U70 Preview 2: Performance Adjustments to Repeating+Dual Crossbow Styles

[bleach]

This isn’t accurate at all

Repeater damage has increased near cap but the rest of the game especially heroic has been nerfed

The attack speed is rediculous to play

Nonsense. They are still the most broken ranged build both in heroic and at cap. It's not even close.

The only ranged builds that come somewhat close to repeater dps at cap are doubleshot capped, or nearly. Meaning any future increase in doubleshot values will do nothing for them. Repeater builds on the other hand are well below doubleshot cap. So any increase in doubleshot values will only widen the gap in the near future.

I don't think the devs realized that when they gave repeaters full doubleshot.

 

[AustrianDeathMachine]

Nonsense. They are still the most broken ranged build both in heroic and at cap. It's not even close.

The only ranged builds that come somewhat close to repeater dps at cap are doubleshot capped, or nearly. Meaning any future increase in doubleshot values will do nothing for them. Repeater builds on the other hand are well below doubleshot cap. So any increase in doubleshot values will only widen the gap in the near future.

I don't think the devs realized that when they gave repeaters full doubleshot.

Doubleshot does not have a cap

 

[Tanis]

Nonsense. They are still the most broken ranged build both in heroic and at cap. It's not even close.

The only ranged builds that come somewhat close to repeater dps at cap are doubleshot capped, or nearly. Meaning any future increase in doubleshot values will do nothing for them. Repeater builds on the other hand are well below doubleshot cap. So any increase in doubleshot values will only widen the gap in the near future.

I don't think the devs realized that when they gave repeaters full doubleshot.

They are clearing quests slower than before due to the speed reduction that’s a nerf

Only after a certain amount of double shot does the DPS increase that’s close or cap or at

Has to be enough double shot to make up to the reduction

While they can put out big numbers it’s slow that’s the trade off

Soloing with one in heroics is painfully slow

 

[Phaedra]

They are clearing quests slower than before due to the speed reduction that’s a nerf

Only after a certain amount of double shot does the DPS increase that’s close or cap or at

If you can max doubleshot without giving up anything else, it pulls ahead of pre-nerf DPS on paper at ~23. Math

In practice, the difference is equivalent to losing one bolt out of 30 into the ether, or wasting a single bolt in 10 firing cycles on a dead mob, so any real gains start at 29 or higher with a 20% alacrity raid repeater.

 

[Lofen]

Had a chance to group with one in heroics, he was being chased by 5-6 mobs, and firing the (very) occasional shot at them, eventually killing one. I walked up, double cleaved, group gone.
I genuinely felt sorry for the guy.
I was reluctant to give crossbows a try after the change, and after seeing this, definitely removed them from consideration. Can't see how that is a good leveling experience, and I am not sure why this isn't a bigger part of the discussion, seeing how most of the game is about leveling.

 

[Tanis]

If you can max doubleshot without giving up anything else, it pulls ahead of pre-nerf DPS on paper at ~23. Math

In practice, the difference is equivalent to losing one bolt out of 30 into the ether, or wasting a single bolt in 10 firing cycles on a dead mob, so any real gains start at 29 or higher with a 20% alacrity raid repeater.

The math on damage doesn’t beat play testing

speed reduction slows soloing down purely by the waiting for the next shot

At cap it will be stronger and the damage looks like more in heroics but it’s still a nerf at many levels do to the speed

 

[Positive thinking]

Had a chance to group with one in heroics, he was being chased by 5-6 mobs, and firing the (very) occasional shot at them, eventually killing one. I walked up, double cleaved, group gone.
I genuinely felt sorry for the guy.
I was reluctant to give crossbows a try after the change, and after seeing this, definitely removed them from consideration. Can't see how that is a good leveling experience, and I am not sure why this isn't a bigger part of the discussion, seeing how most of the game is about leveling.

The discussion has already been had and ignored by SSG, most of the further discussions happen amongst circles of people in the game and the talk of the town is simply give up your vip and spend nothing, few of the people I know are even bothering with the cormyr server other than a little favor for extra DDO points as they dont plan to be vip for long.

Now there are the exceptions that in game talk on the other side in heroics about the adjustment being good for balance, but all can come to their own conclusions as to why players that arent playing a repeater build think its a good change.

 

[Bitss]

[] Repeater builds on the other hand are well below doubleshot cap. So any increase in doubleshot values will only widen the gap in the near future.

