U70 Preview 2: Performance Adjustments to Repeating+Dual Crossbow Styles

[Leumas Reyemreggin]

There was definitely a nerf to repeaters in the attack speed

Buffs in damage didn’t make up for the slow attack speed

if u say so I have my Maths and game feelies and Im confident in dat

 

[Haramel]

With Ranger TWF, long ago, you were gonna get all the procs you wanted, then came the nerf in the name of lag!
Then with Bows, you had manyshot, 4 arrows at once, lots of procs! Then came the nerf, in the name of lag!
And now... well, you get the picture.

Two issues:

1. We've seen time and again how this is "supposed" to help with lag, but the lag is still here today. Adding Expanded Clip and then now removing it shows inconsistency. Are you fighting lag or boosting power? And what happens after *this* lag fix, when either you or another future dev adds power again?

2. There *HAS* to be some way to recoup procs. At the end of the day, I don't really care as much about the big DPS numbers, or the time to kill, but instead, it's the little things, the unique things, the flavor, the builds, uh, built to capitalize on procs. There MUST be some way to greatly increase to the procs to offset these number of attacks nerfs. I want a TWF that can't kill fast, but dabbles in magic, etc. So long as it can lock down crowd control with procs, etc. That was a horrible example, but you get the idea, why lock us into being on rails into only certain builds are viable, let us dream of weird things. Let a greatly increased proc rate be the dream deliver mechanic.

Everything in this game seems to impact performance, perhaps if there were fewer players in DDO the lag could be reduced? They already said that the main reason was the zerg and the alert generation, the lag continues, the lag always continues. An almost 20 year old game that maintains outdated technology to support a volume of information that tends to grow according to updates....... The 64bit server is already a great evolution. DDO for me is my favorite MMO and I hope it still has many years of prosperity. We know you have limited resources, but I hope there is better communication.

 

[John3000]

More proc = more calculations = more lag. It's why proc rate and DS was nerfedchanged 1st time, lol.

Sorry, must have missed the devs saying Proc rates are the root cause... Usually simple math number calculations (as i'd assume calculating bonus damage would be) are dirt cheap and low CPU overhead. Perhaps mob status procs (paralyze, debuffs, etc..) need a bit more cpu... but you already have weapon debuffs that proc effects or debuffs at 100% rates (such as the dread mantle).

However, calculating pathing of projectiles / missile fires + collision detection are probably very CPU expensive, which would make sense in regards the following dev statement :
"After investigation, even without running Endless Fusillade/No Holds Barred, the current rate of fire does seem to have negative impacts on the client, the server, and other nearby players when used by builds that are fully kitted out. Fusillade only exacerbates this, but it in and of itself is not the root of the issue (which is why simply adjusting Fusillade would not be a sufficient fix)."

So is it :
a) damage calculations+said procs that are the greater cause of lag ?
Or
b) is it the projectile / missile pathing from A to B + collision detection and all the other stuff that happens outside of damage calcs that are the greater cause of lag generation ?

That is the question....

Knowing this would help in finding the best lag reducing solution.

Cheers

 

[rabidfox]

The slower attack speed feel worse when ammo vanishes. Vanishing ammo always sucks, especially when popping an active attack but now we're firing less attacks to offset it. Obviously it's outside the scope of this update but I'd love it if something could be done about it (I had hoped it'd be better on the 64-bit servers but nope).

https://imgur.com/a/GJDQ4Gt

I didn't record some of the really bad examples, but there's a couple in this clip. It was really obvious when firing into an entire pack of mobs (vs this clip where some of it is vs a single target).

 

[John3000]

its certainly complicated.... which explains why your idea isnt entirely thought thru
Attack speed does Nothing during Endless fussilade

Others commented on the problems of this

good thing you arent a dev a lot of people seem and do but Not many Know

ouch... No need to fussilade or shoot others down in the forums. I guess you're the "shoot first" and "ask questions later" Inquisitive type. Perhaps a monk life or two would help you to find your inner peace

cheers

 

[Leumas Reyemreggin]

ouch... No need to fussilade or shoot others down in the forums. I guess you're the "shoot first" and "ask questions later" Inquisitive type. Perhaps a monk life or two would help you to find your inner peace

cheers

if u cant deal with a discussion dont enter it

 

[Positive thinking]

Question for someone that bothers to download the test client?

On a 1st level artificer how many shots are shot in a minute on the live server versus on the test server, this is assuming using a first life freshly made arti with no extra speed feats other than those granted freely.

People keep using the word clunky, so wondering what exactly clunky means, lol, is it as bad as low level first life rangers?

I was excited about the double shot adjustment but it sound like it is at the expense of any enjoyment left in this form of build(which was already on its last legs) and the meta will have to change for ranged damage.

 

[rabidfox]

Question for someone that bothers to download the test client?

On a 1st level artificer how many boots are shot in a minute on the live server versus on the test server, this is assuming using a first life freshly made arti with no extra speed feats other than those granted freely.

People keep using the word clunky, so wondering what exactly clunky means, lol, is it as bad as low level first life rangers?

I was excited about the double shot adjustment but it sound like it is at the expense of any enjoyment left in this form of build(which was already on its last legs) and the meta will have to change for ranged damage.

Double shot is a back loaded stat. On a fresh lvl 4, the reduced reload and attack speed was quite noticable vs what it's like on live.

