crossbows has been reduced slightly.
• Rapid Reload's bonus for Light Repeating Crossbows has been reduced from 65% to 35%
• Rapid Reload's bonus for Heavy Repeating Crossbows has been reduced from 70% to 40%.
• Rapid Reload's bonus for all Dual Crossbows has been reduced from 40% to 20%.
• The bonus to Reload Speed from Rapid Shot for Repeating and Dual Crossbows has been reduced.
• When running Endless Fusillade, Repeating Crossbows now have a slight pause between each 3-shot volley to allow the server room to breathe a little
• Inquisitive's T5 Paths now grant +15% Attack Speed and +15% Doubleshot (replacing the previous +30% Attack Speed).
• The Expanded Clip Epic Feat was a significant contributor to the rate of fire performance problems with Repeating Crossbows. It no longer adds an extra shot, and instead grants +33% stacking Doubleshot with Repeating Crossbows.

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EDIT:
Thank you for the feedback so far! Here's a few adjustments we're considering based on feedback here, on the official Discord, and on Cormyr itself:

Battle Engineer

• Shatter Defenses' damage changes to +10/30/50%
• Thunder-Shock Weapon's damage changes to +50%
• Core 2 (ML3): Infused Weapons now grants +5% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. (in addition to its current stuff)

inquisitive

• Core 2 (ML3): Hit the Streets now grants +5% Doubleshot. (in addition to its current stuff)
• Shoot First's damage changes to +40%
• Shoot Later's damage changes to +60%
• Shoot First and Shoot Later are now AOE Ranged Attacks and that shoot twice with Dual Crossbows

This should help alleviate some of the concerns that

• Some activated attacks don't feel as worth pushing due to the longer overall cycle - Upping their damage should help some
• Clearing trash is now slower - Again, upping the damage of existing AOEs and making some of the holdouts start being AOEs should help, though maybe not fill the entire gap
• Low level has little doubleshot in these builds - This adds two sources of 5% around level 3-4

 

[SteelStar]

(bumping this so it ends up in the new posts for people)

 

[Epicsoul]

I'm on board for adjustments as the lag bothers us Artificer players too. I am initially concerned about the power balance of course, so I'll be hopping on to test. One thing I will look at is doubleshot values in actual xbow trees.

 

[HighLordPudding]

interesting.

 

[Guntango]

Please confirm that you've tested dps output and it remains relatively similar after the apm adjustment.

 

[FaceDancer]

I'll have to try to test this out later tonight if I can (if it's open). I'm a little dense... So the ROF is being reduced, but is the double shot is increased to compensate?

I guess I would be concerned about repeaters and dual slingers essentially getting nerfed. I understand that ROF could be (very likely is) contributing to lag, I would just hope that if ROF is reduced, that X-bows are compensated for in some other fashion (DPS is maintained). If the change is balanced out, I wouldn't have any issue with it.

 

[Purr]

Feels like this move, couple with patience, seems to be geared to players making fewer but more damaging attacks. Not sure how well this bodes for the fun-ness of the game.

 

[woq]

On an initial glance, looks like using active abilities and total damage dealt will suffer significantly. Will definitely have to play with it on Lamannia.

Edit: this is not necessarily a bad thing and I could also be completely wrong as the doubleshot increase is significant, but even now outside fusillade using your active attacks can be slow due to reload times.

 

[Druzil]

Just to clarify this will have no impact on great crossbows then correct?

 

[Yeet]

Understandable changes. At first glance, it appears to math out.

Since crossbows are being adjusted, can Great Xbows get a pass? It's been an age since they've been viable. They could certainly use a bump to rate of fire, and more.

Endless Fusillade now has a pause between every three shots, meaning there are less shots fired for the duration of the skill, and fewer animations. and fewer total shots fired. This is a net loss in damage for E-Fussilade, despite the increased doubleshot. How about the same number of shots, spread out over a slightly longer period of time.

The difference could be made up by lengthening the time E-Fussilade is active by reducing its windup animation and extending how long the skill lasts by 1 second.