I don't think the devs realized that when they gave repeaters full doubleshot.

Bold mine; If true, I think Devs don't think. Repeating + Double Shot hit will break (lag) their hardware AND low-end User CPU with the calculations alone.

I very much doubt DDO is running Hardware with crystal chips and Fiber Optic connections because that's the setup that could handle it.

 

[Phaedra]

The math on damage doesn’t beat play testing

speed reduction slows soloing down purely by the waiting for the next shot

At cap it will be stronger and the damage looks like more in heroics but it’s still a nerf at many levels do to the speed

Bruh. I was agreeing with you.

 

[Phaedra]

Bold mine; If true, I think Devs don't think. Repeating + Double Shot hit will break (lag) their hardware AND low-end User CPU with the calculations alone.

I very much doubt DDO is running Hardware with crystal chips and Fiber Optic connections because that's the setup that could handle it.

Why would it break their hardware to do fewer calculations?
Old formula (damage)*((doubleshot*0.33)+100)/100)
New formula (damage)*((doubleshot+100)/100)

Wait, have you not played since U49?

 

[Bitss]

Why would it break their hardware to do fewer calculations?
Old formula (damage)*((doubleshot*0.33)+100)/100)
New formula (damage)*((doubleshot+100)/100)

Repeater + Doubleshot is fewer calculations? It's still 2 processes.

Where did you get that formula?

 

[Phaedra]

Repeater + Doubleshot is fewer calculations? .33<100

Are you an Alien?

The U49 doubleshot nerf turned it into a straight damage multiplier. You aren't firing extra bolts anymore. not multiplying the doubleshot amount by .33 is one fewer operation for the server to perform.

Also that math. Are you one of those people who thinks 1/3rd is smaller than 1/4?

 

[Phaedra]

No. You're missing the fact that I'm still supposed to be firing a repeater.

Then what does full doubleshot have to do with it?

Bold mine; If true, I think Devs don't think. Repeating + Double Shot hit will break (lag) their hardware AND low-end User CPU with the calculations alone.

I very much doubt DDO is running Hardware with crystal chips and Fiber Optic connections because that's the setup that could handle it.

 

[Bitss]

/I'm out and dun with devs that hide under common user names and/or trolls.

 

[Tanis]

Bruh. I was agreeing with you.

I realized that when I reread it later it was a hasty mistake on my part

 

[Bitss]

Then what does full doubleshot have to do with it?

IDK, you're the one with the formulas..

It's not fewer calc when it's 2 processes, repeater + double-shot, times 5 - one for each hit, repeater (3) + double-shot (2), assuming double shot fires each time. So what was that about math?

Now I kind'a regret not reading all 15 pages.

 

[Phaedra]

IDK, you're the one with the formulas..

It's not fewer calc when it's 2 processes, repeater + double-shot, times 5 - one for each hit, repeater (3) + double-shot (2), assuming double shot fires each time. So what was that about math?

Now I kind'a regret not reading all 15 pages.

A repeater only makes 3 attacks, no matter what your doubleshot rate. This has been true for more than 2 years. (Aside from the change to Extended Clip, removing the 4th shot in U70)

Update 49 changes:

• Before this change, Doubleshot gave you a chance to make multiple attacks. Now it allows you to do extra damage with a single attack. (This change was made to reduce server lag.)

 

[Bitss]

I'm under the impression they're both in use on any given toon, assuming you have both.

I've been playing for a long time. I don't keep up with changes -- never saw the 4th shot.

...as to the rest of my post? **We're @ U70, right? If an arti (Using a repeater) takes double-shot, what happens?

 

[Tanis]

IDK, you're the one with the formulas..

It's not fewer calc when it's 2 processes, repeater + double-shot, times 5 - one for each hit, repeater (3) + double-shot (2), assuming double shot fires each time. So what was that about math?

Now I kind'a regret not reading all 15 pages.

I'm under the impression they're both in use on any given toon, assuming you have both.

I've been playing for a long time. I don't keep up with changes -- never saw the 4th shot.

...as to the rest of my post? **We're @ U70

It’s still only 3 attacks it was and there was a double shot calc on each attack before

Once Repeaters could get 6 shots before shoushot change U49

Then before the recent expanded clip change repeater got 4 attacks it you took it

It’s hard to take anything other when you say you didn’t notice

 

[Bitss]

[]

It’s hard to take anything other when you say you didn’t notice

..didn't say "I didn't notice."