 

[Positive thinking]

Double shot is a back loaded stat. On a fresh lvl 4, the reduced reload and attack speed was quite noticable vs what it's like on live.

Sounds like the arti is dead for low level then and class levels are better spent elsewhere now.

 

[FaceDancer]

I haven't messed with a low level build, but that's a good point. Will check it later if it's open still... Low level (as it has been pointed out earlier by a few peeps) has traditionally been pretty comfy with repeater based toons, so I'd be curious to see if the curve has changed much.

 

[John3000]

if u cant deal with a discussion dont enter it

Lol, ok, whatever. Seems you have the word "discussion" confused with another word.

But everyone has bad days or issues, so I still wish you the best :- )

I'll repost you the initial OP dev statement, in case you missed it :
"After investigation, even without running Endless Fusillade/No Holds Barred, the current rate of fire does seem to have negative impacts on the client, the server, and other nearby players when used by builds that are fully kitted out. Fusillade only exacerbates this, but it in and of itself is not the root of the issue (which is why simply adjusting Fusillade would not be a sufficient fix)."

The devs (not me) clearly point toward attack speed + rate of fire as the root problem... and not "endless fussilade".

Cheers

 

[mcrait]

Thank you for the feedback so far! Here's a few adjustments we're considering based on feedback here, on the official Discord, and on Cormyr itself so far:

Battle Engineer

• Shatter Defenses' damage changes to +10/30/50%
• Thunder-Shock Weapon's damage changes to +50%
• Core 2 (ML3): Infused Weapons now grants +5% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. (in addition to its current stuff)

inquisitive

• Core 2 (ML3): Hit the Streets now grants +5% Doubleshot. (in addition to its current stuff)
• Shoot First's damage changes to +40%
• Shoot Later's damage changes to +60%
• Shoot First and Shoot Later are now AOE Ranged Attacks and that shoot twice with Dual Crossbows

This should help alleviate some of the concerns that

• Some activated attacks don't feel as worth pushing due to the longer overall cycle - Upping their damage should help some
• Clearing trash is now slower - Again, upping the damage of existing AOEs and making some of the holdouts start being AOEs should help, though maybe not fill the entire gap
• Low level has little doubleshot in these builds - This adds two sources of 5% around level 3-4

While at it can you please fix the augments not working on homunculus, druid and ranger pets? You managed to introduce dark hunter while that bug already existed.

 

[saekee]

I suspect that this will hurt dps in the lower levels and boost it in the upper ones.

As someone said above, please remove the 3s pause when activating EF.

 

[Thar]

What do you mean the damage is bleh? I'm playing a Dark Hunter-Shiradi bow user, and I am out DPSing my partner who is playing a H-Elf Lightning Cleric.

Manyshot, Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot all give bows extra damage over other ranged weapons.

then your friend's cleric isn't built right. the end game damage on bows is less than mediocre. The leveling damage on bows is horrible considering the attach rate. you can go and make a sandwich in between shots.

 

[Thar]

I suspect that this will hurt dps in the lower levels and boost it in the upper ones.

As someone said above, please remove the 3s pause when activating EF.

likely the reverse as less procs and other on hit effects like debuffs with lower attack speed.

 

[Leumas Reyemreggin]

Lol, ok, whatever. Seems you have the word "discussion" confused with another word.

But everyone has bad days or issues, so I still wish you the best :- )

I'll repost you the initial OP dev statement, in case you missed it :
"After investigation, even without running Endless Fusillade/No Holds Barred, the current rate of fire does seem to have negative impacts on the client, the server, and other nearby players when used by builds that are fully kitted out. Fusillade only exacerbates this, but it in and of itself is not the root of the issue (which is why simply adjusting Fusillade would not be a sufficient fix)."

The devs (not me) clearly point toward attack speed + rate of fire as the root problem... and not "endless fussilade".

Cheers

what are you trying to tell me?
and exacerbates is a sweet word if that means going from Laggy to outright freeze once someone Pops EF

the Main point was that Simply halfing attack speed and just doubling damage doesnt work.... when your goal is that only Server burden is to be reduced while the actual damage doesnt change....

the fact that u think I'd argue against less Bolts gives me 2 possible explainations either
A) I should be offended since u basically insinuate im stupid OR
B) you might wanna retake a few classes when it comes to reading capabilities and connecting dots

 

[Crolug]

Oh wow, I will definitely test this one out. I have a bad feeling about this....

 

[Baddie]

Another playstyle bites the dust, after so much time and $$ invested. Seen it too many times in the past 18 years. Seems the game is dying...

 

[Benihina]

The game is singing its last verses with :

- Nerfs to X-bow builds
- Cormyr which is reserve for VIP only , have to start from scratch and no options for transferring existing characters.
- Too many restrictions to further dividing the already very small player base which is already divided to smaller servers.

Looks like SSG is working very hard to kill DDO

 

[Baddie]

The game is singing its last verses with :

- Nerfs to X-bow builds
- Cormyr which is reserve for VIP only , have to start from scratch and no options for transferring existing characters.
- Too many restrictions to further dividing the already very small player base which is already divided to smaller servers.

Looks like SSG is working very hard to kill DDO

Even with toon transfers, Cormyr would be a no-mule server, which is a huge hit for long time playing&paying players who have got tons of all kinds of stuff.