 

[Taleisin]

@SteelStar seems a couple of years ago when you asked about the hitch as you active EF. I’ve come to the conclusion in the time since that I would much rather get rid of the hitch/delay and have a shorter time of firing.

But, does that help this change as well? Sounds like it’s all slower so getting rid of the initial hitch would be awesome.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Dandonk]

I don't play ranged, like ever. I am really, really bad at it. But this seems at first glance to be a large hit to ranged DPS. But hopefully some good ranged players can check this out and see how it performs in practice.

Helping out with lag stuff is nice, though. Just be sure to balance out the DPS hit properly.

 

[Phoenicis]

procs/debuffs are gonna be hammered by this, 50% or more reductions in all the attack speed boosts are gonna be brutal.

 

[Ped Xing]

Please confirm that you've tested dps output and it remains relatively similar after the apm adjustment.

Tested.
LOL

 

[Positive thinking]

The new double shot increase is going to be awesome.

 

[SteelStar]

Please confirm that you've tested dps output and it remains relatively similar after the apm adjustment.

I have. It comes out slightly higher overall at the moment in a pure DPS race, though like anything, actual gameplay and builds make that measure more complex - Hence why we're looking closely at today's gameplay.

 

[Dvinesword]

I am not opposed to this adjustment in general terms but I feel Just looking at the changes that this will have an adverse affect on a dual crossbow build as you will not proc your stacking buffs and debuffs as often. Such things as observation, improved observation and diplomatic immunity from Inquisitive force point from EK, Double rainbow and stay from shiradi. It is well and good to increase the double shot chance but since we are lowering the number of shots we are lowering the the chance to proc all of these effects. This also does not consider non damaging hit effects such as paralyzing effects from shiradi and from weapons. Then there are the weapon effects, the crossbow I am using procs warped souls, Unleashed storm, glass shards, thorny crown cursed maelstrom as well as sovereign nightmares from feareater and the effect of the everstar. All of those things as well as what is in the trees will now proc less often and stack slower.

There are not firm numbers listed for all the changes so I don't know exactly how much slower the fire rate will be. I know I will lose 15% alacrity from the inquisitive tree and my bonus to reload speed will be cut in half from rapid reload. in addition we will have some unknown amount of speed lost from the changes to rapid shot and that the baseline attack speed has been lowered by some unknown amount. This has all been replaced by losing the doubleshot penalty and adding 15% doubleshot. to be honest this will increase my effective doubleshot by 41 to 72.

I will give it a try and see what it is like on the test server and see how much my dps goes down.

 

[EinarMal]

Is there still a cap of 100% on doubleshot?

If so then expanded clip is a potential big nerf if you are over 100%.

Also can we please get rid of EF windup to compensate for the pause?

 

[Howie_doohan]

I'd also put my vote in for looking at great crossbows too if possible. I'd play that in a heartbeat over repeaters but it takes someone smarter than me to offer good suggestions on what numbers to change. Thanks!

 

[shopach]

Can you please provide the numbers for all of these bullets?

• The timing between each shot on Repeating Crossbows, as well as the timing in each volley before the Reload portion starts, has been increased slightly. How much?
• The baseline (usually invisible to players) attack speed of Repeating and Dual Crossbows has been reduced slightly. How much?
• The bonus to Reload Speed from Rapid Shot for Repeating and Dual Crossbows has been reduced. How much?
• When running Endless Fusillade, Repeating Crossbows now have a slight pause between each 3-shot volley to allow the server room to breathe a little. How long?

It's fine if these numbers are small, but it's impossible to do any calculations to compare outcomes without the actual numbers.

In general I strongly disagree with changing game mechanics to solve performance problems. I think time would be far better spent tackling why this many requests is a problem for the server, i.e. what is actually happening under the hood and how can that be streamlined to make each request more performant. Obviously I don't know anything about your code base or network topography, but I don't think I've ever heard of another game changing its game mechanics to solve performance problems, but this is now several times you guys have done changes like this, and I think it's an alarming trend that suggests that you may not know how to actually fix the underlying problem.

All you are doing by reducing the number of attacks is kicking the can down the road. The road probably needs to be repaired.